Beastmass 3: Dragon Hunt


Advice

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Kayerloth wrote:
Which spell? Mage's Private Sanctum is in the PF CRB. 3.5 had the same spell but it was called Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum (and existed prior in both 3.0 and late in 2.0 and the 3.5SRD also converted it to Mage's rather than Mordenkainen's)

I was misplacing spell facts, but Mage's Private Sanctum was the spell I was referring to. You are correct.


Kayerloth wrote:
Slightly off topic: We are all assuming the Walls of Force making up his giant Forcecube of a lair aren't destroyed by the lava, correct? Should would be? Even subtracting its full hardness is it still not taking some 40 hp damage per round from being submerged (are we taking the weapons and supernatural text a bit too far if we consider the lava to be neither)? This tactic would have worked in earlier editions because the Wall of Force had neither hardness nor hit points to worry about, it was immune to all damage, PF changed this. (sorry andreww but it just occurred to me that this might be an issue with the encounter design at least within PF rules)

That is an excellent point and one that I had not considered. Hmm, that probably means he has to change his set up a bit. He probably switches his sanctum to a permanent widened Prismatic Sphere. Staff of the Master allows him to widen it. That may give the Cave Druid a bit more of an issue but those using Disjunction are not affected.


Shasf wrote:

@Kayerloth

I noticed that the OP has used a spell from D&D 3.5 Mage's Private Sanctum, I think it is in the spell compendium and DM fiat.

Though I am curious about using called and summoned creatures, if that disqualifies the contestants on the clause of "doing it alone".

p.s. @OP

How do magic and psionics interact in your challenge?

Private Sanctum

Called and Summoned creatures are totally valid.

I am wholly unfamiliar with psionics but as they are all 3rd party they don't come into things. PF only material.


andreww wrote:

*snip*

I am wholly unfamiliar with psionics but as they are all 3rd party they don't come into things. PF only material.

I shall assume then that the rules for building a challenger are the same as it was in

Beastmass 1
beastmass 1:
So here is my challenge: can any of you build a 20th level character of any class, race and archetype combo to triumph over these seven beasts with only one rest period?

Builds must be 20 point buy but can include any feat, spell, item, trait etc from anything published by Paizo.

Builds should be as descriptively full as possible as per the linked example.

These are the fight rules regarding dice rolls

Quote:
Fight Rules : no one flees for good - the pride of classdom and the Bestiary are at stake. Single d20s always result in 10, multiple d20s (like full attacks) go 10-11-9, 10-9-11, and repeat. Threats kick in when the percentages from hits (not misses) build up to 60% within or over rounds (eg. 12 basic /20x2 hits would offer one threat and confirmation). Strictly mathematically speaking, multiple 20x2 threats don’t produce exact 5% threat chances, apparently, but for a game guide I reckon a flat 5% per pip will do. If there’s a decisive close call I’ll flag it. Rough but simple.
End Quote

or can we have custom magic items and races?


andreww wrote:
He probably switches his sanctum to a permanent widened Prismatic Sphere. Staff of the Master allows him to widen it. That may give the Cave Druid a bit more of an issue but those using Disjunction are not affected.

Actually, I'm not seeing how that gives the cave druid an issue. The bottom half of the sphere is blocked by the floor, and the 6th layer removes the houseruled wall of force. So there isn't anything in the way of the earth gliding ooze.

Any idea what the dc is going to be in the situation i presented earlier?

Also still waiting on that build you mentioned that can beat this.

Also curious if he is holding the rod of absorption or the staff of the master necromancer when the encounter begins.

Edit: Also, wouldn't the 7th layer remove all of the lava, given enough time?


I would rule that the 7th layer does not destroy the lava and more then a dome under the ocean would drain the ocean or that air is destroyed if cast outside. I do not think that it would destroy anything unless it is actually pushed into it.

Forbiddance prevents teleport but can be ignored by spellbane. I would trade gate for it. The duration is long enough that it can be kept always on. PCs could use this to freely teleport in the lair.

A wizard who cast spell bane and targets wall of force, prismatic sphere, forbiddance, and private sanctum is immune to all the magical protections in the lair.

A second casting that targets antimagic zone, dispel magic, greater dispel magic and mage's disjuntion will make the first effect undispellable.

A third casting should target teleport, dimdoor, plane shift, and limited wish. This negates any spell he can cast to move.

Form of the dragon 3 grants fire immunity. This can probably be done with a lower level effect but it rubs his nose in so I like it.

Freedom of movement lets you move through the lava.

Ride the waves grants a swim speed.

UMD a bead of karma, orange ioun stone, varsian tattoo (universal), gifted adept (wish), and spell specialization (wish) will add +9 to the caster level of any spell cast with wish.
Spell resistance cast through limited wish make grant SR 41 witch makes the bearer immune to all spells cast by any creature in the encounter.

Wish to cast control winds will remove the smoke in a 40 plane around you but the creatures high up will be still be hidden by it.

Wish invisibility purge will strip the dragon of that defense any where within 145 feet.

Contingency plus emergency force sphere grants nice physical protection.

Mind blank keeps the dragon from being able to divine what I am doing.

Assume an 8th level slot is always in use to keep mind blank going.

End of Day 1: Spellbane x3 as above and contingent emergency force sphere triggered to activate if dragon about to attack me physically.

Day 2. Cast all of the above spell except to deal with everything in the lair. The spell resistance has the shortest duration at 29 min.

The wind speeds prevent archer and Eyrines can not fly in the area at all. The Vavakia can teleport into the area and remain in place against the winds but the demon only has 35 percent chance of being able to hover near until its next turn and it will need to make that check again if it going to full attack.

In order to use their breath weapon or physical attacks they will teleport into range. This grants the wizard a an action against them. Banishment should be able deal with both of the them at the same time if they both attack at the same time. Better have several memorized just is case.

3 9th level spell slots have been used on wish plus several lower level ones. A 20th level wizard will have either 2 or 3 left depending on his int.

So far only 3 feats have been used and very small amount of WBL to increase cast level has been used. The dragon's spells and breath weapons have been made useless. The contingent force sphere will protect against a physical attack.

With Elf plus 2 more feats gets one close plus the caster level items gets the caster level checks on SR up to a 31. This enough that the banishment is not a roll and the dragon only requires a 2 to cast through.

Once the dragon attacks and you know where he is you could time stop and prep a several casting of dazing ball lightning or disjoin the area and all spell effect on the dragon. No more contingent teleport. If the rod of absorption is still is functioning a quickend dispel magic from 25 level caster suppresses it.

After disjuction you could gate in a an angle to beat the dragon senseless

Since he can not flee by magic while close to you or at once disjoined a wall spell might be in order over the entrance.

A couple of solars should do the trick. A greater quicken rod get them here in 1 round.

Several feats remain and much money.


Super dazing ball lightning as computed by me:
Feats (needs ordering):
1 Heighten spell
1 Dazing spell
3 Spell Perfection
5 Spell focus
7 greater spell focus
9 spell penetration
11 greater spell penetration
13 varisian tattoo (evocation)
15 spontaneous metafocus
17 persistant
19 eldritch heritage (arcane and a familiar)
S7 Improved Initiative
S13 Toughness
S19 Quicken spell

Magic items of note are
prayer beads (karma) using UMD
orange prism
I need a quicken rod in hand for the disjunction, so no persistent rod.
(I need to see if there are others)

Assuming character level 20 and a cha stat of 20+5lvl+5book+6headband=36
caster level is 20+2(feats)+5magic=27
sr check is 27(clvl)+8(feats)=35
SR wins rolling not 1 for both critters

Save would be 10+4(slvl)+3(heighten)+13(stat)+4(feats)= DC 34. They only save on a roll of 20. 5 balls x 2 saves per ball.

So 4 saves from the dragon, 6 from the planetar in the first round. I'd put 3 on the planetar just in case the orb damage is not enough to overcome its electricity resistance.

Odds of success are still close to 99% of daze locking both.

I missed the contingency, so I think I would go with an opener of a quickened time stop in the surprise round and disjunction on the force wall. Then I would spend 1-2 rounds dropping disjunctions and greater dispel magic on the dragon, prismatic sphere, and planatar to get rid of contingencies and magic items. On the third round, I'd start casting ball lightnings. When time resumes, I would hope to win initiative or survive the initial pummeling, and then cast or move the precast lightning balls to the two enemies while the chamber floods with lava.
Frightful presense might be a good buff to cast during the time stop as well. It may make heightening the dazing balls to level 9 unnecessary.

I would still keep the draconic bloodline for blindsense, flight, and fire immunity that can't be dispelled.


While you stop the time, the dragon (and the planetar) is untouchable.
Nice build, mine has some differences:
40 at intelligence (being a wizard). Is a aasimar (18 stat, +2 racial (periblooded), +2 alternate racial (#40), +2 age, +5 levels, +5 wishes, +6 headband)
Uses groomblind bolts instead of ball lightning (more metamagic).
I start with a disjunction and a quickened, dazing, focused, heightened, piercing, persistent, disruptive groomblind bolts.

I know, it's a level 15 spell, but let me explain.
Quickened-> +4, but comes from wand.
Dazing-> +2
Focused-> +1
Heightened-> +1
Piercing-> +1
Persistent-> +2
Disruptive-> +1
Spell-> 3

Mh, still level 11...

Eureka! Two different traits!
Magical Lineage: Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell’s final adjusted level. (Magic)
Metamagic Mastery: When you use the chosen spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would. (Regional, needs to be 3rd level spell or lower).

Bypassing SR: +20 caster +1 (ioun stone) + 4 (spell penetration feats) +5 (metamagic) + 4 (Prayer beads (karma)(I haven't saw that, how nice :D) = +34
DC: 10 (base) + 15 (stat) + 4 (spell focus, greater, spell perfection), +4 (level, metamagic) +2 (greater eldritch heritage, arcane) +2 (focused metamagic feat) = 37
Dragon saves on a 13, supposing nothing is suppressed. But needs 4 saves (two bolts and two saves each).
Angel fails (not on a double 20) (one bolt).

I actually ignore earth and stone with any spell, but normal senses are blocked (Earth school gift :D). I see him with True Seeing (mine is not blocked by rock and earth). I hit the dragon (at touch AC) while he cannot find me at all (mind blank and -350 malus on perception (I'll be 35 foot under him)). Contingencies and buffs dispelled by disjunction, daze locked. Even supposing that he saves 4 times, he will have a hard time at finding me, just for the surprise.
If dazed, I hit him with a reach calcific touch until he turns to stone, then I reach teleport away with a (helpless) statue. I'll have time for killing/selling/looking/whatever him.
If not, I cast a dimensional anchor, followed by another quickened, dazing, focused, heightened, piercing, persistent, disruptive groomblind bolts.
Repeat until he fails, or I teleport out of trouble!

I'll post the entire build whenever I can.


I see lots of spellcasters, but if calling and summoning creatures are valid, and anything else of Pathfinder is also valid.

Can I bring in more cheese, let's say along the lines of leadership, and I mean just abuse the snot out of it.

Meet Legion, the Noble Scion of Everything.
For giggles, let's say Legion is has a base class of Summoner 10, with the variant of Master Summoner in play.

Next we have Legion take 10 levels of Noble Scion, because he spent 5k gold to gain a title in Sargava.

So we have Summoner (Master Summoner) 10/Noble Scion 10, with a 20th level cohort and followers to boot. And we can say said cohort is the same build. Hence, we now have Legion.

Technically Legion has no party and is "alone" as per OPs suggested, officially he or she, or any other gender you please, is limitless as far as mechanics are concerned.

I am working on specifics, but currently I went cheddar for the race.

Azlanti Human with two templates: Young and Advanced.

I am currently fleshing out the build, but I think the Dragon may succumb to exhaustion and fatigue from the limitless assault being forced into mass combat.


Here is Legion with stats, not finished because I'm just mostly not using much of it to do the challenge, just overwhelming numbers.

Legion:
Legion
Male Azlanti Young Advanced Human Summoner (Master Summoner) 5/Noble Scion 10/Summoner (Master Summoner) 5
N Small Humanoid (Augmented, Human)

Hero Points 3
Init +9; Senses Perception +0

Defense

AC 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10 (+0 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 113 (5d8+10d8+5d8+20); life link
Fort +6 Ref +9 Will +15

Offense

Speed 30 ft (6 squares); maker’s call 1/day, transposition
Melee
Ranged
SA summoning mastery (summon monster V) 5+cha mod/day, dilettante studies (warrior; +2 atk and +2 dmg)
Summoner Spells (cl 10th); dilettante studies (scholar; +2 lvls for spells per day)
4 (3/day) –[i] 2
3 (4/day) –[i] 4
2 (5/day) –[i] 5
1 (5/day) –[i] 5
0 (at will) –[i] 6

Statistics

Str 9 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 23 Wis 16 Cha 28
Base Atk +14 CMB +12 CMD 25
Feats Noble Scion (of War), 1b, augment summoning, superior summons, 5, leadership, 7, 9, 9b, 11, 11b, 13, 13b, 15, 17, 19
Traits
Skills Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Kn (nobility) +5, Sense Motive +2; 69 skill points, 130 skill points
Languages Common, Azlanti, 6, 6
SQ lesser eidolon, summoning mastery, life link, maker’s call, transposition, aspect (spend up to 2 evolution points on self), affluent, greater leadership, aristocratic erudition, prestigious influence, regional expertise, dilettante studies (scholar [2], warrior [2]), servitor, peerless patrician
Combat Gear 875,000gp

Leadership Score and Followers
Score: 34
Followers:
6th: 2
5th: 2
4th: 4
3rd: 7
2nd: 13
1st: 135


bfobar wrote:
Save would be 10+4(slvl)+3(heighten)+13(stat)+4(feats)= DC 34. They only save on a roll of 20. 5 balls x 2 saves per ball.

Be of old age for +2 CHA, and make a profane pact with a lilitu for +4 CHA (before you use Flesh to Stone and then shatter it into as many pieces as possible). That will net you another +3 to the save DC, just to be safe (and it's a minimal resource expenditure to add them).


Basically what I'm getting from this is two things:
1) Spellbane is ... going to need some hashing out in any campaign where I am the GM.
2) Not exactly a news flash but Dazing Spell is going to be problematic in any high level campaign particularly those with more or less solitary bosses. Not sure if this is an issue with Dazing Spell or the ability to boost save DC's to levels that make dragons (or Solars) cringe and hope for nat 20's (or both).

@Shasf (and others putting forth similar ideas)
Legion(s), Armies, Hordes etc. need to be able to deal with frightful presence (360 ft., DC 34) Particularly those portions 4 HD and under or suddenly Legion is 4 guys unless I'm missing something. Never mind all the rest (AC, DR, Greater Invisibility, 1000+ ft range on Chain Lightning etc.) Great Wyrm's more or less laugh at large armies with masses of low HD foes. Panic the front line and watch it trample the rear, turn a few hundred square feet to lava/magma under them while burning their bodies to largely permanent death (True Resurrection to bring back) etc., etc.. Any method for dealing with Frightful Presence?


Kayerloth wrote:

*snip*

@Shasf (and others putting forth similar ideas)
Legion(s), Armies, Hordes etc. need to be able to deal with frightful presence (360 ft., DC 34) Particularly those portions 4 HD and under or suddenly Legion is 4 guys unless I'm missing something. Never mind all the rest (AC, DR, Greater Invisibility, 1000+ ft range on Chain Lightning etc.) Great Wyrm's more or less laugh at large armies with masses of low HD foes. Panic the front line and watch it trample the rear, turn a few hundred square feet to lava/magma under them while burning their bodies to largely permanent death (True Resurrection to bring back) etc., etc.. Any method for dealing with Frightful Presence?

Legion comes together at level 15 for the limitless effect from the Noble Scion. Specifically its greater leadership ability.

Having a cohort of up to the same levels as the PC makes this possible because you can have class X 5/Noble Scion 10/??? 5, you can mix and match any and all classes into Legion.

I was thinking of giving each cohort and the pc a permanent reduce person spell so you can sardine more per square.

For Fear, some of Legion are Paladins using their 9th level feat for Fearless Aura. Sheer numbers of magical weapons and attack rolls will guarantee hits so DR and AC are meaningless, AC mostly because you can have all the summoners summon lantern archons who can hit a touch ac of I think I saw 10 on the dragon. so a roll of 7 or higher. *edit* While normally the paladin would only have a caster level of 6, with the magical knack, they now have a caster level 8 and take the precocious spell-caster trait. So their caster level will be 9 at level 7 for the purpose of meeting the prerequisite of Fearless Aura.*/edit*

Any spell of 5th level or lower is available to Legion, and they have access to summons/calls/binds for creatures who can detect invisible creatures or creatures that can cast dispel magic at will.

With access to a limitless selection of feats, classes, skills, traits and magic items; Legion cannot die for death is cheap, Breath of Life with a trait to modify meta-magic, you can make it a close range spell. Raise dead, animate dead (Juju mystery makes them neutral and not evil).


Okay Fear/Frightful Presence dealt with (enough to proceed anyway). Incendis may get some tasty Paladin flesh to rend and eat :p

How does the Legion target him?
He's under the effects of both Invisibility/Greater Invisibility and Mind Blank which makes See Invisibility, True Seeing, Arcane Sight, etc. ineffective anytime he enters combat (or thinks it might be imminent). I'm assuming the Legion is not meeting him within his cavern and lair system but in the great outdoors somewhere?
But as of the moment how do you even pick which square(s) he might be in followed by how to communicate that quickly and efficiently enough to relay it to 100+ ranged attackers to generate the effect of "so DR and AC are meaningless" from massed volley fire. Especially given, if outdoors, he's airborne a few hundred feet up in constant motion (though landing does present some difficulties given he'll set most things on fire when he lands with his Fire Aura).


If Incendis kills a lot of cohorts, you character will suffer a lot of penalties at Leadership. Maybe you'll find yourself alone.


I think there was a problem with your original setup, because prismatic sphere is a 10 ft radius, How is he fitting all his stuff in there? especially with one large creature in there


The prismatic sphere is enlarged. 20 ft radius.


Kayerloth wrote:

Okay Fear/Frightful Presence dealt with (enough to proceed anyway). Incendis may get some tasty Paladin flesh to rend and eat :p

How does the Legion target him?
He's under the effects of both Invisibility/Greater Invisibility and Mind Blank which makes See Invisibility, True Seeing, Arcane Sight, etc. ineffective anytime he enters combat (or thinks it might be imminent). I'm assuming the Legion is not meeting him within his cavern and lair system but in the great outdoors somewhere?
But as of the moment how do you even pick which square(s) he might be in followed by how to communicate that quickly and efficiently enough to relay it to 100+ ranged attackers to generate the effect of "so DR and AC are meaningless" from massed volley fire. Especially given, if outdoors, he's airborne a few hundred feet up in constant motion (though landing does present some difficulties given he'll set most things on fire when he lands with his Fire Aura).

With the spells, abilities, and creatures at Legion's disposal, finding information about the dragon and items in its possession come down to skill checks.

Knowing that the Dragon is a Noble scion, Knowledge (Nobility) is handy, as is history and arcana. Kn (nobility) gives us access to his lineage, items of note, crest and so forth. Kn (arcana) for abilities of a standard dragon. Kn (history) for how the dragon may have acted in the past and gives us insight into other changes of the dragons normal stat block. With spellcraft we can discern what spells give him and us the advantages and disadvantages of any battle we come to do.

With this knowledge at their disposal, Legion also knows the location of the lair and has a two to three round period of time of getting information through divination magic about the dragon. This window of time comes from the fact the dragon has to spend a standard action to either lower his SR to cast spells on him or risk a 60% of losing any spell he casts on himself.

So Legion would confront the dragon in its lair, using summoned and called creatures to teleport in. At this point it has been noted that Legion is vast and large and getting messages across the battlefield would be trouble some. But there are flag signals and telepathy options for this.

The teleported called and summoned creatures would harry the dragon with dispel attempts, there would be no chance of error on the teleport thanks to the assumed knowledge that we have already seen the inside of the lair and are fresh, disabling any traps and foes encountered.


andreww 1st thread:
So, we start off by assuming you know where the dragon lairs however entrance to his chamber by teleportation is blocked and information about him cannot be obtained by divinations spells. I assume you have dealt with or avoided any traps or guardians on the way and are fresh to confront him. If he has any reason to suspect combat may be imminent then he casts the following spells, in this order: Greater Heroism, Resist Energy (cold), Spell Turning, Shapechange, Shield, Mirror Image, Displacement, Haste, Resist Energy (rest). He is not averse to quickening some if needed or even casting Time Stop to get a number of them up and running as early as possible. He does not spend time buffing if confronted by a serious immediate threat but will try and get some up with quicken spell. He is not above retreating to heal and/or buff, generally to his Prismatic Sphere. He assumes anyone willing and able to confront him in his sanctum is dangerous. He normally avoids the use of anti-magic field as it cannot completely protect him given its size. He can Widen it if necessary but also avoids this unless it is obviously needed due to the impact on his other stats.

If the dragon escapes by teleporting away or plane shifting then Legion would destroy the lair and free or kill any servants remaining. This would cause the dragon a great loss.

So in short, Legion exploits the minimum of a two round window in the dragon's daily routine to attack and keep him occupied using expendable resources and causing the dragon no end of trouble.

For the outdoor scenario, the dragon would have to deal with a constant shell of control weather thanks to the witches in Legion. The Outline of a colossal dragon would be easy to spot in rain, even a light one. Knowing the location of the dragon in this sense, any magical protection the dragon has would be stripped away from range with dispel magic, during volleys of ranged attacks and being engaged from all sides.

*edit* I should also mention that locate object still works on finding the dragon, just in a roundabout way. Unless I missed something about mind blank protecting the creature's objects.

Lantern Lodge

Here's the rough draft Frostbite Magus ravaging the dragon:

Frostbite Kensai:

Base Stats: Str: 10 Dex:15 Con: 12(10) Int: 18(20) Wis: 8(10) Cha:7
(I'm assuming he's reached venerable age during his adventuring, he's come out of retirement to rid the land of this pestilence)

(Spells gained from: Samsaran Ability
Resis Energy (Wizard 2)
Echolocation (Alchemist 4)
Greater Age Resistance (Alchemist 5)
Dance of a Thousand Cuts (Bard 6)
Contingency (Wizard 6)
Freedom of Movement (Bard 4))

Traits, Feats and Arcana
0. Magical Lineage: Shocking Grasp
0. Bruising Intellect
1. *Weapon Focus
1. Weapon Finesse
3. Enforcer
3A Arcane Accuracy
5. Rime Spell
5. Intensified Spell
6A Familiar
7. Improved Familiar
9. Critical Focus
11. Empower Spell
11. Bleeding Critical
12A Accurate Strike
13. Dazzling Display
15. Shatter Defenses
15A Quicken Arcana
17. Staggering Critical
17. Critical Mastery
18A Bane
19. Weapon Specialization
*Granted by a class

Gear:
Weapons:
Normal
+1 Agile, Keen, Cruel, Merciful, Wakishazi
Anti Caster
+1 Greater Dispelling, Cruel, Merciful, Agile Wakishazi
"The Rock"
+1 Impervious Spell Storing Anchoring Wakizhasi (With GMW and reinforce arnaments on it, giving it hardness in the 80's and over 100 HP. It also has Dimension Anchor placed in it, courtesy of the local summoner)

Armor:
+5 Greater Shadow,
Greater Energy Resistence Fire,
Determination, Silken Ceremonial Robe: 154,750

Other Gear
+6 dex/con belt 90,000
Otherworldly Kimono 67,000
Sandals of Quick Reaction 4,000
Crown of Conquests 24,600
+6 int/wis 90,000
Amulet Natural armor +5 50,000
Ring of Protection +5 50,000
polymorphic pouch 5,000
gloves of storing 5,000
Extend Metmagic 3,000
mid Extend metamagic 11,000
Dazing Metamagic 28,000

wands and scrolls
Truestrike 750
Shield 750
Mage Armor 750
Rest Eternal Scrolls 4
Dimensional Anchor Scrolls 4

Used Items:
Tome +4 of Intelligence 110,000
Manual +4 Dexterity 110,000

Buffs Available:
Dance of 1000 cuts 1rd/lvl
Displacement 1rd/lvl
Bull's Strength 1min/lvl
Mirror Image 1min/lvl
Shield 1min/lvl
Elemental Body 1min/lvl
Arcane Sight 1min/lvl
Elemental Body (fire elemental) 1min/lvl
Resist Energy: All 10 min/lvl
Freedom of Movement 10 min/lvl
Echolocation 10 min/lvl
Stoneskin 1hour/lvl
Greater Age Resistence 24 hours

Fully Buffed:
Str: 14 Dex:30 Con: 18 Int: 35 Wis: 19 Cha: 10
HP: 183 AC: 60 Saves: 22, 22, 22 DR: 10, Adamentium
Movement: Fly: 90 ft/rd
43/43/43/38/33 (using arcane accuracy)
Each hit deals: 1d8 + 5d6 + 36 non-lethal damage
If flat-footed: 1d8 + d6 + 48 non-lethal damage
Effects added onto enemy:
Auto fatigued
Auto entangled
36 +1d20 versus 10 + HD + Wisdom modifier to shaken
If successfully shaken, sickened
If successfully shaken, on second hit flat footed
DC 22 to daze (hardly will happen, but you got 20 attempts)

On a critical hit:
36 +1d20 versus 10 + HD + Wisdom modifier to frighten
2d6 bleed damage, stacks
staggered

Naturally, Winstern knows he's found the Dragon's lair. He comes prepared to with arcane sight up, revealing the alarm, which a simple dispel magic will handle.

He then refreshes his Elemental Body spell (He chooses the form of a Fire Elemental), and proceeds to buff himself with everything he can. He also casts transformation and elemental body on his familiar, just to have as a distraction (naturally, he doesn’t tell his poor pseudo dragon this). In addition to buffs, he prepares his weapon. He knows the dragon casts a lot of spells, so he prepares his anti-caster weapon, creating a +1 Greater Dispelling, Cruel, Merciful, Agile, keen, Icy Burst, Corrosive Wakishazi. He also prepares his coveted Anchoring Weapon, “The Rock” by casting Reinforce Armaments. Finally, he uses his kimono on a bought animal of some sort, such as a rat, granting +2 to saves and CL checks.

He starts combat with a surprise round, flying 90 feet towards the dragon. If he hasn’t reached him, he double moves (due to sandals of quick reaction) to directly adjacent to the dragon. Even on a 20, the dragon goes last, and is flat footed.

The first full round of combat, the magus uses his Accurate Strike feat. Since the Dragon’s touch AC is 10, he automatically lands every hit, except on a 1. He casts frostbite, and hits the dragon with the anchoring weapon. The dragon makes the spell resistance check to resist the dimensional anchor, but he is now anchored to the weapon. He then makes all of his attacks for the round.

Odds are, among the 5 hits, that at LEAST ONE will be a critical strike. He will use 2 arcane points to

By the end of round one (assuming one critical hit), the magus has dealt an average of:
3x(1d8 + 4d6 + 48 ) + 1d8 + 1d6 + 52 + (4d8 + 4d6 + 3d10 + 192), an average of: 472 nonlethal damage, plus an additional 85.25 for the dragon’s vulnerability to cold damage for a total of : 557.25

The dragon, at this point, has the following conditions:
fatigued
entangled
Frightened
sickened
Flat Footed
And anchored to a weapon

Half the damage goes to the angel, who promptly passes out. With the critical hit, the dragon’s spells begin to be dispelled by the stored Greater Dispel (My CL is 31, I only fail on a 1) The dragon is frightened, and can either teleport or try to move the anchoring weapon. At this point, the encounter could be a draw, but since it’s beast mass the dragon stays and uses a strength check to move, provoking an attack of opportunity. Not a crit, but it deals 1d8 + 4d6 + 48 +11.75 (extra damage from frost) = 78.75.

The magus then goes again, dealing 4x(1d8 + 4d6 + 48 ) + (4d8 +4d6 + 3d10 + 192) plus extra damage from cold , dealing a large amount of damage to the dragon. Once again, assuming one critical hit, and using spell combat to cast frostbite, he deals an average of 595.5 nonlethal damage. The dragon is now unconscious, and taking real damage. Because his contingency was dispelled, he does not automatically teleport.

With plenty of fight left in the magus, and no healing abilities left for the dragon’s team, I can safely say that this is GG for the dragon. The mooks will go down soon, and the magus’s defenses will hold against everything other than spells, which he almost always succeeds on. After wards, the magus finishes killing the dragon, and uses a scroll of Rest Eternal, and walks away.

As for questions about the environment, Fire resistance should deal with any fire damage, and echolocation will allow the magus to ignore concealment. He makes sure not to use it until he’s charging forward to the dragon, so as to not give away his position prematurely. His stealth skill is –very- good, making being spotted difficult.


I was getting a list together for how many variations of Legion there were, this list does not include archetypes (but Legion has them in its fold), and in other combinations. Presented below are 111 variations of the limitless Legion.

1st set:

  • Alchemist 5/Noble Scion 10/Alchemist 5
  • Antipaladin 5/Noble Scion 10/Antipaladin 5
  • Barbarian 5/Noble Scion 10/Barbarian 5
  • Bard 5/Noble Scion 10/Bard 5
  • Cavalier 5/Noble Scion 10/Cavalier 5
  • Cleric 5/Noble Scion 10/
  • Druid 5/Noble Scion 10/Druid 5
  • Fighter 5/Noble Scion 10/Fighter 5
  • Gunslinger 5/Noble Scion 10/Gunslinger 5
  • Inquisitor 5/Noble Scion 10/Inquisitor 5
  • Magus 5/Noble Scion 10/Magus 5
  • Monk 5/Noble Scion 10/Monk 5
  • Ninja 5/Noble Scion 10/Ninja 5
  • Oracle 5/Noble Scion 10/Oracle 5
  • Paladin 5/Noble Scion 10/Paladin 5
  • Ranger 5/Noble Scion 10/Ranger 5
  • Rogue 5/Noble Scion 10/Rogue 5
  • Samurai 5/Noble Scion 10/Samurai 5
  • Sorcerer 5/Noble Scion 10/Sorcerer 5
  • Summoner 5/Noble Scion 10/Summoner 5
  • Witch 5/Noble Scion 10/Witch 5
  • Wizard 5/Noble Scion 10/Wizard 5
  • Bard, Magus, Sorcerer, Witch, or Wizard 1/Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger,
  • Samurai 6/Arcane Archer 3/Noble Scion 10
  • Alchemist (vivisectionist), Ninja, or Rogue 3/Wizard 3 or Bard, Magus, or Sorcerer 4/Arcane Trickster 4 or 3/Noble Scion 10
  • Any Class 5/Noble Scion 10 or Assassin 5/Assassin 5 or Noble Scion 10
  • Bard, Magus, Sorcerer 5/Dragon Disciple 5 or Noble Scion 10/Noble Scion 10 or Dragon Disciple 5
  • Medium BAB Class 9/Duelist 1/Noble Scion 10
  • Medium BAB Class 4/Full BAB Class 3/Duelist 3/Noble Scion 10
  • Full BAB Class 6/Duelist 4/Noble Scion 10
  • Bard or Magus 7, or Sorcerer 6, or Witch or Wizard 5/Barbarian, Cavalier, Fighter, Gunslinger, Paladin, Ranger, or Samurai 1/Eldritch Knight 2, 3, or 4/Noble Scion 10
  • Sorcerer, Witch or Wizard 7/Loremaster 3/Noble Scion 10
  • Sorcerer or Magus 4, or Wizard or Witch 3/Cleric or Druid 3, or Inquisitor or Oracle 4/Mystic Theurge 2, 3, or 4/Noble Scion 10
  • Any class 5/Pathfinder Chronicler 5 or Noble Scion 10/Noble Scion 10 or Pathfinder Chronicler 5
  • Any class 5/Shadow Dancer 5 or Noble Scion 10/Noble Scion 10 or Shadow Dancer 5

and the 77 other Prcs to list, just not in detail.

other Prc:

  • Agent of the Grave
  • Arcane Savant
  • Battle Herald
  • Bloodmage
  • Brightness Seeker
  • Brother of the Seal
  • Darkfire Adept
  • Group Leader
  • Mage of the Third Eye
  • Celestial Knight
  • Champion of the Enlightened
  • Chevalier
  • Coastal Pirate
  • Collegiate Arcanist
  • Crimson Assassin
  • Cyphermage
  • Daivrat
  • Dark Delver
  • Deep Sea Pirate
  • Demoniac
  • Diabolist
  • Dissident of Dawn
  • Divine Assessor
  • Divine Scion
  • Envoy of Balance
  • Evangelist
  • Exalted
  • Field Agent
  • Furious Guardian
  • Genie Binder
  • Golden Legionnaire
  • Grand Marshal
  • Gray Warden
  • Green Faith Acolyte
  • Guild Agent
  • Guild Poisoner
  • Halfling Opportunist
  • Harrower
  • Hell Knight Commander
  • Hell Knight Enforcer
  • Holy Vindicator
  • Horizon Walker
  • Inheritor's Crusader
  • Justiciar
  • Lantern Bearer
  • Liberator
  • Lion Blade
  • Living Monolith
  • Low Templar
  • Mammoth Rider
  • Master Chymist
  • Master Spy
  • Mystery Cultist
  • False Priest
  • Natural Alchemist
  • Nature Warden
  • Pain Taster
  • Pit Fighter
  • Planes Walker
  • Purity Legion Enforcer
  • Rage Prophet
  • Master of Storms
  • Sanctified Prophet
  • Sentinel
  • Sleepless Detective
  • Soul Warden
  • Souleater
  • Spherewalker
  • Stalwart Defender
  • Steel Falcon
  • Student of War
  • Sun Seeker
  • Swordlord
  • Tattooed Mystic
  • Umbral Agent
  • Veiled Illusionist
  • Winter Witch
  • Legion uses the young and advanced templates giving him the racial modifiers of: Str +0, Dex +8, Con +0, Int +4, Wis +4, Cha +4; These are on top of being an azlanti human.

    So all the modifiers together come out to be:
    Str +2, Dex +10, Con +2, Int +6, Wis +6, Cha +6

    This is assuming that template modifiers stack with one another.


    How do you see through the smoke frodo

    Lantern Lodge

    Echolocation

    EDIT: The character is probably not without errors in math and such, but the general concept should work. As for sight, I'm somewhat under the impression that since the dragon went through the trouble of having true sight guards (without being able to see through smoke) and fake places to step that the smoke isn't all prevailing. Of course, I could be wrong, I'm going off the original post here too.

    Lantern Lodge

    I guess I do take a leap in assuming I know that the dragon is at the bottom of the volcano, but previous scouting via earth glide (elemental body) could account for knowing where he was too.

    Sczarni

    someone take a tetori monk of awesome and bind him in one round... =D


    Okay this is the part where my lack of experience with PF vs 3.5 and early editions shows ... Legion is one PC and they have 163 followers, is that the entire army or just the first batch?

    How do you teleport into the chamber, as I understand it those wards are permanent not something he has to recast there are no few moments when they aren't present (of course maybe I've got that wrong). His daily casting I'd assume occur inside the Prismatic Sphere. Even if Legion can somehow overcome or bypass the warding to teleport there's still the problem of teleporting into an area for which they have at best a second hand description (at least without some further detail as how they intend to get more info). Could be a chunk of legion ends up off on a nice side trip. I'm also going to hazard a guess that there is not a lot of nice lava free area to actually land your teleports for something legion size at least within the chamber. Unless, of course, they can indeed land on the lava filled areas and live to tell about it.
    Next Legion or more specifically Legion's legion needs to be able to survive within the chamber. Lots of communal resist fire? How to avoid choking on the smoke?

    Quote:
    *edit* I should also mention that locate object still works on finding the dragon, just in a roundabout way. Unless I missed something about mind blank protecting the creature's objects.

    You should be able to work around the Mind Blank that way. That is an example of what I meant when I said something to the effect of "coming at it sideways" in another thread. Mind Blank is an 8th level spell, not a version of "Greater Deity erases all evidence that you ever existed".

    Getting sleepy ... keep the ideas coming.


    FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
    I guess I do take a leap in assuming I know that the dragon is at the bottom of the volcano, but previous scouting via earth glide (elemental body) could account for knowing where he was too.

    Yep, scouting carries risk but you could learn further details that presumably our hero would not know at first such as the existence of the Prismatic Sphere beneath the lava, the fact it is likely permanent, etc..

    Lantern Lodge

    All he wants to know is the location of the dragon. He doesn't care about the sphere, so he'll just use the work around as noted above to simply know the dragon is "at the bottom of the volcano". After that, he just charges in. The angel passes out in round one due to the sheer amounts of damage being thrown around.


    wall of text:

    Kayerloth wrote:

    Okay this is the part where my lack of experience with PF vs 3.5 and early editions shows ... Legion is one PC and they have 163 followers, is that the entire army or just the first batch?

    How do you teleport into the chamber, as I understand it those wards are permanent not something he has to recast there are no few moments when they aren't present (of course maybe I've got that wrong). His daily casting I'd assume occur inside the Prismatic Sphere. Even if Legion can somehow overcome or bypass the warding to teleport there's still the problem of teleporting into an area for which they have at best a second hand description (at least without some further detail as how they intend to get more info). Could be a chunk of legion ends up off on a nice side trip. I'm also going to hazard a guess that there is not a lot of nice lava free area to actually land your teleports for something legion size at least within the chamber. Unless, of course, they can indeed land on the lava filled areas and live to tell about it.
    Next Legion or more specifically Legion's legion needs to be able to survive within the chamber. Lots of communal resist fire? How to avoid choking on the smoke?

    Quote:
    *edit* I should also mention that locate object still works on finding the dragon, just in a roundabout way. Unless I missed something about mind blank protecting the creature's objects.

    You should be able to work around the Mind Blank that way. That is an example of what I meant when I said something to the effect of "coming at it sideways" in another thread. Mind Blank is an 8th level spell, not a version of "Greater Deity erases all evidence that you ever existed".

    Getting sleepy ... keep the ideas coming.

    Legion is one PC with unlimited cohorts and by extension followers. Please note the greater leadership ability of the Noble Scion prc.

    Quote:


    Greater Leadership (Ex)
    At 2nd level, a noble scion gains the Leadership feat as a bonus feat. He can recruit a cohort up to one level lower than himself. At 10th level, he can recruit a cohort of the same level as himself.

    Legion is Any Class Combination 5 or 10/Noble Scion 10/Any Class Combination 5; so long as the total remains 20 with all 10 levels of Noble Scion. Each cohort in legion is 20th level and has 163 followers, they are not present in the battle at all, they are throughout the worlds while the PC and the Cohorts are doing the battle. Their flexibility expands as pathfinder material expands.

    Remember the OP said he assumes we have bypassed or overcome all traps and other sentinels of the dungeon to get to the main chamber which is not under any protection of divination magic. With Legion’s vast pool of skills, they can get in to get rid of the archers in hiding with banishments or just eliminate them, I’ve posted a small goblin with a sneak skill of 46 at level 10, higher than most level 20 creature’s perception checks; with the Erinyes have a perception of 16, the more potent Vavakia demons have a perception of 34 12 lower than the 46 mentioned, however, it is actually 22 or more lower because we are 10 levels higher. They will be assassinated before alarms can be sounded.

    Permanent magic fields could be suppressed, but because the dragon has been using wish/limited wish to create these barriers, they can be dispelled with proper applications of dispel magic or just wish them away; Legion has the wealth needed to buy the scrolls.
    If the dragon is inside the prismatic spheres for it’s daily castings, it would have to be squeezing or it would be touching the ceiling and could not use its wings; He has nothing to reduce his size, so this is most fortunate for Legion indeed; unless the dragon is the sphere’s owner, I wonder if one could use a wish to change the ownership of spells.

    To really get around the spheres, rods of cancellation are cheap (11k or 5.5k if we build them ourselves), which we can have a couple of magma elemental take in to destroy the prismatic sphere and the walls of force. Until that point, there is an area of 100ft by 100ft by 30ft devoid of lava or an area of 300,000 square feet (That is assuming we take 100*100*30=300,000; but if we take the squares in 5ft dimensions then it is 20x20x6=2,400). Legion has their summoned or called creatures teleport in to harry the dragon; The called creatures could/can escape, the summoned creatures are cheap and expendable. I must thank the OP for doing something unique, maybe without realizing it as well, but with the walls of force in place as well as the prismatic sphere; the area within the walls of force and inside the sphere are an airless environment. With summoned scouts of an elemental nature, such as the magma elementals, we know what to expect.

    Instead of destroying the walls of force though, multiple creatures could greater teleport in (summons and called creatures) and destroy the prismatic sphere as more and more creatures teleport in using a telepathy relay system to let others know when to teleport in. Finding the dragon then in the swarm would be easy enough; there are 60,000 5ft squares inside the walls of force, the dragon takes up 270 squares, the horde another 30, the large angel takes up 4, that leaves 59,696 (or 2,096) squares to fill with minions, sorry we can share the space with the dragon so that is 59,966 (or 2,366) minions. That gives us 59, 966 (or 2,366) actions inside the cage. So how many dispel attempts does it take to strip the dragon of all protections and permanency’d spells? As spaces free up, more minions teleport in, harassing the dragon and planetar so they cannot cast spells. Let’s assume a mix of Babau and Lantern Archons; about 366) Babaus and 2000 Lantern Archons acting in a given round.

    For environmental effects, the Legion clerics, druids, sorcerers, witches, and wizards will open up the mountain with stone shaping; Lantern archons can also drill into the mountain with their light beams (ignore hardness/DR). The knowledgable architects and engineers will ensure that we do not collapse the mountain. Air elementals will also remove smoke, water/ice elementals will keep things cool. Magma, Earth, and Fire elementals will scout the interior as necessary. There are also countless familiars, animal companions, improved familiars at our disposal. Life bubble is a lower level communal spell as well, resist energy, fire shield, you name it, Legion can get access to it.

    Lantern Lodge

    There's bound to be a limit to the number of level 20 characters in a given campaign setting.

    In addition, what are the odds of a single one of them to be a Noble Scion?

    Infinity concepts are cool, but unrealistic. The only way I'd see this happening is with some sort of way to travel through dimensions or time. O.o

    But yes, you've annihilated the dragon.


    FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

    There's bound to be a limit to the number of level 20 characters in a given campaign setting.

    In addition, what are the odds of a single one of them to be a Noble Scion?

    Infinity concepts are cool, but unrealistic. The only way I'd see this happening is with some sort of way to travel through dimensions or time. O.o

    But yes, you've annihilated the dragon.

    Scepter of Ages

    Scepter of Ages:

    Laws of Time: The Scepter of Ages is the key to time traveling adventures, and all the perils and conundrums such stories entail. If a GM does not want time traveling elements in her game, is it strongly recommended that she not use the Scepter of Ages.

    That said, time travel can be as simple or as complicated as a GM pleases. Nothing says a game has to become bogged down with split timelines, temporal paradoxes, and existence-shattering repercussions. GMs who want the effects of time travel to be like the ripples of a pebble dropped into a still pool might enjoy tracking every deed and ramification. Alternatively, some GMs might prefer the effects of time travel to be like a pebble dropped into a swift moving stream, having minor effects near the point of contact, but ultimately having no effect on the course of the water. Still other GMs might want to do away with popular rules of time travel entirely and invent their own, perhaps making time itself resistant to changes or revealing guardians of time (like the hounds of Tindalos).

    Legion was just an exercise in theory-craft to kill the dragon; albeit a very cheesy way of doing so. If the PC has access to artifacts, then the scepter of ages makes Legion very possible, but also opens up other possibilities, such as killing the dragon after birth (before birth means to kill another red dragon or so which presents its own problems).

    I do agree though, in all fantastical sense of reality within pathfinder, Legion simply does not work the way I portrayed. In this, he or she would have to hire a more capable cohort to challenge the dragon or put a bounty on him for a group of adventurers to take care of.


    Yep if Legion's legion is a vast multitude of 20th level cohort's all with followers Incendis does the only sensible thing any sentient creature would do ... looks for the exit and probably keeps running wondering who he ticked off so badly *next plane of existence please*.

    And while a nice thought exercise yes any reasonably competent GM isn't going to let things get that out of control.


    So in killing the dragon, I have also killed the thread?

    Lantern Lodge

    I killed it last :P

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