I'm looking to roll an Oread monk with the "Student of Stone" archetype. The Strength of Stone ability states, "So long as both he and his opponent are touching the ground, the student of stone gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, bull rush and trip combat maneuver rolls, and to his CMD when resisting a bull rush or trip attempt."
My question is thus: is a character "touching" the ground if they are wearing footwear and are thus not actually making skin contact? I would expect so, given that touch attacks don't require you to penetrate armour and make contact with actual flesh, but I'd like the clarification. I tried to find a precedent amongst other similar abilities(earth elementals' Earth Mastery, Earth Supremacy etc.) but none of them clarify this. Is there a clause anywhere in the rules that makes this explicit? Thanks.
Are you flying or swimming ? Riding a so-and-so's floating disk ? Hanging by your arms from a tree ? Swinging from vines ? Levitating ?
No ? Then I'm pretty sure you're touching the ground.
I don't believe there is any explicit text anywhere in the rules on this.
On the other hand, it would be perverse to rule otherwise.
Yes.
Yes, this is not Avatar so there is no need to touch the ground with your flesh. So long as you or any part of you or your possessions are touching the ground, then you are touching the ground.
Great, thanks so much everyone.
Note that the following does not pertain to Pathfinder Rules, but could be food for thought since it runs along the same lines.
I had a Champions character who was an earth-based titan. He gained great strength and abilities while "in contact with the ground." Wearing footwear was never an issue when it came to whether or not he was "in contact with the ground" (it was assumed he was). However, we had a discussion about whether he was in contact with the ground if he was in a building (substitute tower), on a bridge, etc.
We ultimately ruled that if the structure was itself in contact with the ground that the character was as well. So only if he was swimming or flying or picked up off the ground was he not in contact (and thus lost certain powers). Fun character, and I was excited to see from your post that there is something even remotely similar in Pathfinder. Thanks!
We ultimately ruled that if the structure was itself in contact with the ground that the character was as well. So only if he was swimming or flying or picked up off the ground was he not in contact (and thus lost certain powers).
What about boats?
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But that's not important right now.
I figure so long as touch attacks count your shield as a part of you, your boots should count as a part of you as well.
I know we would like 100% clear answers but this is the realm of ask your DM as it will be hard to get a consensus and, as far as I know, there is no game ruling as to what determines ground. We may just have to rely on common (or uncommon) sense on this one.
As for me I would rule as follows:
Foundation of a building? Yes
Paved road? Yes
Dirt? Yes
Bedrock? Yes
Blanket of leaves? Yes
Snow? Yes
Ice? Yes (if it is over earth, otherwise No if it is over water)
Mud? Yes
If I hold a clot of dirt and then start flying, am I still "touching the ground"? No
If I levitate a big chunk of "ground" and stand on it, does that still count? No
What if I'm climbing up a cliff? Yes
Standing on the ceiling of a natural cave? Yes
If it makes sense go with it. If it seems like an obvious aberration of the rule or intent, then do not allow it.
PS I realize that Kazaan may have been exaggerating some of these to prove a point but I thought I would answer with my thoughts on the subject.
Technically, you're never fully in contact with anything. Your molecules can come very close to the molecules of other people and objects, but ultimately the strength of the repulsion grows the closer you get. Its like pushing together the same pole of two magnets. It could very well be different in Golarion, though...
@Ciaran: Welcome to Golarion, where the physics are made up and your AC points don't matter.
That's right, just like being a mundane monster against a wizard casting miracle.
If you're wearing your boots, they are a "part of you" so "you" are touching the ground. Same goes for wearing fully covering clothing. Hypothetically speaking, if you were flying in the air, but your belt were long enough to reach the ground, you'd still be "touching the ground".
A more pertinent point is: what counts as "ground"? Foundation of a building? Paved road? Dirt? Bedrock? Blanket of leaves? Snow? Ice? Mud? If I hold a clot of dirt and then start flying, am I still "touching the ground"? If I levitate a big chunk of "ground" and stand on it, does that still count? What if I'm climbing up a cliff? Standing on the ceiling of a natural cave?
This seems to be a pretty in-depth assumption. Is there somewhere in the rules that says your clothing is considered a part of you? Your belt example is obviously not going to come up often but as a DM I'd certainly rule otherwise.
But regarding the OP, yeah, I would think it'd be hard to find anyone who says it requires skin to ground contact.
Are you touching your sword when you're wearing gloves? Yes, you are. Just like you're touching the ground when you're standing wearing boots.
You can still feel things through gloves and shoes, and you are still making contact with those things through those articles, despite not making flesh contact.
I don't see any reason to overthink or anguish so hard about this.