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Shield SLAM! Let the boys be boys

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Benefit: Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check (see Combat). This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Opponents who cannot move back due to a wall or other surface are knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance. You may choose to move with your target if you are able to take a 5-foot step or to spend an action to move this turn.

1. If I have a move or 5ft step open, by this feat and under a bull rush under these circumstances, can I move the entire distance I push back? Example would be, if I have a 5ft then I can follow let's say 15 ft. This feat seems to be exceptional.

2. Moving with the opponent because of unused move or 5ft does that use up the move or 5ft? If not, then on each hit, I can move with.

3. Let's say I moved 10 ft with a move, then standard action for attack. I no longer have a move action, but I do have unused movement with 30ft movement per move action. Can I move with the opponent because I have unused distance, but not a full move left?

4. Do I provoke aoo's on myself when moving with the opponent I'm bull rushing?

5. When bull rushing, what is considered "away"? An opponent not diagonal can only be pushed further away in that direction, or can I push them diagonally, because that too is away? Same with if they are diagonal, can I push them straight?

Is Onyx doing the Shield SLAM? If so they can shield slam the earth back to 1992 when rap was good...;-)
Sczarni
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Yes, please shield slam earth back to the early 90s so I can avoid some of the mistakes I have made.

Also, if available movement doesn't work for this, then would a charge be an exception?

Here is the link to Bull Rush

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Bull-Rush

To move with the target, you need to have movement available.

1) If you BR the target 5' and you have not moved or taken a 5' step, you can take your 5' step. If you move them 15', and have not moved or taken a 15', you can move 15'

2) By RAW, you get 1 move action (and 1 5' step if you do not physically move). By RAW, you cannot break up your move. That said, if you have something like spring attack that allows you to move, attack, and move, I'd allow you to keep moving after the BR. In a home game, I would also allow you to keep moving if you charged (it makes sense).

3) see point 2

4) BR does not state you don't provoke AoO, so normal rules apply. 5' step = no AoO. Move = AoO. This assumes neither you nor enemies have abilities that change this.

5) BR says pushing a target back. That would be moving it further from you then it currently is. so, A is you, B is target, C is where you can move them

edit... Diagram didn't work. I would say any of the 3 squares behind them in relation to you. If you were attacking from west to east , I would say you could push them east, Northeast, or Southeast; If you were attacking from southwest to northeast, I would say you could push them North, Northeast, or east

I was trying to grasp your diagram, but the person doing the slam was apparently doing shadow clone jutsu on it, so I got confused at what you intended.

"You may choose to move with your target if you are able to take a 5-foot step or to spend an action to move this turn."

This is the thing to look at above all else. It says if you have them available to spend, but says nothing about spending them. Like I hope no one goes hard on me for reading this in crazy mode, but by raw, isn't this saying you get to just move with the target for free if you have these options still existing on your turn? Couldn't I 5ft then attack, and still have a move action (not distance) so I gain the benefits.

P= player
T= target
W= wall
X= open spaces
Y= where target can end up

wxw
wxw
wtw
wpw

If I br diagonal, then the target falls prone, what space do they fall on? The space they're currently in, or the closest x?

Y= where target can end up

xyyyx
xxtxx
xxpxx

And

xxyyy
xxtyy
xpxxx

Do these work? Any other directions, especially in the first nonwall diagram?

1. no you can only follow as far as far as movement you have. provided you did not use your move action or 5ft step already. example if you have not taken your move action yet or 5ft step. you can shield slam. you push the target 15ft. you can then use your move action to follow the target while you push them back up to 15ft.

2. yes moving with the target uses up the move action or 5ft.

3. No you can’t move you already used up your move action.

4.Yes if you do for movement out of a threat square by other creatures that threat those squares, but not the target of the bull rush.(because it is part of the bulrush and shield slam allows you to bulrush the target without provoking) This goes back to involuntary movement does not provoke but voluntary does provoke.(example of this is bullrushing with out greater bullrush.) You are choosing to move and you don’t have to so you provoke

5.If you push 15ft you can push them to the 2nd diagonal if only 10ft. or 5ft. you can only move them 1 square diagonal. Movement square rules do not change unless you switch to hexs instead of blocks for your maps.

The point of the feat is to use a push targets away from you and your party members as a free action, and maybe postion your self a little better. had a memeber in my group do this it was very effective at toping full attacks on party. he shield slam the person in front of him knock him back 15ft. then 5ft step. to the other to targets that where out of reach. Then attack them and push them away. it was very effetive for battle feel control, Shield master is a much more powerful feat.

If someone could address the line I pointed out in getting my interpretation, and my diagram too, please.

Also, being tripped, disarmed, or sundered considered being "hit"?

Charge an exception to movement after the hit?

You can only bull rush a creature straight back/away from you, not at an angle. There are different combat maneuvers for different directions (Drag, Reposition).

Rapanuii wrote:
Also, being tripped, disarmed, or sundered considered being "hit"?

No - it says hit by the shield slam attack. Even if you can use your shield for those actions, that's an alternate use of it, and not a slam attack.

Rapanuii wrote:
Charge an exception to movement after the hit?

No, not by the rules. That would be more of an overrun. That said, I would allow it personally.

Sczarni
Daenar wrote:
Is Onyx doing the Shield SLAM? If so they can shield slam the earth back to 1992 when rap was good...;-)

92 was good but 1993 was better.

Majuba wrote:

You can only bull rush a creature straight back/away from you, not at an angle. There are different combat maneuvers for different directions (Drag, Reposition).

Rapanuii wrote:
Also, being tripped, disarmed, or sundered considered being "hit"?

No - it says hit by the shield slam attack. Even if you can use your shield for those actions, that's an alternate use of it, and not a slam attack.

Rapanuii wrote:
Charge an exception to movement after the hit?

No, not by the rules. That would be more of an overrun. That said, I would allow it personally.

Majuba you can push diagonal bullrush says the target has to go strait back and if the target is in diagonal square to you. you push them Diagonal strait back. This just prevents you from trying to zig zag targets around stuff. Your post makes it sound like like you can't preform the maneuver to targets in diagonal sqaures.

Rapanuii- Majuba in the rests of his post is 100% correct, if you want them to end up in total different squares other then strait back from where they were. you have to use the other combat maneuvers.

Rapanuii in your first example you can only bull rush in to the two X squares behind the target. if there was no wall right of the player
and the player was diagonal to the target. you would bull rush him into the wall causing him to falling prone
see this
wxw
wxw
wtw
w p

one the 2nd only this spot can the target end up in that y
xxyxx
xxtxx
xxpxx

in the 3rd in that y
xxxyx
xxtxx
xpxxx

I don't see why it's more of an overrun, when on a charging bull rush, you move with the target up to the rest of your movement, and an overrun results in them letting you by completely, or you knocking them prone while you continue to move through their square.

Again, I find that last line to be interesting. It seems by raw, that if you have an action to move that you can spend, or the availability for a 5ft step, that you can without spending it, move with your target. Like, I get that it makes sense that you move up to what those options reflect, and that they should be spent, but raw seems to be saying otherwise.

The straight line thing makes sense because you're determining your square including over to there to make the line. Later size creatures seems like the exception with how you want to determine the angle you wish to hit.

Bumping

I don't feel what I've pointed out along with my interpretation has been properly addressed. If someone can at least acknowledge my interpretation in how I got it then elaborated that would be helpful.

Sorry for the necro but I couldn't resist...

Krodjin wrote:
92 was good but 1993 was better.

Just keep in mind...

Jeru the Damaja wrote:


Dirty Rotten Scoundrel and my name is Jeru
Utilizing my tools in '92

...also very interesting thread. I think the whole thing about moving in a straight line is gonna cause some table variation. I was hoping to make something work with Shield Slam Imp. Bull Rush and Paired Opportunist while increasing my own reach to 20 or so feet via magic thus provoking iterative AoO and slappin foolz around in circles but sadly I'll only get 2 or 3 slams in before whaking folks out of my threatened area (in theory).

And just in case no one has any idea what everyone is talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ADgCeYJMN4
Alex Mack wrote:

Sorry for the necro but I couldn't resist...

Krodjin wrote:
92 was good but 1993 was better.

Just keep in mind...

Jeru the Damaja wrote:


Dirty Rotten Scoundrel and my name is Jeru
Utilizing my tools in '92
...also very interesting thread. I think the whole thing about moving in a straight line is gonna cause some table variation. I was hoping to make something work with Shield Slam Imp. Bull Rush and Paired Opportunist while increasing my own reach to 20 or so feet via magic thus provoking iterative AoO and slappin foolz around in circles but sadly I'll only get 2 or 3 slams in before whaking folks out of my threatened area (in theory).

I think the really cool thing to do with Shield Slam is take Greater Bull Rush so you can give out Attacks of Opportunity to your buddies. Then take Paired Opportunist so you get the AoO, too.

But now, rather than move with your victim, you want to flank him or back him into a wall with your buddy. Your AoO can be a Shield Slam again, triggering more AoO's
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Alex Mack wrote:

Sorry for the necro but I couldn't resist...

Krodjin wrote:
92 was good but 1993 was better.

Just keep in mind...

Jeru the Damaja wrote:


Dirty Rotten Scoundrel and my name is Jeru
Utilizing my tools in '92
...also very interesting thread. I think the whole thing about moving in a straight line is gonna cause some table variation. I was hoping to make something work with Shield Slam Imp. Bull Rush and Paired Opportunist while increasing my own reach to 20 or so feet via magic thus provoking iterative AoO and slappin foolz around in circles but sadly I'll only get 2 or 3 slams in before whaking folks out of my threatened area (in theory).

I think the really cool thing to do with Shield Slam is take Greater Bull Rush so you can give out Attacks of Opportunity to your buddies. Then take Paired Opportunist so you get the AoO, too.

But now, rather than move with your victim, you want to flank him or back him into a wall with your buddy. Your AoO can be a Shield Slam again, triggering more AoO's

Here's a build that can achieve multiple consecutive bull rushes simply by extending reach.

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