Planar binding probably doesnt count in the same way summons dont. The environment should be fairly trivial for anyone at high level. It is more flavour than anything else.
Zen Archer. One defeated the Ancient Gold from 600 feet away.
I wonder if a druid earth-gliding through lava would trigger the dragon's blindsense. Does lava block line of effect needed for blindsense? If it does, the druid with cave domain and tremorsense might get a surprise round on the dragon. How this leads to a 1 turn kill that doesn't let the dragon teleport back to the planetar with raise dead, I'm still working out...
Deadmanwalking wrote: 1d8+11d6+31 seven times can you please break this down? i'm about to roll up a gunslinger and i'd like to know how to make it this awesome... :)
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ParagonDireRaccoon wrote: There was a thread a few weeks ago asking for advice on making an epic Great Wyrm Red Dragon encounter. I assume a great wyrm red dragon will have a lot of defenses to use up supplies of PCs before they reach the dragon, and might (in one of my campaigns definitely) have a network of spies, and agents who hire adventurers. The PCs in question may have procured items and artifacts for the dragon through an intermediary, the dragon probably knows their strengths and weaknesses. If I were running the encounter, the dragon would have a lernean cryohydra or similar encounter two or three encounters before the dragon's lair, to use up protection from element supplies (and maybe catch the PCs off guard if they only have protection from fire). One or two encounters before the lair are a pair of advanced iron golems, the fight will make a lot of noise and give the dragon time to cast buff spells.
Once in the lair, the dragon has levers on the ceiling, disguised as stalactites:
Lever 1: pours steak sauce on PCs
Lever 2: Activates anti-magic field starting at height ten feet above floor level
The dragon then uses his/her breath weapon to melt piles of gold at a higher level, turning them into molten gold (combo lava/quicksand rules)
Lever 3: Pours molten gold into anti-magic field area where some or all PCs are
Lever 4: Opens trap door to 40'x40'x80' deep pit, and gravity drops molten gold into pit
Lever 5: Pours water into pit (which has an anti-magic field, of course)
Lever 6: Release the kraken
With the network of spies, the dragon will have countermeasures prepared for PCs who can fly
There are brilliant anti-dragon builds here, but a great wyrm red dragon will know his/her weaknesses and will know the strengths and weaknesses of the PCs.
Honestly, this is along the lines I want to be ready for! I get two characters to play, mythic is being used, cohorts are possible...but this won't be 4-5 lvl20s ambushing an unprepared collosal winged lizard.
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Step 1:Be a Diviner Wizard with the feats Improved Initiative, Craft Wondrous Items, and the Anticipate Peril spell, and a Greensting Scorpion Familiar.
Step 2:Be an Elf with the alternate racial trait that grants a bonus to initiative checks and the Warrior of Old trait.
Step 3:Have a Dex of 20 starting and increase it by 6 from a belt and by 4 from leveling. For extra fun, have a 5Con.
Step 4:Craft a Portable Hole and a Bag of Holding[any type will do]
Step 5:With your 20th level Diviner thing of an automatic natural 20 on initiative, you beat the Dragon at initiative most likely, since you are looking at +37ish to initiative, for an automatic 47. Initiate combat with Portable Hole and Bag of Holding in hand.
Step 6:Before the dragon gets to act, get up within 5ft, and drop the Bag of Holding into the Portable Hole.
Step 7:Be satisfied be the fact that, while you did just make a 20th level wizard commit suicide, you managed to 1-round a Great Wyrm Red Dragon with a 5 Constitution.
Step 8:Wonder how in the unholy name of Asmodeus you made it to level 20 with a 5 Con.
Purple Dragon Knight wrote: Deadmanwalking wrote: 1d8+11d6+31 seven times can you please break this down? i'm about to roll up a gunslinger and i'd like to know how to make it this awesome... :) Sadly a lot of it (6d6+2) is specialized equipment (a Holy, Axiomatic, Dragonbane pistol).
The other 5d6 is Pistolero's Up Close and Deadly plus Signature Deed. The +29 is 12 from Dex (which is that high due to leveling, probably a few Wishes/Tomes and a +6 Belt), 12 from Deadly Aim, and 5 from the gun being +5. The seven attacks includes one from the surprise round, and Rapid Shot, and Haste. That's it.
If you invest in the Gun Twirling Feat you can also grab TWF and it's successor Feats for three more attacks, though.
Murderhobo 2.0 wrote: Step 1:Be a Diviner Wizard with the feats Improved Initiative, Craft Wondrous Items, and the Anticipate Peril spell, and a Greensting Scorpion Familiar.
Step 2:Be an Elf with the alternate racial trait that grants a bonus to initiative checks and the Warrior of Old trait.
Step 3:Have a Dex of 20 starting and increase it by 6 from a belt and by 4 from leveling. For extra fun, have a 5Con.
Step 4:Craft a Portable Hole and a Bag of Holding[any type will do]
Step 5:With your 20th level Diviner thing of an automatic natural 20 on initiative, you beat the Dragon at initiative most likely, since you are looking at +37ish to initiative, for an automatic 47. Initiate combat with Portable Hole and Bag of Holding in hand.
Step 6:Before the dragon gets to act, get up within 5ft, and drop the Bag of Holding into the Portable Hole.
Step 7:Be satisfied be the fact that, while you did just make a 20th level wizard commit suicide, you managed to 1-round a Great Wyrm Red Dragon with a 5 Constitution.
Step 8:Wonder how in the unholy name of Asmodeus you made it to level 20 with a 5 Con.
Dragon casts plane shift followed by teleport and is annoyed.
voideternal wrote: I wonder if a druid earth-gliding through lava would trigger the dragon's blindsense. Does lava block line of effect needed for blindsense? If it does, the druid with cave domain and tremorsense might get a surprise round on the dragon. How this leads to a 1 turn kill that doesn't let the dragon teleport back to the planetar with raise dead, I'm still working out... Well, the Conqueror Ooze does get Elemental forms. With swift wildshape, he could start out as an elemental, earthglide to get close, then one hit TKO as a Carnivorous Crystal (assuming he still has a standard action left, which I think he does).
prototype00
Be a lvl 2 grenadier alchemist with a gun, a Band of the Stalwart Warrior, and a single dose of Dreamtime Tea.
Walk up to the dragon and say "I'm going to kill you" (knees and hands shaking because there is basically no way he saved vs the frightful presence). The dragon, knowing that he has used toothpicks with more HD than this helpless idiot standing before him, humors the idiot for a single round of amusement before a very painful death.
Move action for Alchemical Weapon. Standard action to shoot. Dragon is now asleep for 2d12 minutes with no save, non-magically. Coup de Grace for the next 20 rounds. Dragon steaks for dinner.
Because there is nothing better at making someone lower their guard than being woefully outclassed. When you're a god among men, why would you care about ants? The only possible reaction to threats by ants is gut-bursting laughter.
hell knight Immunity to fire =D
Grapple the Dragon!
With Greater Grapple, you can initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action and then Maintain it as a Move Action, using the Tie Up action. Most grapplers would achieve a Pin before Tying Up their opponents because tying up your opponents before pinning them imposes a -10 penalty. If you take 2 levels in Cavalier under the Order of the Penitent, you don't take that -10 penalty.
Jiggling around with magic items, feats, and other class abilities, I've been able to chart a multiclassed grappling character's GMB to +34 by level 10.
If the build contains almost any kind of Arcane Spellcaster--I chose Alchemist--the grappler can use True Strike and bring that up to another +20, buffing himself the round before combat. If the grappler is a Quinngong Monk, he or she can use True Strike as a ki power. With judicious use of something like a spell Glyph or a Volatile Vaporizer, the grappler could gain a 2nd True Strike that way, too.
So far, the bonus is +54. If the grappler were under a Touch of Law, his or her roll would be an automatic 65. Now, I read that Great Wyrm Red Dragons had a CMD of 61, not 71, but Incendius is special, so Alexander Karelin here needs some extra buffing for another 6 points. Alter Self, Bull Strength, Enlarge Person, and Aspect of the Bear give +2 each. There was a lively debate on these threads ending in a ruling from the Dev Team that the Amulet of Mighty Fists did not grant a bonus to Grappling checks, but if the Grappler were a Tiefling with Claws, then sufficient levels in Tetori Monk grant those claws the Grab ability, meaning they are being used in the grapple, and the AoMF enhancement bonus should apply to the Grapple via the Claws. I'm achieving the bonus without that, anyway.
Incendius--bless his heart--is wearing a Ring of Freedom of Movement, so he's immune to grapple checks. Tetori Monks have a Ki Power answer for that, but Alexander here can't use his Ki Power for both True Strike and Inescapable Grapple in the same round. He needs so swallow a Volatile Vaporizer Pill Infusion of True Strike to be broken by his Tumor Familiar. Or maybe a carefully crafted Spell Glyph. Or the Ring will have to be destroyed first, say via a character with 3 or more levels in Fighter with the Archer Archetype to Sunder the Ring with Adamantine Arrows. It would take some doing to cozen 60 plusses in archery attack bonuses, but I think it could be done.
Now all I need is a rope strong enough to tie up a Great Wyrm Dragon with. Adamantine Chains come to mind, but the RAW do not describe adamantine chains. The closest thing I can find actually in the RAW is the Dwarven Dorn Dergar, a 10' chain weapon, and those do come in adamantine. If the grappler is enlarged, then the chains are enlarged, too, and should be stronger, but the rules don't describe what happens when this happens.
All this presupposes that the wrestler can reach the Dragon. He will have to be Dimensioned Doored there. The Wizard who DimDors the wrestler to the back of a flying dragon should take care to wear his Ring of Feather Falling.
So careful planning from a level 10 party can make short work of a Great Wyrm Red Dragon.
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I have set up a new thread just for Incendius and his lair. Post a build, see how you do. Note Incendius obviously wears a ring on each of his claws to make identifying his ring of freedom of movement more difficult to sunder. Also his CMD is higher due to his gear.
1 ring, 2 rings, a few more arrows, it's all good. Are you asking me for more details about my build? Am I selling you on my build?
Paladin can get a Brilliant Energy weapon via his Divine Bond.
It's a damn shame that he can't do it with the Oath Against the Wyrm though.
Tetori, DD over the dragon and dimensional agility grapple the dragon the pin that f#!$er and nonlethal him to death.
TheSideKick wrote: Tetori, D&D over the dragon and dimensional agility grapple the dragon the pin that f~!@er and nonlethal him to death.
Major flaw in your plan:
Inescapable Grasp (Su) wrote:
At 9th level, a tetori can spend 1 point from his ki pool to suppress his opponents’ freedom of movement and magical bonuses to Escape Artist or on checks to escape a grapple. At 13th level, this ability also duplicates the effect of dimensional anchor. At 17th level, the tetori’s unarmed strike gains the ghost touch special ability, and an incorporeal creature that he strikes gains the grappled condition (Reflex negates, DC 10 + 1/2 the wrestler’s level + his Wisdom modifier). Inescapable grasp is a swift action and lasts until the beginning of the wrestler’s next turn.
This ability replaces abundant step, improved evasion, timeless body, and tongue of the sun and moon.
No flaw, it's called horizon walker you get DD back
It wasn't necessary until they made that s~$+ty ruling that qinngong can't get abilities back that archetypes take away.
I'd say the major flaw in the plan is expecting to pin the dragon in a single round and hold him there for many rounds to follow. Tetori might be able to get Abundant Step back by level 20 via Qingong Monk. I don't know, I have no idea how many other bucketloads of class features Tetori sacrifices; it's a horrible archetype for an already horrible class so I don't pay much attention to it.
StreamOfTheSky wrote: I'd say the major flaw in the plan is expecting to pin the dragon in a single round and hold him there for many rounds to follow. Tetori might be able to get Abundant Step back by level 20 via Qingong Monk. I don't know, I have no idea how many other bucketloads of class features Tetori sacrifices; it's a horrible archetype for an already horrible class so I don't pay much attention to it. I'm happy for your ignorance, but yeah stop talking until you know what you're talking about lol
Other than this new ruling that Qingong can't give back abilities archetypes take away that I was unaware of, I do know what I'm talking about.
That dragon has obscene CMB/CMD and can utterly destroy the Tetori with natural attacks and/or breath weapon while grappled if it is anything less than pinned at all times. Unless you have at least a +15 edge over it on both monk CMB vs. Dragon CMD and vice-versa, I'm skeptical you'll be able to pin it down long enough to actually kill it before it kills you.
TheSideKick wrote: No flaw, it's called horizon walker you get DD back
It wasn't necessary until they made that s%+&ty ruling that qinngong can't get abilities back that archetypes take away.
TheSideKick wrote: Tetori, DD over the dragon and dimensional agility grapple the dragon the pin that f&%*er and nonlethal him to death. I don't see the words "Horizon Walker" in there so don't even play with me bro.
StreamOfTheSky wrote: Other than this new ruling that Qingong can't give back abilities archetypes take away that I was unaware of, I do know what I'm talking about.
That dragon has obscene CMB/CMD and can utterly destroy the Tetori with natural attacks and/or breath weapon while grappled if it is anything less than pinned at all times. Unless you have at least a +15 edge over it on both monk CMB vs. Dragon CMD and vice-versa, I'm skeptical you'll be able to pin it down long enough to actually kill it before it kills you.
I think my tetori capped at 50 cmb + true strike, and a 61 cmb that good enough for you?
Edit* actually I think it was 71 cmd
Thats beyond impressive,however,it just seems like a Great Wyrm Red doesn't even need to be a shroedingers dragon to have an answer for that... :/ I think it would take a pretty well rounded character, i.e. one that has good melee AND ranged skills, some casting if not alot of casting, and good saves for sure. Wizard, Magus, Paladin, Ranger , Bard , Inquisitor , summoner , Cleric/oracle even druid or witch all seem like good possibilities. Gunslinger just seems too limited outside a theoretical "arena" were conditions are favorable, same with a melee Barbarian or monk. Few of those could solo a Great Wyrm that is prepared, on it's own turf, with support. I do think it's possible for one or two well rounded, well prepared mythics to eke out a win though!
My grappler needs to hitch a ride with some other wizard who DD's him to the dragon.
And who said anything about pinning? I'm going straight to tying him up!
I didn't realize how cool Horizon Walker is. I'll have to think of a way to work a dip into my build.
For people planning to grapple Incendius do you have a plan for when he ceases flying and plummets into the 100' deep pit of lava in his lair taking you with him? Also as yet you cannot actually see him due to the smoke and the combination of Mind Blank and Greater Invisibility.
StreamOfTheSky wrote: I'd say the major flaw in the plan is expecting to pin the dragon in a single round and hold him there for many rounds to follow. Tetori might be able to get Abundant Step back by level 20 via Qingong Monk. I don't know, I have no idea how many other bucketloads of class features Tetori sacrifices; it's a horrible archetype for an already horrible class so I don't pay much attention to it. Each class is horrible in its own special way. Especially if you are melee character, they way to awesomeness is to dip a little here and a little there putting together the awesome combinations of feats and abilities that go awesome together, the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup approach to character building, if you will.
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote: Add the help from all the bound planer creatures. Add the difficulty of the Lair as well. I would put it a 24 pushing 25. Per SRD
"An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you."
"Line of Effect
A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier."
Weakness is to get the effect blocked by going inside the dragon. The barrier exists outside the creature. So sorcerer teleports inside.
Cross-blooded level 20 sorcerer, Draconic and Orc bloodlines. Feats and traits to get +5CL minimum. Take improved spell penetration and the other SR beating feats. Rime Spell Polar Ray. Cast with a Piercing Metamagic Rod to get 5 more SR shaved off. Should be going against 24 SR at this point, which is more manageable.
Even if it stops time you aren't affected because you are inside of it. Probably a few rounds before engulf rules kick in and kill you. Lasting a few rounds in there, you'll be able to hit him with Polar Ray at least once a round. First time he fails, he's eating 25d6+100 cold damge from inside his gut.
I'd say most DMs would agree that antimagic shield is like any other spell -- it needs line-of-effect.
Second idea:
Oath Against the Wyrm Paladin. Stack with Divine Hunter. Fire arrows that function as holy word. The arrows are imbued with this ability outside the antimagic field.
The text talking about inside the barrier doesn't mention supernatural abilities -- only spells. Therefore supernatural abilities can enter the antimagic field after they've resolved. The arrows technically aren't magical if they're just empowered by smite evil. Spell seems to mention nothing about supernatural projectiles entering the space..
All depends on DM interpretation of how effective Antimagic shell is, I guess.
andreww wrote: For people planning to grapple Incendius do you have a plan for when he ceases flying and plummets into the 100' deep pit of lava in his lair taking you with him? Also as yet you cannot actually see him due to the smoke and the combination of Mind Blank and Greater Invisibility. The smoke doesn't do more than invisibility, and finding an invisbible creature, or a creature in smoke, requires a DC 20 Perception Check, or Stealth +20. What is the Colossal Monsters Stealth Mod without Invisibility? I don't suppose it's very high. Having spotted the invisible monster, or located him through the smoke, he still enjoys total concealment, a 50% miss chance. Miss chances are completely negated by the Seeking ranged weapon enchantment and by True Strike. They are reduced by Blind Fighting and Improved and Greater Blind Fighting. The miss chance for your grapple opponent also disappears once you are in a grapple, though I seem to recall some penalty.
To eliminate damage from falling, I was thinking Boots of the Cat. It's a 500gp magic item that causes all the damage dice of a fall to roll as 1's, so a 100' fall would inflict 10 points of damage. I don't have an answer for the lava (But I'll GET ONE!). I was not envisioning fighting the dragon in his lair, but rather counterattacking as he was attacking the Town.
The presumption of the dragon encounter is that we have already outplayed him in his game with his with his minions and spies: we have a complete list of stats, and we have a general layout of his lair. So, we must have already won the War of Intelligence with the Dragon by the time he bursts out of the mountain hissing, "I am Fire. I am Death!" We would have convinced the Townsfolk to side with us over him: paid off their debts, convinced them to stop sacrificing virgins to him, and so on.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: The smoke doesn't do more than invisibility, and finding an invisbible creature, or a creature in smoke, requires a DC 20 Perception Check, or Stealth +20. What is the Colossal Monsters Stealth Mod without Invisibility? I don't suppose it's very high. Having spotted the invisible monster, or located him through the smoke, he still enjoys total concealment, a 50% miss chance. Miss chances are completely negated by the Seeking ranged weapon enchantment and by True Strike. They are reduced by Blind Fighting and Improved and Greater Blind Fighting. The miss chance for your grapple opponent also disappears once you are in a grapple, though I seem to recall some penalty. I would consider the smoke, given it entirely blocks line of sight, prevents you from making visual perception checks instead. You are in effect blind and it is also invisible.
Quote: To eliminate damage from falling, I was thinking Boots of the Cat. It's a 500gp magic item that causes all the damage dice of a fall to roll as 1's, so a 100' fall would inflict 10 points of damage. I don't have an answer for the lava (But I'll GET ONE!). I was not envisioning fighting the dragon in his lair, but rather counterattacking as he was attacking the Town. There are two problems with this. First you cannot determine which town or city of your kingdom it will teleport above and burn to the ground as divinations cannot penetrate his mind blank. Secondly he assaults them from the air from 200' up using at will wall of fire and then moving up to 250' per round while invisible. Finding him will be difficult, catching him even more so.
Quote: The presumption of the dragon encounter is that we have already outplayed him in his game with his with his minions and spies: we have a complete list of stats, and we have a general layout of his lair. So, we must have already won the War of Intelligence with the Dragon by the time he bursts out of the mountain hissing, "I am Fire. I am Death!" We would have convinced the Townsfolk to side with us over him: paid off their debts, convinced them to stop sacrificing virgins to him, and so on. I provided a set of stats to indicate the sort of thing you might be looking at from a great wyrm dragon with actual gear. The one presented as the base form is little challenge to any caster with a decent level of optimisation of a highly focused partial caster or martial.
You are allowed a chance to make Perception checks to find creatures even in smoke.
I wrote:
To eliminate damage from falling, I was thinking Boots of the Cat. It's a 500gp magic item that causes all the damage dice of a fall to roll as 1's, so a 100' fall would inflict 10 points of damage. I don't have an answer for the lava (But I'll GET ONE!). I was not envisioning fighting the dragon in his lair, but rather counterattacking as he was attacking the Town.
Then andrew wrote:
There are two problems with this. First you cannot determine which town or city of your kingdom it will teleport above and burn to the ground as divinations cannot penetrate his mind blank. Secondly he assaults them from the air from 200' up using at will wall of fire and then moving up to 250' per round while invisible. Finding him will be difficult, catching him even more so.
Your response doesn't particularly speak to what I was saying. And now you're talking about yet another scenario, one where this dragon makes random appearances in far-flung regions of the world. We might never know he even has a lair without many encounters and rumors and lead-following. Vis a vis the character I presented, he only requires 1-2 rounds to prepare. Dimension Door has an 800' range when cast by an 8th level wizard and a 540' range when cast by a level 3 Horizon Walker, well able to reach the cruising altitudes you are proposing.
You perception penalties are fairly substantial at that point. -20 or more for distance, -40 for invisibility if he is remaining stationary.
Whoa. Although true seeing or some other effect could pierce through the smoke?
andreww wrote: For people planning to grapple Incendius do you have a plan for when he ceases flying and plummets into the 100' deep pit of lava in his lair taking you with him? Also as yet you cannot actually see him due to the smoke and the combination of Mind Blank and Greater Invisibility. yes boots of the cat(minimum fall damage), and fire resistance + true sight goggles. all things i have on my tetori that i play. ive done this to 4 dragons now. my character developed counter strategies for every color of dragon. water dragons are the worst, red is pretty easy to kill.
my gm stopped using them against me lol.
True Seeing will not penetrate smoke. You will truly see the smoke. In my campaign, while under the influence of a True Seeing spell, you would also not be able to see a reflection in the mirror nor read writing on a page. I would say things like "You see a marked-up piece of paper," or "you see a mirror." How did Raistlin put it, "He says it makes you see things a little too truly." (Tasslehoff, in Dragons of Winter Night).
Both Arcane Eye and Clairvoyance would eliminate the range problem associated with making perception checks. They don't penetrate invisibility, but a good Perception roll would. Clairvoyance particularly includes Clairaudiance, and you might hear exactly where the dragon was even if you couldn't see him.
Arcane Eye won't won't see Mind Blanked creatures, sorry for bringing that up.
Great Wryrm Red Dragons usually have a Dex of 6, and a Colossal Size gives them a -16 on Stealth Checks. Hiding in a cloud of smoke would give it a +20, +40 if immobile, but a Dragon Would not be immobile while flying, and would be flying at more than half speed. At full speed, Inendius pretty much has no chance of hiding or being not spotted, according to the rules describing Stealth. If he were moving at less than half speed, he'd get his +20 for invisibility, but take a -18 on his Stealth check due to his size and Dex. You would need to make a Perception DC 2. Perception DC's go up by +1 for every 10' At 100' overhead, the DC goes up to 12. If the Dragon were 100' up and 250' (1 round's flying) what is the DC to spot him?
100squared + 250squared = real distance squared
10000 + 62500 = 72500 => the real distance is about 270' away when the dragon is 1 round distant at a height of 100', Shrouded in smoke, moving at less than half speed (assuming he can even do that while flying with his "Clumsy" maneuverability) the DC to find him is 29. Still doable by characters who make a Perception skill commitment through level through to level 10.
I think the party should be able to find the dragon flying overhead breathing fire and burning up towns and stuff. I think Oedipus could find the Dragon. The smoke is useful: Total Conealment still confers the 50% miss chance, but it seems that the whole idea of a flying, Great Wyrm Red Dragon is that you can see him, everyone can see him. A suckling puppy who's eyes haven't opened yet can see him.
An Ancient Red Dragon's Sense Motive is +33 and at best rolls of 53. Walaver walks in and at Level 9 with an autosuccess on bluff of 105 convinces the dragon of an impossible lie of why he needs to kill himself, even if we attached a -50 modifier to this lie. Let's say it was a -60, then with reading a blue book and a Honeytongue elixer, he clears that easily too.
If you want to make this even easier, pageant of the peacock for an absurd 100+ result on knowledge-whatever for dragons so you can know absolutely anything and everything about them to make the lie more convincing.
andreww wrote: You perception penalties are fairly substantial at that point. -20 or more for distance, -40 for invisibility if he is remaining stationary. In the previously mentioned thread at one point I described my great wyrm as lying more or less near totally submerged in lava ... think crocodile like, just a pair of eyes atop a head the rest submerged enjoying the warmth.
Mind Blank blocks all divination. That includes True Seeing, See Invisibility, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Arcane Eye etc. It will even foil Wish or Miracle if "they are used in such a way as to gain information about the target". One is not finding or learning about him via Divination magic unless you go about it rather sideways.
Dwarf luring cavalier musketeer ronin
2x will saves.
specialization, greater, penetrating strike
dwarven cavalier favored class for extra challenge damage
they gain extra range and auto improved crit
free group tactical feats (extra attack if another ranged character hits)
15th level auto crit from ronin
I played this character dragons were an irrelevance (most things were including a god avatar or some lame 2rnd fodder I didn't catch the name of at campaigns end).
With point blank,deadly aim, spec and greater, a level relevant magical pistol and +x2 level to damage it was just stupid never mind auto crit 1x per day and ignoring DR.
MattR1986 wrote: An Ancient Red Dragon's Sense Motive is +33 and at best rolls of 53. Walaver walks in and at Level 9 with an autosuccess on bluff of 105 convinces the dragon of an impossible lie of why he needs to kill himself, even if we attached a -50 modifier to this lie. Let's say it was a -60, then with reading a blue book and a Honeytongue elixer, he clears that easily too.
If you want to make this even easier, pageant of the peacock for an absurd 100+ result on knowledge-whatever for dragons so you can know absolutely anything and everything about them to make the lie more convincing.
I'm fairly certain most GM's aren't going to let that fly even if you could beat a DC 200 (or other large ridiculous number) check on your Bluff.
Half-Orc Hateful Rager with a +5 Furious Courageous Dragon Bane Keen Falchion.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Both Arcane Eye and Clairvoyance would eliminate the range problem associated with making perception checks. They don't penetrate invisibility, but a good Perception roll would. Clairvoyance particularly includes Clairaudiance, and you might hear exactly where the dragon was even if you couldn't see him. Both of these have a casting time of 10 minutes and the perception DC to notice the sensor they create is 20. They successfully manage to alert him to your presence while failing to spot him due to Mind Blank.
Kayerloth wrote: MattR1986 wrote: An Ancient Red Dragon's Sense Motive is +33 and at best rolls of 53. Walaver walks in and at Level 9 with an autosuccess on bluff of 105 convinces the dragon of an impossible lie of why he needs to kill himself, even if we attached a -50 modifier to this lie. Let's say it was a -60, then with reading a blue book and a Honeytongue elixer, he clears that easily too.
If you want to make this even easier, pageant of the peacock for an absurd 100+ result on knowledge-whatever for dragons so you can know absolutely anything and everything about them to make the lie more convincing.
I'm fairly certain most GM's aren't going to let that fly even if you could beat a DC 200 (or other large ridiculous number) check on your Bluff. Pretty much this. It doesn't matter how high your Bluff skill is Bluff is not mind control and the skill description includes this:
Quote: Note that some lies are so improbable that it is impossible to convince anyone that they are true (subject to GM discretion). Now you may think ridiculously high bluff checks should be able to mimic mind control and I wouldn't disagree with you but as things stand I cannot see this flying.
I suppose the cheesy wins are out. Like I plane shift and beg my deity to get rid of all his unfair advantages. Or I Wish that his lair was flooded by the river Styx.
I'm not going to read 2 pages of posts, but consider this spell:
Quench
School transmutation; Level druid 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area or Target one 20-ft. cube/level (S) or one fire-based magic item
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none or Will negates (object); Spell Resistance no or yes (object)
Quench is often used to put out forest fires and other conflagrations. It extinguishes all nonmagical fires in its area. The spell also dispels any fire spells in its area, though you must succeed on a dispel check (1d20 +1 per caster level, maximum +15) against each spell to dispel it. The DC to dispel such spells is 11 + the caster level of the fire spell.
Each creature with the fire subtype within the area of a quench spell takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d6, no save allowed).
Alternatively, you can target the spell on a single magic item that creates or controls flame. The item loses all its fire-based magical abilities for 1d4 hours unless it succeeds on a Will save. Artifacts are immune to this effect.
High enough level caster is doing this twice a round (with quickened), consider it can be from a earth elementel traveling by earthglide with tremorsense (with cave domain) or a fire elemental.
Add a second druid (cohort or another PC) and picture 40d6 per round, no save or SR.
Cornielius wrote: I'm not going to read 2 pages of posts, but consider this spell:
Quench
School transmutation; Level druid 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area or Target one 20-ft. cube/level (S) or one fire-based magic item
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none or Will negates (object); Spell Resistance no or yes (object)
Quench is often used to put out forest fires and other conflagrations. It extinguishes all nonmagical fires in its area. The spell also dispels any fire spells in its area, though you must succeed on a dispel check (1d20 +1 per caster level, maximum +15) against each spell to dispel it. The DC to dispel such spells is 11 + the caster level of the fire spell.
Each creature with the fire subtype within the area of a quench spell takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d6, no save allowed).
Alternatively, you can target the spell on a single magic item that creates or controls flame. The item loses all its fire-based magical abilities for 1d4 hours unless it succeeds on a Will save. Artifacts are immune to this effect.
High enough level caster is doing this twice a round (with quickened), consider it can be from a earth elementel traveling by earthglide with tremorsense (with cave domain) or a fire elemental.
Add a second druid (cohort or another PC) and picture 40d6 per round, no save or SR.
Add Intensify Spell. That makes it 60d6 (ie. 210 damage) per round.
Did somebody say, "Cheesy win?" I was going to keep this secret, but how about this?
The Fabricate Spell + a Decanter of Endless Water. Use your Craft Alchemy Skill to turn the geyser of water into a geyser of acid. The geyser generates 30 gallons/round. that is 240 flasks/acid, and 1d6/flask, that is 840hp/round, on average.
When creating mineral products like this, the area of effect is 1cuft/round, but 1 cubic foot is 13.5 gallons, so a level 9 Wizard or Artifice Cleric--the lowest levels that can cast Fabricate--can produce 121.5 gallons of water this way, and we need is 30. You are required to have the cost value's worth of the raw materials required to produce that volume, so that's 3600gp/rounds worth of acid handy. That's an expensive attack, but worth it sometimes.
The volume of raw material could fit in a Bag of Holding, and if you leave it open, it would be causally linked via the opening. It's still a problem to get within 20' of the monster. You need to be a level 3 Horizon Walker.
Daenar wrote: Wondering what class/archetype/ feats/spells/ abilities work best to efficiently kill a smart Great Wyrm Red. Paladin oath against wyrms? Admixture blaster converting fire spells to cold? Ranger with favored enemy? What is THE BEST dragonslayer...p.s. race matters, looking to go elf. Bureaucromancer. Because nothing can stand against the power of red tape.
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