Mythic Mystic Theurge


Advice


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I am planning on building a Mystic Theurge in the Wrath of the Righteous campaign. I’ve read a lot of things that bash MT, but I think I may have found a decent build for one.

I am a Wizard/ Cleric. I am focusing on being a wizard. My DM has approved me joining a guild for the eventual +3/+1 caster levels it provides.

I am currently level 5: 4W/1C. I will get one more level in Cleric and use the guild for the first +1, giving me a Cleric level 3. Then I will take Mystic Theurge. I will eventually end up with 8W/2C/10MT; effective caster level 19W/15C (Wizard level 8 + MT level 10 + extra level from guild/ Cleric level 2 + MT level 10 + 3 levels from guild)

Alternatively, if I don’t want to go the guild route, I was thinking of using the Divine Source Universal Mythic Path Ability as my second level divine spell. Giving me W9/C1/MT10 effectively Wizard CL 19 Cleric CL 11. This is possible because of WotR.

Thoughts?

Sczarni

Divine source only works if your tier 2 and without giving too many spoilers, you won't get that in time...

Sczarni

What race are you? You would have been better served having a race that gave the SLA of a 2nd level spell and going early entry. I currently have one and I'll tell you not having full wizard levels really hurts...but also not having full cleric levels hurts...a lot...anything to mitigate that is needed.


I find it more effective to make a Wizard who focuses on getting Cleric spells on his list or a Cleric who focuses on getting Wizard spells on his list than a Mystic Theurge late entry. If you have ever played a Sorcerer in a campaign with a Wizard or an Oracle in a campaign with a Cleric you will know exactly what I am talking about. There are 8 levels where you feel like a chump just being 1 level behind, putting yourself 2 levels behind is gonna drive you crazy all campaign, as you will never again have the experience of your highest level spells being awe inspiring compared to what could have been.


You can still go early entry if you take the Fate Inquisition or the Trickery Domain on your cleric, allowing you to MT at 5 with 3 Wizard, 1 Cleric level. That will put your Wizard spell progression just one back, so you'll gain spell levels at the same rate as a Sorcerer. I agree with Gregory that you should focus on one of the classes, and just use the second class for filler spells, since you're not going to be as powerful as a dedicated caster for each. And since Clerics aren't generally the best as dedicated casters, I'd say focus on being a Wizard first. (My first MT was more Clericy and I regretted the decision.)

Once you go Mythic, take Dual Path as your first feat so you can take both Archmage (Wild Arcana is my preference, but there are good arguments for Arcane Surge) and Hierophant (definitely Inspired Spell). Those two Arcana allow you to cast just about every spell in the game, without preparation, making your character a true Schroedinger's Wizard.


Shfish wrote:
Divine source only works if your tier 2 and without giving too many spoilers, you won't get that in time...

First, you need to be tier 3 for divine source. Second, it is my understanding that you get mythic tier 10 by the end of the adventure. I don't know what you mean by I won't get it in time.

Dark Archive

thomas gock wrote:


I am a Wizard/ Cleric. I am focusing on being a wizard. My DM has approved me joining a guild for the eventual +3/+1 caster levels it provides.

I am currently level 5: 4W/1C. I will get one more level in Cleric and use the guild for the first +1, giving me a Cleric level 3. Then I will take Mystic Theurge. I will eventually end up with 8W/2C/10MT; effective caster level 19W/15C (Wizard level 8 + MT level 10 + extra level from guild/ Cleric level 2 + MT level 10 + 3 levels from guild)

Thoughts?

The Caster level usually does not add actual spell levels it just adds +1 CL to spells when cast. Meaning a 2nd Level Cleric that casts spells as a 3rd level cleric is still only able to cast 1st level spells. But if your GM is ok with it then you are cool. Also if you where planning on getting into mystic theurge at 6th level with divine source as your 2nd level spell you will not be able to get divine source until close to 9th level, so you can't get into mystic theurge until then.


A great deal depends on how quickly you can gain access to the guild from inner sea magic. Do so quickly enough and you'll feel almost no pain and will gain some cleric casting on top of what is effectively sorcerer casting (1 level behind). Do it slowly and you will suffer all the normal pitfalls (e.g. 2-3 levels behind on spell access, 1-2 spell levels behind ect).

I suspect that mythic will have little to do with how it plays out in that regard, and there is little advice that can be offered on the matter by outsiders.

I suggest focusing your mythic bonuses on your primary casting stat for one side while relying on the other side of casting mostly for utility stuff - but I suspect you already knew that.

Good luck, I suspect you'll need it. Mystic Theurge is unforgiving and often fickle for players.

Sczarni

thomas gock wrote:
Shfish wrote:
Divine source only works if your tier 2 and without giving too many spoilers, you won't get that in time...
First, you need to be tier 3 for divine source. Second, it is my understanding that you get mythic tier 10 by the end of the adventure. I don't know what you mean by I won't get it in time.

Well lets see here...my statement merely referred to the text of the ability that says you get a spell of a level equal to your tier..so tier 2...wasn't referring to minimum reqs of the ability.

Second...you are implying you are using divine source as your qualifications for the divine spell req of MT. YOU WILL NOT GET THAT IN TIME TO DO A DAMN THING. That was my point. With your current build you would be lucky to be level 7 (6 wiz, 1 clr) before you hit tier 2. And as you said you need tier 3 to qualify for the ability and I haven't gotten that far into the mod. Assume prob level 9. So no, you will not as you suggested want to try and do this...unless you really are wanting to take 9 levels of wizard, 1 level of cleric, and then all the rest (from 11+) take your mystic theurge.


brad2411 wrote:

The Caster level usually does not add actual spell levels it just adds +1 CL to spells when cast. Meaning a 2nd Level Cleric that casts spells as a 3rd level cleric is still only able to cast 1st level spells. But if your GM is ok with it then you are cool. Also if you where planning on getting into mystic theurge at 6th level with divine source as your 2nd level spell you will not be able to get divine source until close to 9th level, so you can't get into mystic theurge until then.

Guilds from Inner Sea Magic and their bonus to caster level(s) explicitly state that they increase not only caster level, but also spells per day, spells known, and so forth.

Dark Archive

Peter Stewart wrote:
brad2411 wrote:

The Caster level usually does not add actual spell levels it just adds +1 CL to spells when cast. Meaning a 2nd Level Cleric that casts spells as a 3rd level cleric is still only able to cast 1st level spells. But if your GM is ok with it then you are cool. Also if you where planning on getting into mystic theurge at 6th level with divine source as your 2nd level spell you will not be able to get divine source until close to 9th level, so you can't get into mystic theurge until then.

Guilds from Inner Sea Magic and their bonus to caster level(s) explicitly state that they increase not only caster level, but also spells per day, spells known, and so forth.

Interesting, thanks for setting me straight I did not know that. That really does help with Mystic Theurges.


Shfish wrote:
thomas gock wrote:
Shfish wrote:
Divine source only works if your tier 2 and without giving too many spoilers, you won't get that in time...
First, you need to be tier 3 for divine source. Second, it is my understanding that you get mythic tier 10 by the end of the adventure. I don't know what you mean by I won't get it in time.

Well lets see here...my statement merely referred to the text of the ability that says you get a spell of a level equal to your tier..so tier 2...wasn't referring to minimum reqs of the ability.

Second...you are implying you are using divine source as your qualifications for the divine spell req of MT. YOU WILL NOT GET THAT IN TIME TO DO A DAMN THING. That was my point. With your current build you would be lucky to be level 7 (6 wiz, 1 clr) before you hit tier 2. And as you said you need tier 3 to qualify for the ability and I haven't gotten that far into the mod. Assume prob level 9. So no, you will not as you suggested want to try and do this...unless you really are wanting to take 9 levels of wizard, 1 level of cleric, and then all the rest (from 11+) take your mystic theurge.

I'm sorry. I should have also been clear. I intended on waiting until level 9 to start mystic theurge.

Sczarni

Oh, well, that's not very useful. Is there a true healer in the group? I am playing a MT in Wrath right now and being anything other than a pure wizard is rough, and being a non blaster is expecially rough. I have found that many of the encounters when your level 5+ assume AoEs are available to the party and without them you will suffer. If you are the only arcane like I am, it does start to wane significantly in power when you take those multiclass levels. Also I had to invite my wife in and she brought a full cleric in because my healing as a MT was not going to keep up.

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