Power Attack & Tripping


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I have greater trip and power attack.
Can I trip 1st and then Power attack after the successful trip on my AoO, or do i have to declare Power Attack at beginning of the round?


To make a power attack you choose before an attack roll to take the penalty to apply the damage bonus' to damage rolls. In the start of your next turn effects reset.

So, you can power attack whenever you choose when you're about to make an attack roll. You'd be smart to apply it to the attack that gets the damage roll.

Edit:
For clarity, yes, you can do that. If you did it on the initial trip attempt, you would hurt your chances to trip obviously, so applying it the way you're asking is how to do it.


If only my DM saw it the correct way


"You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn."

I think it's ambiguous. When it says you must decide before making an attack roll, I could see that as meaning "before you make an attack roll THIS TURN you must decide" or "you decide before each attack, but once you decide to use it it stays on for the turn." I would be more inclined to go with the first interpretation as a DM.


No, it's for the purpose that you can't roll, see the results, then say, "that was a power attack, so deduct for it". You're forced to accept the results with the penalty, and you take the risk for the reward.

An attack roll is about to happen, you must decide if you want to power attack. Trip, succeed, gain an aoo, take it, power attack with your melee attack, all melee attack rolls will be subject to the penalty, and the damage bonus' considering the weapon classification, and if additional hands matter.


It's not ambiguous.

"You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll..."

It means if you want to use power attack at all that turn you must do so before you make any kind of attack roll.

Liberty's Edge

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Claxon wrote:

It's not ambiguous.

"You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll..."

It means if you want to use power attack at all that turn you must do so before you make any kind of attack roll.

Claxon is correct in that it is not ambiguous...but his interpretation is incorrect.

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"You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn."

You cannot choose to use the feat after an attack roll. You must declare it's use before AN attack roll. Nowhere in the feat description does it state that you must choose to activate it before any attacks are made for your turn.

Then, after you have chosen to use it, it's effects last until your next turn.


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How can you agree it is unambiguous and then immediately say that the previous poster's interpretation was wrong, but you have an alternate interpretation? That is the very definition of ambiguity.

Shadow Lodge

Due to the similar wording of Combat Expertise, I would say the intent would be to have it only work before you make any attack at all that round. RAW, it is ambiguous, as we have 2 conflicting opinions that RAW might be supporting, without it being clear which one RAW does support. So I say, FAQ.


RedDogMT wrote:

"You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn."

You cannot choose to use the feat after an attack roll. You must declare it's use before AN attack roll. Nowhere in the feat description does it state that you must choose to activate it before any attacks are made for your turn.

It says that in the first half of the feat: "You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls."

With "all melee attack rolls" as the reference, the indefinite article in "an attack roll" means "any one of the attack rolls you are planning to make on this turn and through the beginning of your next turn".

Claxon is quite correct: You must declare Power Attack before the first attack roll of your turn, regardless of whether that first attack does any damage.

Every GM I've ever played with handles Power Attack this same way. (And I'm talking dozens of GMs, in two different states.)


All the first line is proving is that when you initiate the power attack that you from that point on, until your next turn, will suffer the penalties, and possible benefits if you are successful with your melee attacks.

I do however am on the fence now, and see this to be more ambiguous due to the wording of "an attack". Does it mean any attack rolls that turn, or a specific attack roll like I described above where it's to prevent people from applying it after they've made their roll?


Combat Expertise:
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the dodge bonus increases by +1. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or a full-attack action with a melee weapon. The effects of this feat last until your next turn.

This actually puts me more on the side of my original interpretation, because this has wording that states before making an attack, or full attack action, which I take as making a single attack action, or a full attack.

Power attack just states an attack, and doesn't use the wording that combat expertise does. Both of these feats are core, so why the difference if they indeed do the same thing by making you choose to use, before making an attack roll on your turn for the entirety of the turn? There is a difference between distinguishing attack actions/full attack, from a general "an attack" I feel.

Thoughts?


According to SKR you can wait to decide before that particular attack roll, but once you activate it, then it stays up until the beginning of your next turn.

Grand Lodge

wraithstrike wrote:
According to SKR you can wait to decide before that particular attack roll, but once you activate it, then it stays up until the beginning of your next turn.

Got a link to SKR's post?

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