Confused about bows and strength penalties


Rules Questions


Specifically, the book says "A strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies on damage rolls made with a bow that is not a composite bow." I've found a few other references to strength penalties in the book, but nothing that explains what it is. My own searching has led me to believe the following, please let me know whether I've got it right.

I'm presuming that the strength penalty is just a negative STR mod that results from a low strength roll (or perhaps a good roll temporarily reduced by other effect). In that case, when rolling damage, the PC would add the negative STR (which would lower the damage) even though he normally would not add STR to a ranged attack. This also seems consistent to me with the bit about it not happening when using a compound bow as the only purpose of the bow's mechanism is to allow the archer to hold the bow drawn with less physical effort.

Please let me know if any of this is correct (of course, if not, please also let me know what is, lol)

Thank you all.


Alright, a composite bow can be made to apply a strength mod bonus to damage. So let's say you have a strength mod of +2 and normally with a standard medium sized composite long bow, you'll only do 1d8 damage. Well, if your composite longbow was a +2 strength one, then on the attack you could apply that +2 strength mod to the damage.

So, if your mod is +4, still, only +2 can be applied. If the bow had a rating higher than your current modifer, then you'll suffer a penalty to your ranged attack, which I believe is a -2 penalty to attack rolls with the weapon, regardless how below you are of the rating, or how high it is above yours.

100 gp to apply each +1 strength to a composite bow that's additional to the base cost of the weapon.

Hope this helps


OK, now I think I'm more confused. First off, is the penalty based on whether STR is a positive or negative number? Or are you saying it becomes an issue when I have a STR mod of +1 but I've arranged for my bow to have its own strength mod of +2?


Once the weapon has a bonus applied to it that reflects giving strength damage, then you must at least meet those requirements, or you'll suffer the ranged penalty.

A normal composite bow without the addition of the bonus to the weapon built in, will work regardless of your strength modifer.

So, again.

Normal bow= no problems

Str bonus bow= equal the bonus with your mod, or Beats it, then no problem

Str bonus bow= lower than bonus, then a ranged penalty to the bow, nothing reflecting a damage penalty.

There is no negative str bonus bow.

If you want to use the benefits of your strength bonus on a bow, and never worry about suffering penalties, or not getting your strength added like if it increased, then look into the adaptive weapon enhancement. It's a flat 1k bonus, and when applied even to a bow above your strength rating, it'll allow you to use it without penalty, and apply whatever positive bonus you have. Also, this cost does not count against the total 10 shots you can have on a weapon, nor does it scale the price.


If you're using a non-composite bow, if you have a strength penalty (ie. 8 Str is a -1 mod, thus a Str penalty), it applies to your damage rolls. However, if you have a bonus, it does not benefit your damage roll since it isn't a composite bow.

So with a 1d8 damage, non-composite Bow, your damage is as follows:

-5 modifier: 1d8-5
-4 modifier: 1d8-4
...
-1 modifier: 1d8-1
+0 modifier: 1d8
+1 modifier: 1d8
+2 modifier: 1d8
...
+1,000,000,000 modifier: 1d8

With a Composite Bow, on the other hand, you can add your Str bonus to your attack roll. Each Composite Bow has a Str requirement which, if you have less than that value of Str mod, you suffer the penalty.

so, with a 1d8, composite Bow with a +2 Str rating:

-1 modifier: 1d8-3 (-1 for Str penalty, -2 for less than +2 Str mod requirement)
+0 modifier: 1d8-2
+1 modifier: 1d8-1
+2 modifier: 1d8+2 (starting here, no more -2)
+3 modifier: 1d8+2
+4 modifier: 1d8+2
...
+1 bajillion modifier: 1d8+2


Craig1234 wrote:

Please let me know if any of this is correct (of course, if not, please also let me know what is, lol)

That is correct, yes. When using a bow (or a sling), you apply a negative STR modifier to damage rolls, despite not normally adding a STR modifier to ranged damage rolls.

Rapanuii is talking about something different, which is the penalty to attack rolls you get when having a lower STR than a composite bow's intended STR modifier.

Edit: Kazaan, you don't add the -2 penalty to damage rolls with composite bows. That penalty only applies to the attack roll. So it would be "1d8-1" for a -1 modifier, "1d8+0" for a +0 modifier, "1d8+1" for a +1 modifier, and then finally "1d8+2" for a +2 modifier or higher.


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It goes like this:
Normal bow (Composite or not):
Str 8 Character does 1d8-1 damage
Str 10 Character does 1d8 damage
Str 12 Character does 1d8 damage

Composite strength rating 2 bow
Str 8 Character does 1d8-1 damage AND suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls
Str 10 Character does 1d8 damage AND suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls
Str 12 Character does 1d8+1 damage AND suffers a -2 penalty to attack roll
Str 14 (or higher) does 1d8+2 damage.

Price of bows:
Base price listed in the weapons table. Only composite bows can have added strength pull, and for each rating it costs 100 gp so a composite bow with a strength rating of 2 costs 100+200 = 300 gp.

Hope this helps.


I deeply apologize, and yes, I was taking strictly about composite bows. I was distracted by marvel vs capcom 3.

The normal bow that isn't composite will consider the penalty to your personal str mod.

I think I made a boo boo before and didn't add the word composite to what I had, and that must have been very confusing.


well, not the first time I've been confused, lol, and thanks for replying (to all of you). I think I've got it pretty straight now, but would never have figured it entirely out on my own. So let me try to paraphrase this all to see if I understand it correctly now:

Regular (non-composite) bow:
I just add STR to damage if the value is negative, but not positive - nothing else to do here.

Composite bows:
If my STR is less than the bow's rating, then I take a -2 penalty to the attack roll without the penalty affecting damage. If STR is equal to or above the rating, then there is no attack penalty. As for damage, I add STR to it up to the bow's rating, but not beyond. So, if I had a rating 3 bow, then I would add any STR value up to and including +3, but no more, even if my STR were 1.21 gigapoints.

Did I get it right this time, lol?

Thanks


I just learned something new, and I need to make corrections to help clarify things for you.

So, a composite longbow will be subjected to the same strength penalties apparently, but the exception is that it has a minimum of a +0 strength rating on one without a bonus.

Not having the minimum bonus results in a penalty that's reflected with non-proficiency, and I never realized this. I've never used a longbow unless I had at least +3, so I I just overlooked this stuff.

If you need further help understanding I'll try my best, especially for my goofs.


Craig1234 wrote:

well, not the first time I've been confused, lol, and thanks for replying (to all of you). I think I've got it pretty straight now, but would never have figured it entirely out on my own. So let me try to paraphrase this all to see if I understand it correctly now:

Regular (non-composite) bow:
I just add STR to damage if the value is negative, but not positive - nothing else to do here.

This is correct: if you have a negative strength modifier, it always reduces your damage, both on normal and composite bows.

Craig1234 wrote:

Composite bows:

If my STR is less than the bow's rating, then I take a -2 penalty to the attack roll without the penalty affecting damage.

This is mostly true: it might be easier if you separate the concepts of "strength penalty" from "penalty to attack rolls".

If your strength modifier is less than the rating of the bow, you take the -2 penalty to your attack roll.

If you have a negative strength modifier, you also apply your strength penalty to damage. (Since the minimum rating of a composite bow is 0, if your strength is below 10, you are automatically below the rating of the bow.)

Craig1234 wrote:

If STR is equal to or above the rating, then there is no attack penalty. As for damage, I add STR to it up to the bow's rating, but not beyond. So, if I had a rating 3 bow, then I would add any STR value up to and including +3, but no more, even if my STR were 1.21 gigapoints.

Did I get it right this time, lol?

Completely right.

Side note: if you have a variable strength modifier due to buff spells, raging, etc., check out the Adaptive bow enhancement on this page.

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