Help! Creating magic items!


Rules Questions


I'm trying to create a magic lute for a player. I want the lute to have some spells that can be activated a number of times per day. I'm trying to use Table 15-29 to make the item but I'm confused on the charges per day part. Specifically the part that says.....

"Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)"

If I understand it right that means if I want the spell to be activated 3 times per day I would take the cost of the spell (in this case Shout) and divide it by 5/3 right? So: 80,000 (4th level spell * 10th level bard * 2000 gp)/ 1.67 = 47904 is that right?

Grand Lodge

That looks right.


Close, since its not at-will you would use the command word column.

4*10*1800=72,000
72,000*(3/5)=43,200

If you add that it takes a specific skill DC (wind instruments) to play it and get the magical effect you can reduce the price by 10% more.

43,200*.9=38,880

Don't forget you pay 1/2 the base price when crafting.
So the item costs you 19,440gp and takes 39 days to make (20 days if you add +5 to the spellcraft DC)


you can lower it more by adding requried class like 30%?

Does anyone know if you have to roll the skill check, or if it's just a requirement like a Prestige class? (i'm inclined think it's a prestige like thing. so as long as you have it)

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Zwordsman wrote:

you can lower it more by adding requried class like 30%?

Does anyone know if you have to roll the skill check, or if it's just a requirement like a Prestige class? (i'm inclined think it's a prestige like thing. so as long as you have it)

Magic item creation isn't a game of how can I lower it.

You can't even go to the charts before you have exhausted all other similar items or items of similar power previously priced.

The 30% reduction for limitations is only if you find something in a dungeon and want to sell it. If you are crafting it for yourself and you will not be limited by the limitation, then the limitation is a boon. It shouldn't cost 30% less to make but rather 30% more because if it is taken from you then your enemy can't activate it.


not saying it is a game of lowering it. He was asking how things work and then others mentioned details that are often over looked. so I mentioned more things that are often over looked.

It's up to a gm if it's a boon or a bane, but that doesn't mean we ought not point out details. Since they're determining WBL coordinating with their game. Well unless it's pfs which doesn't have any crafting as far as I know anyway.

Besides, while if its taken they can't use it, by the same reverse your party couldn't use them either. Which as far as I see, typically comes up a lot more.

anywho, I don't see any problems with the math that hasn't been pointed out. So looks good to go


Splendor,

Where do you find the rules that say you can reduce the price by adding the skill check to it? And also, why is it "command word" and not "use activated." Finally, I thought that the price you got was the price it cost to make, and then the merchants doubled that price to get the sale price. I'm trying to get more educated on this section because I'm DMing for a group of new players, one of whom is very keen on the magic item creation idea and I want to be able to help him make the items he wants in a way that is both balanced for game play, but allows him to have fun building the items he wants.


http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html
Under "other considerations" it lists various options that personally I didn't know until recently myself.
Other Considerations: Once you have a cost figure, reduce that number if either of the following conditions applies:

Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.

Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%.

as for command word or use activiated.. I dunno I'm still figuring out some of that stuff myself


Look at the examples of the items they list.

Command word-Spell level×caster level×1,800gp-Cape of the mountebank
Use-activated or continuous-Spell level×caster level×2,000gp-Lantern of revealing

Cape of the Mountebank is only useable 1/day.
Lantern of Revealing can be used as often as you want.

Items that have a limited number of uses per day are under the 'command word' costs; while items that can be used at will are under 'use-activated or continuous' costs,.

---

The price you get is the 'Base Price'. Your character pays 1/2 this cost to create the item. The item takes 1 day per 1,000gp of the base price (you can add +5 to the DC to 1/2 this time).

---

Other things to note. Use-activated & Continuous items cost more (or less) depending upon the spells duration.
"If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half."


Remember* when you reduce the cost by 10% for specific skill or 30% by specific class --> this also reduces the final sale price of the item by the same 10% / 30%.


Oh.. wait then, could you make a Bracelet of Magic Missle for (lv9 for 5missles x spell lv 1=9x20000 18,000. but self crafting is half 9,000 (and potentially 30% less) thats pretty amusing for a specific character idea I had

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Sarrah wrote:
Remember* when you reduce the cost by 10% for specific skill or 30% by specific class --> this also reduces the final sale price of the item by the same 10% / 30%.

Those are not design for or intended to be used by PC making for themselves. They are GM tools to make things the bad guys get for less that the PC can't use and have to sell for discount.

This was FAQ in 3.5 world. Basically they are not a way to discount it, in fact it is a boon to PC's. If the bad guy steals your item, he can't use it. So if anything it should cost more not less for PC's.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

As James mentioned, the magic item creation guidelines are mostly intended for the GM, and also, they're not hard and fast rules for pricing. However, if Squaba is the GM and everyone at the table is ok with the price, there's no problem as far as I can tell. Whatever seems fair, I guess, is the right price for the item. :)

If RPGSS has taught me anything, it's that magic item pricing is equal parts art and science. :p Comparing the item's usefulness with other items in the same price range is usually the way to go.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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Serpent wrote:
Comparing the item's usefulness with other items in the same price range is usually the way to go.

Not only is it good advice, it is explicitly the first step in the item creation pricing rules (before looking at the chart.)


Note also that a lute does not take up a space on the body and thus the base price is doubled.

"3 An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double."

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

James Risner wrote:

Not only is it good advice, it is explicitly the first step in the item creation pricing rules (before looking at the chart.)

Indeed! Yet most people skip that part and go straight to the table. In my opinion, the table is useful only for pricing the simplest of items, i.e. ones that give you a constant +x bonus.

jesterle wrote:

Note also that a lute does not take up a space on the body and thus the base price is doubled.

"3 An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double."

I think the 2x cost applies to items like the ioun stones that are completely slot-free and.. hands-free. :) A flute requires two hands to use, so it's not quite as much of a benefit that it doesn't use up one of the slots. But to be honest, I can't remember if magical instruments in the CRB or other books have the 2x cost or not.


Quote:

Look at the examples of the items they list.

Command word-Spell level×caster level×1,800gp-Cape of the mountebank
Use-activated or continuous-Spell level×caster level×2,000gp-Lantern of revealing

Cape of the Mountebank is only useable 1/day.
Lantern of Revealing can be used as often as you want.

The difference isnt only on the pricing, but on how you can activate the item.

A command-word activation is always a standard action, thats why it is cheaper.
While a use-activated or continuous effect could be a standard action (in the case of most charged items) or no action (for items that you cant turn off).

His choice when making the item will decide if its 1800 or 2000.
Anyway, the wording on the table is confusing, but another way to calculate the charges per day is multiply the price by the number of charges, then divide by 5.

Ex (2000 * 3)/5 for an item with 3 daily charges.


Musical instruments are listed in the slotless category in the Ultimate Equipment book. The rule quoted above is clear if the item does not fill one of the body slots it costs to make doubles. Personally I think this rule is a little extreme but unless you are going to house rule we are stuck with it.


Quote:

Note also that a lute does not take up a space on the body and thus the base price is doubled.

"3 An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double."

Only if his magic item is floating around him, inscribed on his skin or mystically fused with his soul. Or something of the sort.

If he needs his hands to use the item, no.

"no space limitation" and "slotless" are completely different things.
A potion is also slotless but you need a hand to open the bottle and drink it.

EDIT
Here is how i price magic items:

1) Try to find an item that does the same effect already;
2) Try to find an item that does something similar;
3) Try to find an item that has similar requeriments and use, and reverse engineer the pricing to find the formula that was used;
4) Go to the table and craft from scratch.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

jesterle wrote:
Musical instruments are listed in the slotless category in the Ultimate Equipment book. The rule quoted above is clear if the item does not fill one of the body slots it costs to make doubles. Personally I think this rule is a little extreme but unless you are going to house rule we are stuck with it.

Yes, they're certainly in the slotless category. What I meant is more like.. is the 2x figured in the prices of the musical instruments in the Ultimate Equipment book?

Either way, I wouldn't go as far as to say that we're stuck with the 2x. As James pointed out above, the first rule of magic item pricing is comparison with existing items. The table is just a rough guideline that more often than not gets the price wrong unless you're making a simple +x item.


I agree with James statement about looking for magical similar items that are similar first for determining the cost. I even like and agree with Shadowkraws steps but once you are going to use the chart then you are stuck using the 2x for slotless items.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

jesterle wrote:
I agree with James statement about looking for magical similar items that are similar first for determining the cost. I even like and agree with Shadowkraws steps but once you are going to use the chart then you are stuck using the 2x for slotless items.

No, not really. Unlike many other parts of the book, they're guidelines, not hard-and-fast rules. Not to mention the name of the table is Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

CRB wrote:
Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

But I do agree in the sense that if the player and the GM are inexperienced, it may be easier just to use the table than to worry about it too much.

At any rate, the price should reflect the relative usefulness of the item. A truly slotless item is obviously better than a slotless item that requires the use of one or both hands. For the same reason, i.e. relative usefulness, James mentioned that a restriction that doesn't hurt you but rather, makes the item more useful/safer for you is grounds for price increase, not decrease.

Below are some good links for reading about magic item creation, written by none other than SKR. Obviously, they were originally written for the RPGSS contest, but it's the same kind of advice that the people who wrote Ultimate Equipment were expected to follow.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lg27?Wondrous-Item-autoreject-advice-7-Obvious
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ljk8?Wondrous-Item-autoreject-advice-23-Items

It's a fun contest, by the way. Wholeheartedly recommended!

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