I had planned on doing a character similar to Judge Dredd, but I don't know how my DM would feel about firearms (he generally disapproves of things he finds "OP" which I assume would be this.) It did however lead me to Hell Knight, and after my run-ins with them in CotCT (I'm in Mag 5 please no spoilers (: ) I'm really interested in playing one for Reign of Winter which my group is starting soon.
So far I've heard fighter 5 or paladin/house-ruled LE anti-paladin 5, but is there some other way that's better that I'm missing?
My idea currently: LN Angel-blooded/Archon-blooded Aasimar fighter 5 (maybe in weapon master) into Hell Knight right away at 6 with standard feat progression with power attack, furious focus, weapon focus, etc. in probably falchion.
Open to all ideas!
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I'd personally be tempted to go Cavalier. The Horse Master Feat (taken as your 6th level Cavalier Feat right before going into Hellknight, or your 7th level Feat on your 2nd level of Hellknight depending on preference) lets you maintain Animal Companion progression, the skill set seems better, you'd get a couple of Challenges per day...
Go with the Gendarme Archetype for theme and a couple of bonus Feats, and maybe Beast Rider for a better Mount (this'd necessitate buying Heavy Armor Proficiency, but might be worth it anyway...Tiger riding Hellknight? Yeah, that sounds cool), and you seem pretty well set to mess people up.
Several of the Orders (Lion, Star, and Dragon leap to mind) are very solid thematically for a Hellknight as well.
Feats would probably mostly be the same, though a mounted combat Feat or two wouldn't hurt.
Thanks everyone! Cavalier definitely sounds good, and I'll go medium for as little cheese as possible and probably Gendarme and Beast Rider to get a tiger at 4th. Question though: I'm new to mounted combat but can you take your action at any point during your mount's movement? For instance order of the Cockatrice's standard action Dazzling Display: can I use that as I ride by a target? Or do I have to end my mount's move wherever I take the action? Sorry if this is written plainly somewhere that I missed.
Depends. A mount is like another character. So you could use your standard action to ready a dazzling display at a certain point and it would then occur where you designated.
That makes a lot of sense actually, thanks :D
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Thanks everyone! Cavalier definitely sounds good, and I'll go medium for as little cheese as possible and probably Gendarme and Beast Rider to get a tiger at 4th.
Sadly, I think you need to wait for 7th for a tiger since it needs to be ride-able.
What Order are you thinking? I'd personally recommend Dragon, though Cockatrice and several others aren't bad either.
Question though: I'm new to mounted combat but can you take your action at any point during your mount's movement? For instance order of the Cockatrice's standard action Dazzling Display: can I use that as I ride by a target? Or do I have to end my mount's move wherever I take the action? Sorry if this is written plainly somewhere that I missed.
No reason you can't take it whenever you like, though sans the Mounted Skirmisher feat you can't do a melee full attack (though you can do a ranged one).
I was thinking of Cockatrice, but why would you personally choose Dragon?
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I was thinking of Cockatrice, but why would you personally choose Dragon?
Hellknights are often cruel, but they aren't, as a group, selfish (which is Cockatrice's whole ethos), indeed, in a sense they're extremely selfless, putting the law above their own well-being. An Order valuing loyalty to some external force (ie: Dragon, Lion, Star, etc.) seems more appropriate.
And of those, Dragon and Star are the only one that makes sense for the whole of Reign of winter, and Dragon is better mechanically (giving the whole PC group including yourself a bonus to hit your Challenge target is really nice).
I like the hell knights as well. Let us know how the playing goes. I think it would be a fun class to play.
Does Dragon's ability not apply only when you are threatening the target? That seems like it'll be useful before I get ride-by and when I can't be charging, which given is useful but not in ideal situations. That or my idea of a cavalier is a bit 2-dimensional, which is also possible.
I'd be happy to give updates once we've started playing.
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Does Dragon's ability not apply only when you are threatening the target? That seems like it'll be useful before I get ride-by and when I can't be charging, which given is useful but not in ideal situations. That or my idea of a cavalier is a bit 2-dimensional, which is also possible.
Yeah, it's only when threatening...which honestly makes it less situational than the Cockatrice challenge bonus, which you'll seldom get to use at all if you have other melee PCs and are focusing fire. At least the Dragon bonus will never be denied to you. And rarely to your animal companion.
And I'd expect to get bogged down in melee pretty regularly at early levels, and to fight un-mounted (possibly using your mount as a flanking buddy) a certain amount of the time all through your career, so it's still likely to come up. I might also expect you to want to stay in melee, especially if going Beast Rider. A Lance Charge (which is the only kind Ride By Attack is worth getting to use repeatedly) potentially denies your Tiger their own Full Attack due to reach issues...which makes it suddenly a lot less worth it, given how nice a pouncing tiger animal companion is.
I'd be happy to give updates once we've started playing.
Please do!
One thing to note about the Beast Rider archetype: Since it replaces the Expert Trainer ability, you can't take Horse Master to keep your effective level up for your mount. Unless, of course, your GM rules otherwise.
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One thing to note about the Beast Rider archetype: Since it replaces the Expert Trainer ability, you can't take Horse Master to keep your effective level up for your mount. Unless, of course, your GM rules otherwise.
Crap, you're right. I totally missed that.
Ah well, Horses are actually not a bad Animal Companion anyway, and you can always go Half Orc and take Beast Rider to get something more exotic...though alas no Tigers. :(
Well I just talked to my DM and he said cavalier isn't a good idea and that he isn't convinced Hell Knight makes sense. Can't say I didn't entirely see this coming, he's not a huge fan of variety; said core and APG for classes. I will definitely play this character, but not as soon as I'd hoped I guess.
Anyone have any ideas for something fun to play? I'm really interested in playing a monk, as my last monk opened a door into 3 rogues and failed was snuck attack to death: anyone know a good build for a monk? Other ideas would be great too, all mine thus far have been shot down.
I gave him paladin, armored gunslinger into justiciar, and AGslinger or cavalier into hell knight, all of which were a no. The last two were my ideas of going into Dredd, and I don't know if there are any others that I'd be super interested in, since I'm 100% sure he won't let me play a Judge from the Judge Dredd d20.
TL;DR No, just something interesting to play. :)
He implied we'll be far from mainland Golarion and that it wouldn't fit.
What else is in your party? Advice on Class is hard to give in a vacuum.
I haven't talked to the other players about it, I haven't seen them recently enough. So I don't actually know yet.
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He implied we'll be far from mainland Golarion and that it wouldn't fit.
This is at least partially true. I'd personally say you were a Hellknight apprentice (spacing the term) to start with and just go with that in terms of justification, but I can see where your GM is coming from to some degree.
I haven't talked to the other players about it, I haven't seen them recently enough. So I don't actually know yet.
Well, Bard is always fun and useful, and Witch is very thematically appropriate. If going melee, I'm a big fan of Barbarian...it all depends what you're looking for.
He implied we'll be far from mainland Golarion and that it wouldn't fit.This is at least partially true. I'd personally say you were a Hellknight apprentice (spacing the term) to start with and just go with that in terms of justification, but I can see where your GM is coming from to some degree.
I haven't talked to the other players about it, I haven't seen them recently enough. So I don't actually know yet.Well, Bard is always fun and useful, and Witch is very thematically appropriate. If going melee, I'm a big fan of Barbarian...it all depends what you're looking for.
I've never had a PC bard in a party, only NPC bards. I've played mainly paladins, fighters, magus, etc. How can I more easily transition this into something more like a bard? I wouldn't mind playing one, but playing a full support character seems very boring imo.
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I've never had a PC bard in a party, only NPC bards. I've played mainly paladins, fighters, magus, etc. How can I more easily transition this into something more like a bard? I wouldn't mind playing one, but playing a full support character seems very boring imo.
Who says Bards are a full support character? First, you take the lead in social stuff and usually in skill-based things as well (which tend to be a fair portion of the game), and second, both melee and archer Bards are actually quite solid in a fight. They're not quite on par with full-on martial characters, but they're solid if built properly. Heck, Dawnflower Dervishes are probably on par with more martial classes, though they give up some serious party buffing to do it and may be a bit off-theme for Reign of Winter...but then again, maybe not, fire vs. ice has some style to it.
Who says Bards are a full support character? First, you take the lead in social stuff and usually in skill-based things as well (which tend to be a fair portion of the game), and second, both melee and archer Bards are actually quite solid in a fight. They're not quite on par with full-on martial characters, but they're solid if built properly. Heck, Dawnflower Dervishes are probably on par with more martial classes, though they give up some serious party buffing to do it and may be a bit off-theme for Reign of Winter...but then again, maybe not, fire vs. ice has some style to it.
You said previously you were a big fan of barbies for melee, and after seeing the absolute devastation our barbie wreaked every round in CotCT, I'm curious to play one. I know I change my mind about characters frequently; I'm very finicky. This is only a rough idea of the progression but how does this sound to you?
Human Barbarian: Invulnerable Rager(paired with Drunken Brute?)
Ability Scores: 17, 14, 15, 8, 10, 8 with boost at lvl 4 into Str and lvl 8 into Con.
Replace skilled with Heart of the Fields for fatigue ignore 1/day and put FCB into superstition bonus
Using a 2-handed weapon(greatsword/falchion?) and getting breastplate when available.
Take Power Attack and Raging Vitality, Extra Rage Power: Superstition, Improved Sunder for eventual Spell Sunder, Combat Reflexes into eventual Come and Get Me.
Rage Powers: Lesser Beast Totem lvl 2 for 3 attacks at full base, Superstition, maybe Strength Surge for sundering?, Reckless Abandon, Beast Totem, Gtr Beast Totem, Witch Hunter, Spell Sunder.
Not everything is in the order that I would be taking it, but just looking for general input on usefulness and optimization of trees etc.
Edit: Apologies again if this looks/is disorganized, I wrote it while watching OGN Champions Spring.
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Mostly looks solid to me. Personally, I'd drop Cha to 7 and raise either Int or Wis. With an 8 and no class skills, well, you might as well go all the way. I'd probably go with the Int 10, honestly. Makes the GM more likely to not b~$#! about stat-dumping (well, and I hate playing dumb characters).
Drunken Brute's an either/or thing (you could take it or not, both are viable), but if doing it, grab Heavy Armor Proficiency somewhere in there, there's no reason not to at that point.
It's also worth noting that Lesser Beast Totem only gives two attacks, not three. It's solid, but I'd still switch the order of it and Superstition. I'd also skip Reckless Abandon, it and Come And Get Me together are just overkill, and leave you too vulnerable defensively.
Make sure to grab Cold Resistance and Endure Elements (Cold), since it's Reign of Winter and you're going Invulnerable Rager.
My preferred Feat/Rage Power order for the things you suggest:
1: Power Attack, Raging Vitality,
2: Superstition
3: Heavy Armor Proficiency (if going Drunken Brute, otherwise move all the other Feats down two levels)
4: Lesser Beast Totem
5: Furious Focus
6: Beast Totem
7: Extra Rage Power (Strength Surge)
8: Witch Hunter
9: Extra Rage Power (Spell Sunder)
10: Greater Beast Totem
11: Combat Reflexes
12: Come And Get Me
Beyond that? Honestly, I'd burn any additional Rage Powers and possibly Feats on Increased Damage Reduction. Though Stalwart and Improved Stalwart are also options, and might combine well with taking Reckless Abandon depending on your preferences...that's all post 12th level for the most part, though.
It's also worth noting that Lesser Beast Totem only gives two attacks, not three.
Does that not allow me to, on a full attack, Greatsword-claw-claw for 3 attacks at full BAB?
1: Power Attack, Raging Vitality
2: Superstition
3: Heavy Armor Proficiency (if going Drunken Brute, otherwise move all the other Feats down two levels)
4: Lesser Beast Totem
5: Furious Focus
6: Beast Totem
7: Extra Rage Power (Strength Surge)
8: Witch Hunter
9: Extra Rage Power (Spell Sunder)
10: Greater Beast Totem
11: Combat Reflexes
12: Come And Get Me
Looks good to me. I assume Heavy Armor if going Drunken Brute is to take advantage of the move speed I'm giving up anyway? I don't know that I will actually take Drunken Brute though, probably just Invulnerable Rager.
I'd also skip Reckless Abandon, it and Come And Get Me together are just overkill, and leave you too vulnerable defensively.
The barbarian player I mentioned earlier in thread, when raging and Reckless Abandoning IIRC had an AC of 6 at about level 10. But if my AC is going to be low enough that anything of average CR will wail on my face, is it not better to maximize my offense in an attempt to mitigate the poor defense?
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Does that not allow me to, on a full attack, Greatsword-claw-claw for 3 attacks at full BAB?
Sadly, no. Claws are on your hands. If they're on your feet they're called talons. You get a Greatsword attack or the two claws, not both. You could also do a Longsword + 1 Claw...but that's silly since the claw would become secondary.
Looks good to me. I assume Heavy Armor if going Drunken Brute is to take advantage of the move speed I'm giving up anyway? I don't know that I will actually take Drunken Brute though, probably just Invulnerable Rager.
Yeah, basically. Like I said, drop it in that case. Maybe grab it at 9 or 11 if you think you can get a hold of some Mithral Fullplate.
The barbarian player I mentioned earlier in thread, when raging and Reckless Abandoning IIRC had an AC of 6 at about level 10. But if my AC is going to be low enough that anything of average CR will wail on my face, is it not better to maximize my offense in an attempt to mitigate the poor defense?
By 10th a Barbarian in a Breastplate can easily have AC of 26 (+9 Armor, +2 Dex, +1 Ring, +1 Amulet, +1 Jingasa, +1 Ioun Stone, +3 Beast Totem, -2 Rage) for around 23 k out of his 62 (leaving 15 for a Cord of Stubborn Resolve, 18 for a +3 weapon, 9 for a +3 cloak and some left over). He could easily have more if he went with Full Plate (28 or so...which is quite a bit better and advisable, therefore). The Jingasa and Ioun stone are admittedly iffy if you don't have someone with Craft Wondrous Item...but why in the world wouldn't you? And at that level improving the ring and amulet is almost as cheap. That's not a ridiculous AC, but it's not an auto-hit for most foes either, and getting hit by 1/2 of attacks is quite a bit better than getting hit by all (especially crits...)
The idea that Barbarians all have low AC is silly. You can choose to ditch AC on any character, and Barbarians are more likely to survive it than most, but it's hardly a requirement.
Sadly, no. Claws are on your hands. If they're on your feet they're called talons. You get a Greatsword attack or the two claws, not both. You could also do a Longsword + 1 Claw...but that's silly since the claw would become secondary.
I was about to ask about this, then I found the line under Natural Attacks about weapons clutched in hands, so nevermind. That's sad. Are they not very useful then?
By 10th a Barbarian in a Breastplate can easily have AC of 26 (+9 Armor, +2 Dex, +1 Ring, +1 Amulet, +1 Jingasa, +1 Ioun Stone, +3 Beast Totem, -2 Rage) for around 23 k out of his 62 (leaving 15 for a Cord of Stubborn Resolve, 18 for a +3 weapon, 9 for a +3 cloak and some left over). He could easily have more if he went with Full Plate. The Jingasa and Ioun stone are admittedly iffy if you don't have someone with Craft Wondrous Item...but why in the world wouldn't you? And at that level improving the ring and amulet is almost as cheap.
Someone else that knows the glory that is the Jingasa, finally. He was an Urban Barbie so he would've needed to take both medium and heavy proficiency as feats, so I guess he found it easier to not have an AC then try with that low of a proficiency on a 15 pt. buy.
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I was about to ask about this, then I found the line under Natural Attacks about weapons clutched in hands, so nevermind. That's sad. Are they not very useful then?
Solid backup weapons for if you get disarmed or grappled or something. And they open the door to the other Beast Totem Rage Powers which are great.
Someone else that knows the glory that is the Jingasa, finally.
Well yeah, that thing is great. I'm totally eventually grabbing it on my Oracle/Barbarian. Of course he has Fate's Favored, making it even better...
He was an Urban Barbie so he would've needed to take both medium and heavy proficiency as feats, so I guess he found it easier to not have an AC then try with that low of a proficiency on a 15 pt. buy.
As a Strength character? Yeah, that'd likely be too hard to manage. Dex-based Urban Barbarians are another story, of course.
Well yeah, that thing is great. I'm totally eventually grabbing it on my Oracle/Barbarian. Of course he has Fate's Favored, making it even better...
That just makes it even better, nice!
Have you ever had a problem with the amount of rage rounds you have a day, or does that seem to be generally covered pretty well usually? That's really the only thing I'm concerned about with this character is that I'll waste it or be too afraid to use enough rounds or something.
Thanks for all your help by the way!
I was just looking at Hellknight to see what I would do to a Pathfinder Judge Dredd. It seems to me that the most Judge Dredd Hellknight character is the Hell Knight Enforcer, the Cleric Hell Knight. They are the ones whose faces are always covered, who can look at a servo droid and see the computer hacker hiding inside it. Get there via Inquisitor, maybe, get Bane on any weapon you happen to pick up. Inquisistor abilities and feats combine well with combat builds.
IMO it seems that if one was looking to play something geared more towards Judge Anderson, one would go with Enforcer. I can see where you're coming from though; some of the abilities to lend themselves easily to Dredd. Only conflict with Enforcer and Anderson is wearing the mask.
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That just makes it even better, nice!
Indeed. :)
Have you ever had a problem with the amount of rage rounds you have a day, or does that seem to be generally covered pretty well usually? That's really the only thing I'm concerned about with this character is that I'll waste it or be too afraid to use enough rounds or something.
At 1st, you only have 6 rounds. That's enough for maybe two fights, so use them wisely. By 4th, you have 12 rounds. That's enough for three or four fights, but you still need to be a little careful. By 8th, you have 21 rounds and can basically stop worrying.
The basic way I'd do it is ask "If I was a spellcaster would I use one of my highest level slots on this fight?" if so, Rage, if not, don't. That remains true until about level 7 or 8, at which point you really can basically stop worrying altogether.
Or just burn when you feel like it until you're down to three to five rounds (maybe more when you're getting pretty up there in levels), then save them until you're clearly in the boss fight.
And, of course, Drunken Brute makes all your worries go away, as you have literally limitless rage. Well, limitless as long as the booze holds out, anyway. It's got consequences, sure...but it's still handy as hell.
Thanks for all your help by the way!
You're very welcome. Always happy to be of assistance. :)
Go Half Orc, take Power Attack as your Feat. Grab the Sacred Tattoo and Shaman's Apprentice alternate racial traits.
For Traits, take Fate's Favored, which will combine with Sacred Tattoo to add +2 to all your saves...for a +8 Fort, +3 Ref, and +5 Will while raging at 1st level.
Was browsing advice and actually came across this. Since I can keep the FCB either way, is this not better in nearly every way to getting the bonus feat, since I'm getting effectively 3 traits in a +2 bonus to all my saves along with a vision enhancer, plus the backstory reasoning of a falchion? I'd only have to push back my feat progression by pushing Furious Focus to 7th or removing Strength Surge or something along those lines. Could easily get rid of Raging Vitality also.
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Was browsing advice and actually came across this. Since I can keep the FCB either way, is this not better in nearly every way to getting the bonus feat, since I'm getting effectively 3 traits in a +2 bonus to all my saves along with a vision enhancer, plus the backstory reasoning of a falchion? I'd only have to push back my feat progression by pushing Furious Focus to 7th or removing Strength Surge or something along those lines. Could easily get rid of Raging Vitality also.Go Half Orc, take Power Attack as your Feat. Grab the Sacred Tattoo and Shaman's Apprentice alternate racial traits.
For Traits, take Fate's Favored, which will combine with Sacred Tattoo to add +2 to all your saves...for a +8 Fort, +3 Ref, and +5 Will while raging at 1st level.
It's a solid build. But never ever get rid of Raging Vitality without replacing it with something else to keep you from dying when you go unconscious. The build you reference uses his free Endurance from Shaman's Apprentice to qualify for Diehard instead (and thus doesn't nee con 15 to start with)...which is a valid way to go (he just never goes unconscious), but definitely grab one or the other by 5th to 7th. Too easy to die coming down from Rage as a Superstition (ie: other PCs don't heal you in combat) Barbarian otherwise.
It's a solid build. But never ever get rid of Raging Vitality without replacing it with something else to keep you from dying when you go unconscious. The build you reference uses his free Endurance from Shaman's Apprentice to qualify for Diehard instead (and thus doesn't nee con 15 to start with)...which is a valid way to go (he just never goes unconscious), but definitely grab one or the other by 5th to 7th. Too easy to die coming down from Rage as a Superstition (ie: other PCs don't heal you in combat) Barbarian otherwise.
Take Raging Vitality at third and get a +2 luck bonus to all saves and the eventual added +1 from Jingasa, assuming I get one. I also then have Endurance and a vision enhancer and will never need to worry about not being able to see/be unarmored in case of a night ambush. Both builds have obvious merits, but I feel that the Half-orc is just more versatile as long as I'm not too interested in having the free feat slot open for Heavy Armor Proficiency until around 9th or so, which is around when I'd maybe have Mithral Full Plate anyhow. I'm not suffering some glaring error in logic am I?
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Take Raging Vitality at third and get a +2 luck bonus to all saves and the eventual added +1 from Jingasa, assuming I get one. I also then have Endurance and a vision enhancer and will never need to worry about not being able to see/be unarmored in case of a night ambush. Both builds have obvious merits, but I feel that the Half-orc is just more versatile as long as I'm not too interested in having the free feat slot open for Heavy Armor Proficiency until around 9th or so, which is around when I'd maybe have Mithral Full Plate anyhow. I'm not suffering some glaring error in logic am I?
Nope, that all sounds right to me.
I'm personally using a variant on the Half-Orc one for my currently planned Oracle 1/Barbarian X, but he's got the additional incentive of getting Divine Favor which is actually pretty sweet with Fate's Favored added (way better than any other 1st level spell at a never-rising CL 1).
I'm personally using a variant on the Half-Orc one for my currently planned Oracle 1/Barbarian X, but he's got the additional incentive of getting Divine Favor which is actually pretty sweet with Fate's Favored added (way better than any other 1st level spell at a never-rising CL 1).
Are you dipping Oracle just for the bit of casting? The only other thing that comes to mind is Lame which kicks in at 5th.
Edit: Ignore me, at Oracle 1/Barbarian 8 it kicks in as well. I know things about things.
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I'm personally using a variant on the Half-Orc one for my currently planned Oracle 1/Barbarian X, but he's got the additional incentive of getting Divine Favor which is actually pretty sweet with Fate's Favored added (way better than any other 1st level spell at a never-rising CL 1).Are you dipping Oracle just for the bit of casting? The only other thing that comes to mind is Lame which kicks in at 5th.
Edit: Ignore me, at Oracle 1/Barbarian 8 it kicks in as well. I know things about things.
Actually, I'm dipping Oracle of Lore for Sidestep Secret and social skills so I can make a high Charisma Barbarian who's still very effective, and Focused Trance plus all the Knowledge Skills as class so I can win at those too. So he's charming, knowledgeable, and murders people with a greataxe. :)
The Lame thing is also totally happening, and the spellcasting is surprisingly nice (+2 to hit and damage 4 fights a day is actually not bad, and eventually I can grab a Wand and do it whenever I have prep time), as is being able to freely use Cleric Wands...but it's the playing a Barbarian who's actually good at all the social and knowledge skills that's the real selling point.
Actually, I'm dipping Oracle of Lore for Sidestep Secret and social skills so I can make a high Charisma Barbarian who's still very effective, and Focused Trance plus all the Knowledge Skills as class so I can win at those too. So he's charming, knowledgeable, and murders people with a greataxe. :)
The Lame thing is also totally happening, and the spellcasting is surprisingly nice (+2 to hit and damage 4 fights a day is actually not bad, and eventually I can grab a Wand and do it whenever I have prep time), as is being able to freely use Cleric Wands...but it's the playing a Barbarian who's actually good at all the social and knowledge skills that's the real selling point.
Ah okay, I can understand the allure of all that. Higher point buy than 15 I assume?
I thought about taking Sidestep Secret or the other Nature version, but with my goal of Come and Get Me, it's extremely counterproductive to dump Dex. I do think taking Oracle at 9 for super easy rage cycling would be really good for me though, so I'll definitely keep that in mind for when that comes around. Though.. my charisma score will be atrocious. So I suppose it is iffy.
Probably the last thing I can imagine I'd have a question about though is why do so many people tend towards greatsword? Is it just a flavor thing? I'm not sure I understand how it's superior mechanically to a falchion except in early levels for the larger base die.
Thanks again for all the assistance though, you've been a huge help with a class I would've otherwise just shied away from.
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Ah okay, I can understand the allure of all that. Higher point buy than 15 I assume?
25, though with no stats over 16 before racials and only one below 10 (and that no lower than 8)...but it's playable in any point buy:
The 15 point-buy version:
Str 18 (16+2) Dex 7 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 15 (Or you could drop Str to 17 and get con to 14...that's likely better, really)
The 25 point buy version I'm actually using:
Str 18 (16+2) Dex 8 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 16
The flaws of the build basically come down to not getting Come And Get Me, ever, and having less HP than many Barbarians. I consider the price worth paying for what I'm getting, but it's definitely not in terms of pure combat optimization. On the other hand, it's a vastly better out-of-combat character for only, IMO, a slight reduction in combat capability.
I thought about taking Sidestep Secret or the other Nature version, but with my goal of Come and Get Me, it's extremely counterproductive to dump Dex. I do think taking Oracle at 9 for super easy rage cycling would be really good for me though, so I'll definitely keep that in mind for when that comes around. Though.. my charisma score will be atrocious. So I suppose it is iffy.
The straight Barbarian build dumping Charisma is flat out better in a fight for the most part (he gets all Rage Powers a level earlier and better, eventualy gets Come And Get Me, doesn't burn a Feat on Extra Revelation, has better initiative and BAB, has more rounds of rage, etc.). Especially at 1st level, when the Oracle Build doesn't even have Rage. The Oracle/Barbarian build I'm using is, IMO, more fun (and more useful outside combat), but that's because I really enjoy being the party face and winning at Knowledge skills, not because it's objectively superior (though it does avoid needing a Cord of Stubborn Resolve to Rage Cycle).
Probably the last thing I can imagine I'd have a question about though is why do so many people tend towards greatsword? Is it just a flavor thing? I'm not sure I understand how it's superior mechanically to a falchion except in early levels for the larger base die.
You're correct, it's thematic. Falchions are a better call mechanically at all but the lowest levels. Nodachis are even better than that, but really anti-theme for most Barbarians, IMO.
Thanks again for all the assistance though, you've been a huge help with a class I would've otherwise just shied away from.
No problem, always happy to be of assistance. :)
Not to necro this thread, but I came back to look at this while doing some extra stuff for the character and came across an issue. Since I'll be going half-orc and taking Shaman's Apprentice and thus being able to take Diehard, should I replace Raging Vitality with Diehard? I've never had Diehard so I'm not sure how functionally useful it is, though it seems like it would be. Just curious for your opinion on this.
I think hellknight is much better than a standard fighter, but the issue is that getting into the prestige class is really difficult, because devil's and hellknights to watch you slay said devil don't just show up when you want them to
EDIT: Raging vitality is much MUCH better than diehard, take it every time.
Diehard is only kind of ok, ragingvitality is amazing
Even if I couldn't play a Hell Knight this time, a friend of mine should be DM'ing a Kingmaker campaign soon enough, so I'll convince him to let me play Dredd. I'm sure he'll be okay with it, as long as I don't overplay it annoyingly.
Thanks for input on Raging Vitality. It does seem better, but then again I've just never seen Diehard used.
But basically, if you're channeling the powers of Hell to enforce the supreme law, it doesn't make a huge amount of sense to be part Angel.
Hellknights can be Lawful Good. There is certainly many works of fiction which feature good characters part of evil institutions because they believe they can do good from within, or change the system itself.
Aasimars can also be evil.