Purple Dragon Knight |
I just add an idea. I could be an extremely bad idea or something genius like my pickleshot idea for the gunslinger.
How about this new Advanced Rogue Talent:
Selective Proprioception (Ex): By tricking her own sense of hand-eye coordination, a rogue with this ability can attack directly while invisible and not become visible.
I'm on a roll... maybe due to the awesomeness of the latest "Marvel: Agents of Shield"... so here's another one:
Rogue Talent:
Enforcer (Ex): Drawing on her past experience with pressure points, pain receptors and dark alleys, a rogue with this ability can inflict a nonlethal damage sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or total concealment. If the rogue misses because of concealment or total concealment, she can reroll her miss chance percentile roll one time to see if she actually hits. This nonlethal damage can be inflicted as usual with a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), or she can also use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal this nonlethal damage with the usual –4 penalty.
Lemmy |
I was talking more "make it an inherent class feature" rather than a talent you pick.
You don't have to give up something to get it.
Or an ability you can buy or otherwise pick that all you to, once a day, essentially "take twenty" on an initiative roll.
There are a few talents that could be turned into inherent class features, actually. I was trying to stay close to the vanilla class, so that it can be more easily implemented into real games.
Now, while increasing Initiative is nice, IMO, it doesn't feel like something Rogues should be automatically better at than most other classes (Rangers, Fighters, Barbarians and even Wizards have pretty damn good reasons, both in terms of mechanics and flavor to have good Initiative checks as well).
Rogues tend to have good Initiative score anyway, thanks to the usual focus on Dex (which is easier and more effective to do with this homebrew), and re-rolling Initiative is useful enough that it's worth spending a Talent on it.
Besides, I don't like having mundane abilities be limited to X times per day. That never made much sense for me.
Purple Dragon Knight |
Rogue talent:
Luck Pool (Ex): A rogue gains a pool of luck points she can use to accomplish seemingly incredible feats. The number of points in the rogue's luck pool is equal to 1/2 her rogue level + her Intelligence modifier. As long as she has at least 1 point in her luck pool, she treats any stealth skill check as if she was one size smaller. At 10th level, she treats any stealth skill check as if she was two sizes smaller.
By spending 1 point from her luck pool, a rogue can make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus, but she can do so only when making a full attack. In addition, she can spend 1 point to increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a rogue can spend 1 point from her luck pool to give herself a +4 insight bonus on Disable Device and Perception checks for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A rogue can also use a luck point to add a 1d6 bonus to any die or dice roll, and this choice can be made after the result of the roll is known, including the decision on how many luck points should be used. If the luck point is used to add 1d6 point to a damage roll, this damage is multiplied on a critical hit.
The luck pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or revelry, as determined by the rogue on the night before; these hours do not need to be consecutive. If the rogue possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, rogue levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of luck points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The rogue can now use luck points from this pool to power the abilities of every class she possesses that grants a ki pool or luck pool.
Silent Saturn |
I had one a while back:
Attacks of opportunity treat their target as flat-footed.
This applies to any creature who is provoking or making an attack of opportunity. Suddenly, rogues are solid anti-casters and anti-archers. They also want Combat Reflexes, Step Up, and a longspear.
Actually, I'd also give them whip proficiency. A well-built AoO rogue could be a fearsome thing indeed.
Atarlost |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Facing rules.
With facing rules a rogue can sneak up on inattentive guards without cover.
With facing rules a rogue can shoot people in the back without needing to worry about not being able to flank with ranged weapons.
With facing rules a lone rogue that can get free movement (off hand I know kirin path, the accelerate wordspell, or a quick runner's shirt can work) can slip behind an enemy and stab them in the back.
Purple Dragon Knight |
Apparently the upcoming Advanced Class Guide obsoletes the Rogue for good with three new classes:
If you want to play a sneaky skill rogue, roll an Investigator
If you want to play a fighty rogue, roll a Slayer
If you want to play a dashing rogue, roll a Swashbuckler
I will review the playtest and add more information later...
Purple Dragon Knight |
Here's a slayer talent I found in the playtest document:
Trapfinding: The hunter gains Disable Device as a class
skill, and adds half his level to Perception skill checks
made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks
(minimum 1). Just like a rogue, the hunter can use Disable
Device to disarm magic traps. The slayer gains trap sense
as a rogue of the same level.
So slayer take a talent and gets both trapfinding AND trap sense? I think I must TRULY start to up the ante with my shameless boosts here...
Silent Saturn |
Rogue talent:
Practice Makes Perfect: A rogue that selects this talent gains nothing immediately. The next time he gains a rogue talent, he gains three rogue talents instead. If taken before 10th level, this cannot yield future advanced rogue talents.
Can it be taken multiple times?
Level 2: PMP
Level 4: PMPx3
Level 6: Nine rogue talents?
Is this even good?
Purple Dragon Knight |
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:Rogue talent:
Practice Makes Perfect: A rogue that selects this talent gains nothing immediately. The next time he gains a rogue talent, he gains three rogue talents instead. If taken before 10th level, this cannot yield future advanced rogue talents.
Can it be taken multiple times?
Level 2: PMP
Level 4: PMPx3
Level 6: Nine rogue talents?Is this even good?
Yes, multiple times is ok, but it can only be taken on its own (so if at level 2 you take it, you can't take anything else) I should have written it better... see next post for my next crack at it.
Also I wrote "The next time he gains" not "every time he gains", so in effect:
Level 2: PMP
Level 4: select 3 rogue talents
Level 6: PMP
Level 8: select 3 rogue talents
total at level 8: 6 rogue talents; normally a rogue would only have 4
Purple Dragon Knight |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
PMP v2.0
Practice Makes Perfect: A rogue that selects this talent gains no rogue talent at this level. The next time he gains a rogue talent, he gains three rogue talents instead, effectively gaining 3 rogue talents over the course of 4 levels instead of the usual 2 rogue talents. If taken before 10th level, this cannot yield future advanced rogue talents.
Silent Saturn |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here's another I had come up with a while ago:
Familar: The rogue gains a familiar, using her rogue level as her effective wizard level, with the following modifications. The rogue gets a +4 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks to conceal her familiar on her person. In place of the share spells ability, the familiar can instead make Sleight of Hand, Disable Device, and Escape Artist checks on behalf of the rogue, using the rogue's Handle Animal check in place of the relevant check. The rogue must have line of sight to the familiar in order to use this ability. In place of the deliver touch spells ability, the familiar gains 1d6 of sneak attack damage. (A Tiny creature does not have sufficient reach to count towards flanking an enemy, but a familiar concealed on the rogue's person can attack any creature the rogue threatens, and has concealment from all creatures expect the rogue.)
If the rogue has class levels in another class that grant a familiar, her rogue levels now stack with levels in that class, and the familiar gains the share spells and deliver touch spells abilities in addition to those listed here.
Kaisoku |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hoooboy. I've been rewriting the rogue for a bit now, with the idea of "over the top" design. Basically, the only limits I consider are what magic can do at the same level.
Here's a rundown of what I've got so far:
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills
The rogue's skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 8 + Int modifier
Base Attack Bonus: Medium
Fortitude: Low
Reflex: High
Will: High
Table: Special
Level .. Special
.1 ..... Cunning craft, guile +1, rogue talent
.2 ..... Skill discipline
.3 ..... Rogue talent
.4 ..... Cunning craft ability
.5 ..... Guile +2, rogue talent
.6 ..... Advanced talents, skill discipline
.7 ..... Rogue talent
.8 ..... Cunning craft ability
.9 ..... Guile +3, rogue talent
10 ..... Skill discipline
11 ..... Master talents, rogue talent, skill mastery
12 ..... Cunning craft ability
13 ..... Guile +4, rogue talent
14 ..... Skill discipline
15 ..... Rogue talent
16 ..... Cunning craft ability
17 ..... Guile +5, rogue talent
18 ..... Skill discipline
19 ..... Rogue talent
20 ..... Cunning craft mastery
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, light melee martial weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, shortbow, and whip. They are proficient with light armor and bucklers.
Cunning Craft: Each rogue chooses a particular field of cunning to specialize in, where she will focus her roguish talents. At first level, the cunning craft grants a set of skills as master skills, as well as gaining a free rank in each of these skills per level of rogue. The craft also grants a special ability, as well as an additional ability at 4th level and every four additional levels, until attaining mastery at 20th level. A rogue must choose her cunning craft upon taking her first level. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed.
Master skills gain a number of benefits. A master skill gains a bonus equal to the rogue's guile bonus (see Guile below). Also, a master skill can be used for a skill pool to use with cunning craft abilities.
The cunning craft's skill pool is equal to 3 + the rogue's ranks in the master skill + the appropriate ability score modifier, no other bonuses apply. A rogue only has a single pool; the highest master skill is used. This skill pool is used to boost her cunning craft abilities; it represents the rogue's efficiency in this particular field as well as a little bit of luck. Regardless of the cunning craft selected, the rogue may use a skill pool point prior to rolling a master skill check to roll twice and use the higher result. The skill pool replenishes once per day, after 8 hours of rest.
Cunning Craft Ideas
Artisan (mundane and magical item crafting)
Assassin (gain death attack abilities, similar to prestige class)
Bounty Hunter (single target skill/combat bonuses)
Confidence Artist (bluff, confuse, suggestion, fascinate, in and out of combat)
Investigator (profiling, "post-cognition" level of information gathering)
Knife Fighter (combat-focused: light blades)
Ninja (ki-based abilities)
Scoundrel (combat-focused: thug, medium armor/martial weapons)
Scout (stealth and perception focused)
Spy (infiltration abilities, similar to prestige class)
Swashbuckler (gains grit-like abilities)
Tinker (bombs/guns, traps, engineering, craft)
Troubleshooter (find what is hidden, disable traps, including spells)
Knife Fighter
Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Sleight of Hand
A knife fighter is a rogue who specializes in blade combat, turning a modest knife or dagger into a formidable weapon. The knife fighter is proficient with the light blades weapon group (see the fighter class); she can select it as part of any feat or ability that normally grants a bonus to a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus or the weapon training rogue talent). The knife fighter gains the Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot feats when using weapons from the light blades weapon group.
Impale: At 4th level, when the knife fighter makes a successful guile attack with a light piercing weapon, she can leave the blade in the victim and cause ongoing pain. This causes the sickened condition and forces concentration checks as long as the blade is still impaled. This also extends the duration of any additional effects from the following rogue talents: befuddling strike, confounding blades, distracting attack, entanglement of blades, and slow reactions. Bleed damage from the bleeding attack rogue talent cannot be healed until the weapon is removed (as the blade continues to inflict the condition until removed).
Proper removal of the blade requires a standard action and DC 15 Heal check. Failure causes additional damage equal to the weapon's damage. This is a separate check than the one to stop bleed damage from the bleeding attack rogue talent.
If the knife fighter uses a cunning craft point, she can impale with any form of attack.
Rapid Strikes: At 8th level, the knife fighter reduces the penalty from fighting with two weapons to -1 if using light weapons, and gains the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Double Slice feats when using weapons from the light blades weapon group. Additionally, the knife fighter does not need to use two weapons to benefit from the extra attacks gained normally from two-weapon fighting, and instead may use a single light blade weapon for all attacks made.
Fan of Blades: At 12th level, the knife fighter may draw and throw a handful of daggers or shuriken in a wide arc. This creates an area effect of a 30' cone, dealing weapon damage to all enemies in the area. Damage does not include precision damage, however it does include regular guile damage. Victims may make a Reflex save for half damage (DC equal to half the knife fighter's level + Dexterity modifier).
If the knife fighter uses a cunning craft point, the area is increased to 60' and the DC is increased to her base attack bonus + Dexterity modifier.
Bladed Assault: At 16th level, the knife fighter has no penalty for using light weapons with two weapon fighting, and gains the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Rend feats when using weapons from the light blades weapon group. Also, the knife fighter may make attacks while on the move, allowing an attack each time she leaves a square while moving her speed, up to the normal number of attacks she can make in a full attack action. She does not provoke an attack of opportunity from those she's attacked in this manner.
Knife Master: At 20th level, the knife fighter has deadly precision with her blades. When using the impale abilty, she may spend 2 cunning craft points to kill or paralyze her victim (decided on making the attack). The victim must make a Fortitude save (DC equal to the knife fighter's base attack bonus + Dexterity modifier), or be reduced to -1 hitpoints and dying. Alternatively, the knife fighter can decide to leave the victim paralyzed until the blade is removed (this prevents magical healing, as the blade will continue to inflict the condition until removed).
Guile: While a rogue typically doesn't focus on toe-to-toe combat, she can be quite wily and resourceful, and can recognize and exploit weaknesses to gain advantage in combat. The rogue gains a +1 bonus to attack and damage on attacks made against targets that would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when flanking a target. She also gains a +1 bonus on the following combat maneuvers at all times: dirty trick, disarm, steal, and trip. Both bonuses stack if she uses a combat maneuver in the listed conditions. The guile bonus increases to +2 at 5th level, and every 4 levels (up to +5 at 17th level).
Rogue Talents: As a rogue gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. At 1st level, and at every uneven level thereafter, a rogue gains one rogue talent. A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once. Most talents gain additional improvements at later levels, or when other talents are selected.
See the next post for the list of rogue talents. They were designed with two ideas in mind: useful and self-improving. The point is that when the rogue selects a rogue talent, he gains all the benefits of that chosen "thing". Basically, you gain more talents as you level *and* they all improve with level (mimicking the way spells increase in power).
Rogue Talents were reserved for mostly "non-skill boosting" talents, since I have a new thing for those (see skill disciplines below). Also note, whenever possible I didn't limit uses per day, unless it made thematic sense (such as luck or spell/supernatural ability).
Skill Disciplines: Rogues can master the use of skills, far exceeding the typical applications. Starting at 2nd level, a rogue can choose one skill discipline. She gains an additional skill discipline for every 4 levels of rogue attained after 2nd level. Skill disciplines grant a number of skills as master skills, and grant automatic benefits and selectable abilities for having high ranks in those skills. The rogue may only benefit from two abilities at a time when she gains her first discipline, and an additional ability each time she selects another skill discipline. She may swap out the abilities with 1 hour of preparation.
Clandestine
Master Skills: Bluff, Stealth
The rogue ignores penalties for moving full speed while hiding and from moving between cover, and may make a double move after using bluff to create a distraction.
Abilities
Sniper (Ex) (2 ranks in Stealth): The rogue is highly skilled at hiding after taking a shot, and no longer has a penalty to stealth rolls when sniping.
Hide Scent (Ex) (2 ranks in Stealth): The rogue can prepare their person to prevent scents, allowing stealth checks even against creatures with the scent ability.
Soft Step (Ex) (5 ranks in Stealth and Bluff): The rogue times and changes their movements to match the natural activity in the environment, allowing stealth checks even against creatures with tremorsense.
Trackless (Ex) (5 ranks in Stealth): The rogue alters their pattern of movement and stepping and takes care with their environment, such as to no longer leave a visible trail.
Anonymous (Su) (8 ranks in Bluff): The rogue can shift her personal aura, allowing her to be treated as neutral for purposes of alignment detection spells.
Camouflage (Ex) (8 ranks in Stealth and Knowledge nature): The rogue prepares loose clothing to match their environment, allowing them to make stealth checks without needing cover or concealment while in a particular terrain. When this ability is selected, choose a specific terrain (as the Ranger's favored terrain list).
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex or Su) (8 ranks in Stealth and Bluff): The rogue's movements are designed to draw the eye away from their intended destination, allowing her to make stealth checks even while observed. This requires being in some form of cover or concealment, unless the rogue is using the Camouflage ability. If the rogue has the Arcane Dabbler rogue talent, she may instead take on a shadowy aspect, allowing her to hide as long as there is shadows within 10 feet.
Blind Spot Vanish (Ex) (11 ranks in Bluff): The rogue may use a moment of blind spot during combat to escape an attacker. When fighting defensively, if a rogue is attacked and the attack is a miss, the rogue may make a bluff check to create a distraction as an immediate action, and move into an adjacent square. If the attacker fails his sense motive check, he must spend time relocating the rogue and effectively treats the rogue as invisible until the end of his turn.
Fool Senses (Su) (11 ranks in Stealth): The rogue is able to alter how her presence is sensed by blindsense and blindsight abilities, fooling them into believing she is not there, or simply part of the environment around her. This allows her to make stealth checks against creatures with these senses.
Undetectable (Sp) (14 ranks in Bluff): The rogue is able to alter her aura, dimming it such that she is no longer discoverable by magical means. The rogue is treated as being under the effects of a constant non-detection spell as if cast by herself (DC 15 + caster level), with a caster level equal to her rogue level. If this effect is dispelled, it can be resumed after 1d4 rounds.
Disappear (Sp) (17 ranks in Stealth, Arcane Dabbler rogue talent): The rogue can maintain magical invisibility, as the greater invisibility spell. She must spend a swift action per round that she wishes to stay invisible, and may only move at half speed. This effect can be dispelled, however the rogue can simply resume using it again on their turn.
Gray Man (Su) (20 ranks in Stealth): The rogue has deadened all magical auras about their person. All methods of magically locating or gathering information about the rogue are foiled, as the spell mind blank. The rogue may lower or raise this effect as she wishes as a free action.
Once again, the point of these abilities is to give a mechanic that is similar in "growth" to spells (as you level, you gain more/stronger abilities, but are limited in what you can use at once). It keeps things mechanically different (and non-caster) by giving these abilities in "unlimited" fashion, but with a long preparation time.
Advanced Talents: At 6th level, rogue talents gain advanced improvements and the rogue may select from the following talents in place of their rogue talents. Talents that have improvements are gained automatically, and do not need to be selected again.
Master Talents: At 11th level, rogue talents gain master improvements, and the rogue may select from the following talent in place of their rogue talents.
See the next post for the list of Advanced and Master Talents.
Skill Mastery: At 11th level, the rogue has become so confident in the use of her master skills, that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. She may also use a skill pool point to swap out a single active ability for another as a free action at any time.
Kaisoku |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here's the rogue talents for my class write-up above.
ROGUE TALENTS
Arcane Dabbler: A rogue with this talent has dabbled in the arcane arts, gaining some minor magical talent. The rogue gains detect magic, mage hand, and read magic, and may choose three more cantrips from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. The rogue memorizes and casts spells as a wizard (such as needing 1 hour to prepare spells from a spellbook), and can memorize two cantrips at a time, casting them an unlimited number of times per day. The rogue has a caster level equal to her rogue level, however her spell list only includes these spells, not the full sorcerer/wizard spell list. A rogue's spell DC is 10 + the spell level + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. The rogue must have a high enough Intelligence score to cast the spell, equal to 10 + the spell level.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue gains 3 more cantrips of her choice and adds them to her spell list and spells known. She may also memorize two additional cantrips at a time, for a total of four.
Note: The Arcane Dabbler talent can alter many other rogue talents and grant access to additional benefits for skill disciplines.
Arcane Dilettante: A rogue with this talent develops their ability with the arcane. The rogue gains two 1st level spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, adding them to her spell list and spells known. She also gains one 1st level spell slot. The rogue prepares and casts spells and recovers spell slots as a wizard would, and receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
The rogue must have the Arcane Dabbler rogue talent to select this talent.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue gains two 2nd level spells, as well as an additional two 1st level spells, adding them to her spell list and spells known. She gains one 2nd level spell slot, and increases her 1st level spell slots to two.
Master Talents: The rogue gains two 3rd level spells, as well as an additional two 2nd level and two 1st level spells, adding them to her spell list and spells known. She also now has three 1st level spell slots, two 2nd level spell slots, and one 3rd level spell slot.
Assault Leader (Ex): Once per round, if a rogue with this talent misses a target that she is flanking, she can grant a single ally who is flanking the same target an attack as an immediate action.
Bleeding Attack (Ex): Whenever a rogue makes an attack against a living target that would cause bonus damage from guile, the creature gains bleeding equal to twice the guile bonus. Bleeding creatures take that amount of damage every round at the start of each of their turns. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage. Bleeding damage from this ability does not stack with itself. Bleeding damage bypasses any damage reduction the creature might possess.
Child of Fate (Su): A rogue with this talent seems to have chance land in their favor. After a roll has been made, but before the result of the roll is determined, the rogue can force a second roll and pick the best one. The roll affected does not need to be one made by the rogue, however the impact of the result must affect her directly in some way. The rogue can bend fate in this manner once per day per guile bonus.
Note: The Child of Fate talent can alter many other rogue talents and grant access to additional benefits for skill discplines.
Combat Tactics (Ex): The rogue no longer provokes an attack of opportunity when making a dirty trick, disarm, steal or trip combat maneuver.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue gains an additional +2 bonus to combat maneuver checks and CMD for these maneuvers. This bonus does not stack with the Improved feats for these combat maneuvers, and the rogue is treated has having those feats for purposes of qualifying for feats and abilities. If the rogue already has one of the Improved feats, they may immediately retrain that feat.
Child of Fate: The rogue may roll twice and choose the higher roll when making a combat maneuver check for these maneuvers. She may perform a reroll once per day per guile bonus (over and above the rerolls granted by Child of Fate).
Daring (Ex): The rogue can perform acts of great derring-do. She gains a daring pool, choosing either grit or panache. If choosing grit, the rogue uses her Wisdom bonus for her daring pool and may select a deed from the scoundrel cunning craft. If choosing panache, the rogue uses her Charisma bonus for her daring pool and may select a deed from the swashbuckler cunning craft. She may choose from these deeds in place of rogue talents.
Note: A rogue can select this talent a second time, gaining the other style of daring pool and adding both ability scores to their daring pool and may select from both cunning craft deeds. The rogue shares this pool for all deeds gained.
Distracting Attack (Ex): The rogue can forgo dealing guile damage on an attack, and instead cause a target to be flatfooted for 1 round. Creatures who cannot be flatfooted (such as with uncanny dodge), are immune to distracting attack.
Evasion (Ex): The rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Improvements
Master Talents: The rogue gains Improved Evasion, taking only half damage on a failed save.
Familiar (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains a familiar as the familiar option of the wizard's arcane bond class feature, using her rogue level as her effective wizard level.
The rogue must have the Arcane Dabbler rogue talent to select this talent.
Finesse Training: A rogue that selects this talent gains Agile Maneuvers and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue may apply their Dexterity bonus to damage with weapons that use Dexterity bonus to attack (such as weapon finesse weapons, and ranged attacks). This is precision damage, and as such it is not multiplied on a critical hit.
Iron Guts (Ex): A rogue with this talent has a cast-iron stomach and has trained to withstand poisons, especially ingested ones. She gains a +1 bonus on all saves against ingested poisons, and is immune to the sickened condition.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: Through a strict regimen of self-poisoning, the rogue is able to build up an immunity to specific poisons. When poisoned, if they make their first save against a specific poison, they gain temporary immunity to that poison for 24 hours. In addition, when the rogue becomes nauseated, they are instead treated as sickened.
Master Talents: The rogue is now immune to all poisons and the nauseated condition.
Keen Eye (Ex): The rogue can deal sneak attack damage when making ranged attacks up to her second range increment or 50 feet, whichever is higher. The rogue also ignores 1 point of AC granted by cover per guile bonus.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue improves her sneak attack range to 5 range increments, and reduces miss chance from concealment by 5% per guile bonus.
Child of Fate: If the rogue misses because of concealment, she may reroll her miss chance percentile roll one time to see if she actually hit.
Ki (Su): The rogue gains access to a supernatural energy she can use to perform mystical abilities. The rogue gains a number of ki points equal to half her rogue level + her Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). These ki points replenish once per day, after 8 hours of rest. If she already has a ki pool, or gains a ki pool later, she adds half her rogue levels + half her Intelligence bonus (minimum 1) as bonus ki points to her ki pool.
The rogue selects a single ki ability from the ninja cunning craft, and may choose ki abilities in place of rogue talents.
Poisoner (Ex): The rogue cannot accidentally poison herself when applying a poison to a weapon. If a rogue is aware of a poison, she may identify what kind of poison it is as a standard action by making the slightest smell or taste (that does not risk poisoning herself).
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue can apply poisons to a weapon as a swift action. Additionally, the rogue can apply a poison in such a way as to allow two uses of the poison. This reduces the effects of the poison slightly, reducing the DC to resist by 2. Applying the poison in this way requires a standard action.
Master Talents: The rogue can apply two doses of poison to a weapon at once. These can be separate poisons, in which case they both affect the target individually, or two doses of the same toxin, in which case the poisons' frequency is extended by 50% and the save DC increases by +2. This is an exception to the rule that injury poisons can only be delivered one dose at a time.
Resiliency (Ex): The rogue gains the ability to recover a number of hitpoints per day equal to 4 + her rogue level per day. These hitpoints can be applied as a swift action, or as an immediate action in response to an attack that caused damage. Hitpoints can be applied in any amount per use. As with other healing, this also heals an equal amount of non-lethal damage.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue may now recover a number of hitpoints equal to four times her rogue level per day. She may only recover half the total hitpoints per day in a single swift action.
Master Talents: The rogue gains damage reduction 1/- per guile bonus.
Slow Reactions (Ex): Opponents who've taken guile damage cannot make attacks of opportunity, and have a penalty to their CMD equal to the rogue's guile bonus. This effect lasts for 1 round.
Sneak Attack (Ex): The rogue deals an additional +1d6 damage per bonus in guile. This damage applies whenever she would apply bonus damage from guile. This is precision damage, and as such it is not multiplied on a critical hit. A rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue does not apply sneak attack damage while striking a creature with concealment greater than 20%, or when making ranged attacks further than thier first range increment or 30 feet, whichever is higher. Certain creatures have no discernable anatomy, and are immune to sneak attack (such as creatures with the Elemental or Ooze creature types).
Improvements
Surprise Attack: During a surprise round, if a target was unaware of the weapon used to make the attack, the sneak attack damage is treated as maximum damage.
Surprise Attack (Ex): The rogue gains a +2 bonus to Initiative checks. Also, during a surprise round, opponents are always considered flat-footed to a rogue with this ability, even if they have already acted.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue is treated as having an initiative roll of 20 for purposes of the surprise round, but may only make an attack with whatever weapon she has on hand, or that can be drawn as a free action. The rogue uses her regular initiative roll if she wishes to perform an alternative action, and after the surprise round ends.
Fate's Smile: The rogue adds her Charisma bonus on initiative checks, in addition to her Dexterity modifier. Also, she rolls twice when making an initiative check and selecting the roll she wants.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): The rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue can no longer be flanked. This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.
Weapon Training: A rogue that selects this talent gains improved training with a specific type of weapon. They may select Weapon Focus for a single weapon. The rogue also gains proficiency with that weapon if they do not already have it. If it is a firearm, they gain the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat. If it is unarmed strikes, they gain the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The rogue gains Weapon Specialization with their chosen weapon.
Fate's Smile: The rogue gains the Perfect Strike feat even if she does not qualify for it. She may only use the feat with the weapon selected for weapon training. If she gains the Perfect Strike feat from another source, she may use any listed weapons in the feat as well and gains a use per day equal to her rogue levels (instead of one use every four levels of rogue).
ADVANCED TALENTS
Befuddling Strike (Ex): When a rogue deals guile damage to a target, they also take a penalty to attack rolls and concentration checks equal to the guile bonus for 1 round.
Deadly Maneuvers (Ex): The rogue can apply guile bonus damage whenever she makes a successful guile combat maneuver check. This includes any increases to damage from other rogue talents, such as sneak attack.
Improvements
Master Talents: If a weapon was used as part of the combat maneuver check, she may add a full damage roll with that weapon along with the guile damage.
Defensive Roll (Ex): The rogue can quickly recognize a devastating blow, and give up favorable positioning to avoid it. If the rogue is successfully hit, after damage is rolled the rogue may decide to make a defensive roll. The rogue must make a Reflex save (DC is the attack roll that hit). If successful the rogue takes no damage, diving out of the way. She must choose a square 5' away from the enemy and lands prone. This ability cannot be used if the rogue cannot move to a different square, or if she is already prone.
The rogue must have the Uncanny Dodge rogue talent to choose this talent.
Improvements
Fate's Smile: Once per day, instead of diving out of the way the rogue may redirect the attack towards a different creature. The creature targeted must be within melee reach of the attacker, and the creature that made the attack against the rogue must make a new attack roll against the new target.
Entanglement of Blades (Ex): Opponents who've taken guile damage cannot make a 5 foot step. This effect lasts for 1 round.
Knock-Out Blow (Ex): A rogue with this talent is able to make a single, well placed blow that instantly incapacitates her victim. The victim must not engaged in combat such that they are flatfooted, and completely unaware of the rogue (because she is hidden, or simply not treated as a threat). The rogue must observe their victim's movement for 3 rounds and then make a non-lethal attack as a standard action. If this attack hits, instead rolling damage the target must make a Fortitude save or take non-lethal damage equal to their current hitpoints, causing them to fall unconscious. The DC for this save is 10 + 1/2 rogue's level + the rogue's Dexterity modifier.
This attack follows the same requirements as Sneak Attack damage.
Improvements
Hunter's Prey: The rogue may make a knock-out blow on a designated target in combat, as long as she meets the normal requirements of Sneak Attack.
Slippery Mind (Ex): A rogue with this talent is hard to fool with mind-affecting effects. If a rogue with slippery mind is affected by a mind-affecting spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw.
Improvements
Master Talents: At the start of her turn, if the rogue is still subject to any mind-affecting spells or effects, she can make a Will saving throw with a standard DC for the effect's level, and if she succeeds at the check, she is no longer subject to the mind-affecting effect. She can make this saving throw even against mind-affecting effects that normally don't allow a saving throw. In those cases, generate the saving throw as if the spell or effect did allow a saving throw (DC 10 + spell level or half HD + appropriate stat modifier).
Arcane Dilettante: If the rogue succeeds at a saving throw against a magical effect that provides ongoing control (such as charm person, dominate person, or a vampire's dominate ability), she can allow the spell to take partial effect. To the caster, it appears that the rogue failed her saving throw, but the rogue is not under the caster's control. If the spell provides a telepathic link, it functions normally, but the rogue is under no obligation to follow the caster's commands. The rogue can dismiss a fooled spell as a standard action. The rogue can fool a spell in this manner the first time she saves against the spell, regardless if it was immediately upon being affected, or on a subsequent saving throw for an ongoing effect.
Unwitting Ally (Ex): A rogue with this talent can spend a swift action to attempt to make an opponent act like an ally for purposes of providing a flank until the beginning of the rogue's next turn. The opponent must be able to hear and see the rogue, and the rogue must succeed at a Bluff check opposed by the opponent's Sense Motive. If the check succeeds, the opponent acts as an ally for the purpose of providing a flank. Whether or not the check succeeds, the rogue cannot use this trick again on the same opponent for the next 24 hours. If the rogue fails the check by 5 or more, she cannot use the unwitting ally ability on any opponent within line of sight of the failed attempt for 24 hours.
MASTER TALENTS
Confounding Blades (Ex): Opponents who've taken guile damage cannot make swift actions (actions that normally only require a swift action can still be performed, but must use the remaining move or standard action). This effect lasts for 1 round.
Crippling Strike (Ex): When a rogue deals guile damage to a target, they also take 2 Strength damage.
Improvements
Arcane Dabbler: The rogue can choose to deal Strength drain instead of damage.
Dispelling Attack (Su): When the rogue deals guile damage to a target, they are treated as if affected by a targeted dispel magic effect, targeting the lowest level active spell on the target. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level.
The rogue must have the Arcane Dilettante rogue talent to select this talent.
Fate's Smile (Su): Whenever a rogue uses their child of fate talent, they can apply their Charisma bonus as a bonus or a penalty to the second roll.
Note: The Fate's Smile talent can alter many other rogue talents and grant access to additional benefits for skill discplines.
Hunter's Prey (Ex): A rogue with this talent is able to study a target in combat to find a weakness in their defenses. A rogue can designate a single target who she observes in combat as her prey. She must study the target for two rounds, spending a swift action each round doing so. On the third round and onward, she can apply the damage bonus from guile on all attacks, regardless if she meets the normal requirements. The rogue must be able to see the target either attacking or being attacked for two rounds to be able to designate them, though these rounds do not need to be consecutive. She may only observe and designate a single target at a time; observing a new target loses the current prey.
Opportunist (Ex): Once per round, the rogue can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as an attack of opportunity for that round. Even a rogue with the Combat Reflexes feat can't use the opportunist ability more than once per round.
Kaisoku |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In order to do what I did there with Cunning Craft, Rogue Talents and Skill Disciplines, I basically plumbed ideas from the archetypes.
Actual Rogue archetypes will be more focused on changing the dynamic of the class. Basically, you'd have a specific cunning craft for the archetype, but it changed things in some manner (method of Guile, etc).
Archetype Ideas
Archivist (dark lore, scroll use, magic item use)
Harbinger (divine-focused assassin, gains benefits based on divine instruction, ie a "god given hit-list")
Luminary (boosts others primarily, a spell-less bard, geisha, etc)
I've written up one so far, the Archivist, as an example.
Archivist
To discover and preserve lost, secret or forbidden knowledge; that is the driving force of the archivist. Less dedicated to direct combat, an archivist will seek the weakness of her enemies, or unlock hidden power in ancient languages or artifacts to achieve her goals.
Archivist Craft The archivist automatically selects the archivist cunning craft as detailed below.
At first level, the archivist adds all Knowledge (Int) and Spellcraft (Int) to her list of class skills, and treats them all as Master skills. The archivist gains an additional 3 skill points per level that can be placed as desired in those skills. In addition, she may cast from scrolls as if she were a wizard with a caster level equal to her archivist level.
Conservation of Magic: At 4th level, the archivist can conserve the magic in scrolls when used. When using a scroll, the archivist may make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + twice spell level) to preserve the magic; the scroll's writing does not vanish, and is usable again in 24 hours. The archivist may preserve magic in this manner a number of times per day equal to her Intelligence bonus (minimum 1).
Dark Lore (Su): At 8th level, the archivist can use strange and secret words of power to lower a target creature's defenses for a moment. As a swift action, the archivist can reduce the saves of a target creature by the occult lore amount. In addition, the archivist can cause one of the creature's special defenses to stop functioning (such as damage reduction or regeneration). The archivist must be aware of the special defense in order to make it stop functioning. These effects only last one round. Certain creatures may not be able to be disrupted in this manner (such as a Tarrasque's regeneration).
Preservation (Sp): At 12th level, the archivist can preserve a creature's likeness and abilities in a special scroll. As a full round action, the archivist can use her knowledge gained from identifying the creature to capture a copy of the creature on the scroll. This scroll can then be used later to create a temporary copy of the creature, similar to a summon monster spell. It requires a full round to release the creature, and it lasts 1 round per archivist level.
This scroll must be prepared ahead of time to receive the magical imprint, and costs 100gp per HD of a prospective target creature. If the scroll does not have sufficient magic to capture the creature, the ability fails, however the scroll can be reused.
Dark Curse (Sp): At 16th level, the archivist can utter a dark curse tailored to a specific target creature. As a full round action, the archivist can cause one of the following effects.
Delusional: The creature sees things that are not there, living a reality only tangentially related to what's actually occuring around them. The target creature is permanently confused.
Paranoid: The creature loses all trust and certainty, feeling they are alone in a dark world bent on destroying them. The target creature is permanently shaken and sickened.
Apathetic: The creature loses all drive and desire, and requires monumental effort to perform even the most desperate needs. The target creature is permanently staggered.
Fatalistic: The creature has fallen into a deep despair, simply waiting for the dark end to come. The target creature is effectively permanently exhausted (no amount of rest will change this effect, as it is not true exhaustion).
The target creature can resist the curse with a Will save (DC 10 + one half the archivist level + Int modifier). Remove curse is not enough to remove this effect, rather greater restoration, heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish is required instead. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this ability again for 1 day.
Archival Mastery (Sp): Upon reaching 20th level, the archivist can attain perfect preservation. With a specially prepared scroll, the archivist may capture a creature entirely. As a full round action, the archivist uses secret writings and utterances forcing a single creature within 100 feet to make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 archivist level + Int modifier). If the creature fails their save, they are absorbed into the scroll. The archivist may retain the creature exactly as she captured it, keeping it in living status until such a time as she releases it.
Alternatively, he can have the mind of the creature wiped upon inscription, effectively slaying the individual creature but retaining it's body and abilities. This "shell" can be later released and used later, completely under the control of the archivist.
When releasing the creature (either intact or with it's mind wiped), the archivist can retain the magic preperations on the scroll as she would any other scroll (allowing it to be used again 24 hours later).
The scroll must be prepared with soul binding magic inscriptions, and requires 1000gp per HD of a prospective target creature. If the scroll does not have sufficient magic to capture the creature, the ability fails, however the scroll can be reused.
Occult Lore: The archivist can observe a specific target and use dark knowledge she has gained to find a weakness. As a standard action, an archivist can make a check as if to identify the creature, however she instead gains a +1 insight bonus to attack and damage and can grant this bonus to all allies within earshot. This bonus lasts until the creature is dead or until the archivist gives different instructions for another target. Upon activation of this ability, the archivist must be able to speak and her allies must be able to hear and understand her to gain the bonus, however it requires no maintenance. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level, and every 4 levels (up to +5 at 17th level). This replaces the Guile ability.
Magewright: The archivist gains the arcane dabbler rogue talent. This replaces the rogue talent gained at 1st level.
Rogue Talents: The archivist can select from the following talents instead of regular rogue talents.
Artifact Lore: The archivist is treated as a spellcaster when using wands in the same manner as she does with scrolls, and may preserve charges in the same manner as preserving scrolls.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The archivist can preserve charges in a staff in the same manner as wands and scrolls.
Master Talents: The archivist can charge a staff using another item (such as a scroll, wand or other staff). The item being used must have a spell of the same level or higher than the staff's highest level spell.
Artifact Creation: The archivist can treat her archivist level as caster levels for prerequisite for magic item crafting and crafting feats. She may select one crafting feat for which she meets the prerequisites.
Improvements
Advanced Talents: The archivist may select an additional crafting feat for which she meets the prerequisites.
Master Talents: The archivist may select two additional crafting feats for which she meets the prerequisities.
Advanced Talents: The archivist can select from the following advanced talents when they are able to select advanced rogue talents.
Artifact Craft Mastery: The archivist reduces the DC increase for ignoring spell requirements for magic item crafting by 4 (DCs are increased by only +1). The archivist must have the artifact creation talent to choose this talent.
Improvements
Master Talents: The archivist doubles the normal amount of crafting that can be done in one day, up to 2000 gp and can complete two items per day.
Expanded Spell Knowledge: The archivist can cast from any scroll (or wand or staff if they have the ability), treating her archivist level as her caster level.
Master Talents: The archivist can select from the following master talents when they are able to select master rogue talents.
Spell Lore (Sp): The archivist can select a single spell of 6th level or lower that targets a single creature. When using the Occult Lore ability, the achivist affects the target with that spell as well. The archivist uses her Intellgience bonus for the DC of this spell.
She may only affect a creature once per day with this spell effect.
Kaisoku |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here's an example of what Merisiel would look like at level 12 with the changes I made (missing only the nimble and troubleshooting skill disciplines).
Merisiel (Iconic Rogue 12)
Female Elf Rogue 12
CN Medium humanoid (elf)
Init +12; Senses low-light vision; Perception +20
DEFENSE
AC 29, touch 18, flat-footed 23 (+8 armor, +2 deflection, +5 Dex, +1 dodge, +3 shield)
hp 105 (12d8+48)
Fort +10, Ref +17, Will +11; +2 vs enchantments
Immune sleep
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft
Melee +3 keen rapier +18/+13 (1d6+12/15-20) or +3 keen rapier +17/+17/+12/+12 (1d6+12/15-20)
Ranged mwk daggers +15/+10 (1d4+9/19-20) or fan of blades (area: cone 30' or 60', 1d4+6 +6 bleed, DC 22 or 25)
Special Attacks guile (+3 attack, +3d6+3 damage), impale (nauseated, forced concentration checks, bleeding, DC15 to remove or 1d4+9 damage)
STATISTICS
Str 17, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +9; CMB +15, +3 with rapier, +3 with dirty trick, disarm, steal and trip; CMD 31, +3 vs rapier
Feats Agile Maneuvers (B), Dodge, Double Slice (B), Improved Initiative, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (B), Mobility, Point-Blank Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot (B), Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting (B), Weapon Finesse (B)
Skills Acrobatics +24, Bluff +19, Climb +21, Disable Device +24, Escape Artist +24, Knowledge (local) +15, Knowledge (nature) +12, Perception +20, Sleight of Hand +24, Stealth +24, and Use Magic Device +16
Cunning Pool 21; Master Skills acrobatics, bluff, disable device, escape artist, perception, sleight of hand, stealth, use magic device
Skill Abilities (4 active)
clandestine - anonymous, blind spot vanish, camouflage, fool senses, hide in plain sight, hide scent, sniper, soft step, trackless
nimble - (not completed)
troubleshooting - (not completed)
Languages Common, Elven
SQ cunning craft (knife fighter: impale, rapid strikes, fan of blades), elven magic, guile bonus +3, master rogue talents (bleeding attack +6, evasion, finesse training, sneak attack +3d6, surprise attack, uncanny dodge), skill disciplines (clandestine, nimble, troubleshooting), skill mastery, weapon familiarity
Combat Gear oil of silence (2), potions of cure serious wounds (3), potion of fly, potions of invisibility (2), acid, alchemist's fire, tanglefoot bag
Other Gear +5 studded leather, +2 buckler, +3 keen rapier, masterwork daggers (12), bag of holding (type I), belt of physical perfection +2, cloak of resistance +3, featherstep slippers, ring of protection +2, universal solvent, backpack, hooded lantern, masterwork thieves' tools, oil (5), silk rope (50 ft.), 766 gp
Traits Forlorn, Reactionary
I chose the knife fighter cunning craft for her, since it seemed to make the most sense with how they built her. I also tried to keep the rogue talents and feat choices as close as possible to the original build as well (retaining Uncanny Dodge and Evasion abilities).
The attack bonus and damage are more on par with the level, and she has a nice set of options in combat between impale and fan of blades. The skill disciplines let her do things with skills that no one else can (or at least matching what magic can do), keeping her more relevant to the gameplay at the higher levels.
Purple Dragon Knight |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Familar: The rogue gains a familiar, [...]
Great idea! I can imagine the rogue in the jail cell giving instructions to his tiny monkey near a sleeping guard, "No!!! not his hat! the key! the key!!!"
However, I don't think you need to impose a skill tax on the rogue, as familiars can use the rogue's ranks to make Sleight of Hand, Disable Device, and Escape Artist, and it has an Intelligence of 6, which means it will understand common and you don't need to use Handle Animal anymore. Handle Animal is just used for creatures of Intelligence 1 or 2. I'm guessing that the familiar will be one with high Dexterity as well, so his skill check will be decent.
Kelazan |
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not especially powerful, but for people who want to try to play a ranged rogue....
Feat: Long Range Sniper
Prerequisites: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Weapon Focus in any bow or crossbow, Sneak Attack class feature
Benefit: When attacking with the weapon with which you qualified for this feat, you apply sneak attack damage anywhere within your weapon's first normal range increment, as long as sneak attack damage would otherwise normally apply (e.g., creature is not immune to precision damage and is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC).
Normal: You can only sneak attack creatures with ranged weapons within 30 feet.
I think that renders one of the sniper's class abilities obsolete, along with the sniper's goggles, but still.
Tacticslion |
So slayer take a talent and gets both trapfinding AND trap sense? I think I must TRULY start to up the ante with my shameless boosts here...
Oh, come on! I covered that, like, the first page! (out of two pages)
Of course, if you want something a little more serious, I couldn't come up with anything more awesome than Cheapy's alteration to the sneak attack, basically turning each d6 into +2 damage instead. Really awesome.
Silent Saturn |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Silent Saturn wrote:
Familar: The rogue gains a familiar, [...]Great idea! I can imagine the rogue in the jail cell giving instructions to his tiny monkey near a sleeping guard, "No!!! not his hat! the key! the key!!!"
However, I don't think you need to impose a skill tax on the rogue, as familiars can use the rogue's ranks to make Sleight of Hand, Disable Device, and Escape Artist, and it has an Intelligence of 6, which means it will understand common and you don't need to use Handle Animal anymore. Handle Animal is just used for creatures of Intelligence 1 or 2. I'm guessing that the familiar will be one with high Dexterity as well, so his skill check will be decent.
Thanks, PDK. That's exactly the idea I was going for. Though I didn't think of it as a skill tax-- more of a skill consolidation in the same vein as the bard's Versatile Performance. Instead of putting ranks in SoH, EA, and DD, just put ranks in Handle Animal and have your pet rat make the other checks for you. I didn't realize familiars get Int 6 and their own ranks.
The rogue may have more skill ranks per level than any other class, but things like Versatile Performance and the Inquisitor's Track and Stern Gaze give them "phantom skill ranks" that mean the rogue isn't even the most skillful despite that being his niche. Giving a rogue a literal skill monkey for a pet would definitely help in that respect.
SiuoL |
Table: Rogue Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Evasion, rogue talent
3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1
4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Rogue talent, uncanny dodge
5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Sneak attack +3d6, getting around
6th +4 +2 +5 +2 Rogue talent, trap sense +2
7th +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak attack +4d6, awesome triggering
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Improved uncanny dodge, rogue talent
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Sneak attack +5d6, trap sense +3
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Advanced talents, rogue talent
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +3 Sneak attack +6d6, think fast
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Rogue talent, trap sense +4
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Sneak attack +7d6, brain matters
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +4 Rogue talent
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +5 Sneak attack +8d6, trap sense +5
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Rogue talent
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Sneak attack +9d6, rumors
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6 Rogue talent, trap sense +6
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 Sneak attack +10d6, accidentalist
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Master strike, rogue talent
getting around(Ex): Rogue got very used to getting around places, dark places. He gains low light vision and can move through crowds as normal.
awesome triggering(Ex): With some practices, the rogue can trigger traps in more awesome ways. By using a some pebble to using his dagger. The rogue may trigger any touch trap he is aware of as immediate action. (He may do so with a time trigger trap if the GM consider it is doable.)He may only trigger one at a time and only may do so if he has not yet taken an immediate action in that round.
think fast(Ex): Whenever the rogue is being in a danger situation, he may make a relative skill check to get out of it as an immediate action. The rogue also gain half of his rogue level as circumstance bonus. He may only do so if he had not yet taken an immediate action, and can only do so once per day.
brain matter(Ex): Being a rogue in a world full of magic is tough, but it will not stop him. His intelligent helps him out smart some magic, he worked out ways to get around it. The rogue may add his intelligent modifier to his will saves.
Rumors(Ex): Information is everything, and only the rogue knows how to deal with it. Once per day, the rogue may spread a rumor. Due to the rumor being spread by may people, anyone who tries to see if the rumor is true or not will have to take -5 to their skill checks. The rogue also gain half of his rogue level as circumstance bonus to stop any rumors from spreading. However, he may only choose to spread a rumor or to stop it, can not do both in the same day.
accidentalist(Ex): Everything is now traps in the eyes of a rogue. The rogue may now use his surrounding to make traps. He may do so once per round as an standard action, and the trap must be trigger by touch or time. If his trap contains no unusual items from that surrounding, the trap will be consider as an accident. The DC to work out such trap equals to 20 + his trap craft skill bonus.
Purple Dragon Knight |
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:Silent Saturn wrote:
Familar: The rogue gains a familiar, [...]Great idea! I can imagine the rogue in the jail cell giving instructions to his tiny monkey near a sleeping guard, "No!!! not his hat! the key! the key!!!"
However, I don't think you need to impose a skill tax on the rogue, as familiars can use the rogue's ranks to make Sleight of Hand, Disable Device, and Escape Artist, and it has an Intelligence of 6, which means it will understand common and you don't need to use Handle Animal anymore. Handle Animal is just used for creatures of Intelligence 1 or 2. I'm guessing that the familiar will be one with high Dexterity as well, so his skill check will be decent.
Thanks, PDK. That's exactly the idea I was going for. Though I didn't think of it as a skill tax-- more of a skill consolidation in the same vein as the bard's Versatile Performance. Instead of putting ranks in SoH, EA, and DD, just put ranks in Handle Animal and have your pet rat make the other checks for you. I didn't realize familiars get Int 6 and their own ranks.
The rogue may have more skill ranks per level than any other class, but things like Versatile Performance and the Inquisitor's Track and Stern Gaze give them "phantom skill ranks" that mean the rogue isn't even the most skillful despite that being his niche. Giving a rogue a literal skill monkey for a pet would definitely help in that respect.
here's the list of familiar abilites; I have put my suggested replacements in bold
Natural Armor Adj.: The number noted here is in addition to the familiar's existing natural armor bonus. keep as is
Int: The familiar's Intelligence score. keep as is
Alertness (Ex): While a familiar is within arm's reach, the master gains the Alertness feat. keep as is
Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a familiar takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if the saving throw fails. keep as is
Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast). Share Abilities: the familiar can use the rogue's skill ranks as normal, and the rogue can also use the familiar's ranks as well. Similarly, the familiar also gains access to all of the rogue's feats, and the rogue also gains access to all of the familiar's feats. Finally, the familiar gains all of the rogue's class abilities (such as but not limited to trapfinding, sneak attack and uncanny dodge), and the rogue gains improved evasion.
Empathic Link (Su): The master has an empathic link with his familiar to a 1 mile distance. The master can communicate empathically with the familiar, but cannot see through its eyes. Because of the link's limited nature, only general emotions can be shared. The master has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does. keep as is
Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates. If the rogue is 3rd level or higher, a familiar gains the following bonus feats, even if he does not meet the prerequisites: Spring Attack, Wind Stance, Lightning Stance, Fleet, Snatch Arrow and Lunge. These bonus feats cannot be shared via the Share Abilities feature.
Speak with Master (Ex): If the master is 5th level or higher, a familiar and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help. keep as is
Speak with Animals of Its Kind (Ex): If the master is 7th level or higher, a familiar can communicate with animals of approximately the same kind as itself (including dire varieties): bats with bats, cats with felines, hawks and owls and ravens with birds, lizards and snakes with reptiles, monkeys with other simians, rats with rodents, toads with amphibians, and weasels with ermines and minks. Such communication is limited by the Intelligence of the conversing creatures. keep as is
Spell Resistance (Ex): If the master is 11th level or higher, a familiar gains spell resistance equal to the master's level + 5. To affect the familiar with a spell, another spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the familiar's spell resistance. keep as is
Scry on Familiar (Sp): If the master is 13th level or higher, he may scry on his familiar (as if casting the scrying spell) once per day. keep as is
Adam B. 135 |
My custom rogue class:
http://tinyurl.com/ma7zzls
Summary:
Full BaB, remade sneak attack, scaling dodge bonus to AC,new class features to buff stealth, a dodge roll to oppose one enemy attack once per round, and a buttload of new and reworked rogue talents.
If you were dead set on just modifying the existing rogue I'd do this:
Give sneak attack a +1 attack bonus at level 1 that goes up every 3 levels. Rogues suddenly can be accurate while they sneak attack. Literally become the best at taking advantage of enemy weakness.
Give Rogues half their level to stealth.
Include these rogue talents for sure:
-Suave: Gain half your rogue level to Diplomacy and Bluff checks
-Jump ‘em!: Gain +1 to initiative every 4 rogue levels. This bonus is doubled if you can act in the surprise round.
Advanced talents
-Fearsome: Gain half your rogue level to Intimidate. You can use intimidate to demoralize one creature within 30 feet as a free action when you can act in the surprise round. If you successfully demoralize an enemy in the surprise round, and hit with your sneak attack they are frightened for 1 round before suffering the normal effects of being demoralized.
-Tough Attitude: A rogue gains their Charisma bonus to Fortitude and Will saving throws.
-Hide in Plain Sight: Make it no longer require a favored terrain.
SiuoL |
My custom rogue class:
http://tinyurl.com/ma7zzlsSummary:
Full BaB, remade sneak attack, scaling dodge bonus to AC,new class features to buff stealth, a dodge roll to oppose one enemy attack once per round, and a buttload of new and reworked rogue talents.If you were dead set on just modifying the existing rogue I'd do this:
Give sneak attack a +1 attack bonus at level 1 that goes up every 3 levels. Rogues suddenly can be accurate while they sneak attack. Literally become the best at taking advantage of enemy weakness.
Give Rogues half their level to stealth.
Include these rogue talents for sure:
-Suave: Gain half your rogue level to Diplomacy and Bluff checks
-Jump ‘em!: Gain +1 to initiative every 4 rogue levels. This bonus is doubled if you can act in the surprise round.Advanced talents
-Fearsome: Gain half your rogue level to Intimidate. You can use intimidate to demoralize one creature within 30 feet as a free action when you can act in the surprise round. If you successfully demoralize an enemy in the surprise round, and hit with your sneak attack they are frightened for 1 round before suffering the normal effects of being demoralized.
-Tough Attitude: A rogue gains their Charisma bonus to Fortitude and Will saving throws.
-Hide in Plain Sight: Make it no longer require a favored terrain.
I personally think rogue should never have full BAB, lost the flavor of rogue is not the best at face to face fighting. Now you just made rogue a fighter with more skills and stuffs instead of armor training. And scale dodge bonus, rogue don't need that. You not supposed to take hits.
As for sneak attack, your target is already flat footed, so they should be hit unless they have armor. Which make sense, you don't want paladin and fighter to be kill by rogue's sneak attack. Those two class are created to beat rogue.
I believe what we should aim for is to make rogue the best at over come spells that require reflex saves and will saves, also allow them to disable magic devices from quickly without breaking out of stealth or using magic items. Break those bracers of armor those casters love so much. Rogue supposed to be badass because they should be undetected when the are not using magic items. Skillful, cunning and stealthy. That what rogue supposed to be, not a fighter with too much skills and better while still get beaten by casters.
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
For a finessey fighty combat specialist, I think the Slayer and the Swashbuckler are going to fill that niche fine. And people who want the rogue to be a finessey fighty combat specialist, should really just aim to use those classes instead.
I agree with SiuoL -- to me the rogue is a specialist, not an all out warrior, and I dislike "fixes" that turn the rogue into a full martial character, which is NOT what I want to see the rogue be, even if others clearly do. And I agree that what would help them be what I see them as supposed to be being is things like enhancements to stealth and finding clever ways to hinder opponents. Better magic defenses (trap sense is s*+%, frankly; how often has anyone ever benefited from it?) makes sense too. I always thought Slippery Mind should be accessible lower than 10th level too, and be gained by everyone, not optionally.
It occurs to me, rogues should be really great at combat maneuvers--especially steal, dirty trick, disarm--IIRC their role is described in the core rulebook as something like finding ways to outmaneuver and hinder foes. The rogue should be the one kicking the bucket onto the opponent's head, cutting the chandelier to trap the foe within, swiping the wand from the sorcerer when he isn't looking, so the foe becomes an easier target for everyone. And yet combat maneuvers are a real weakness for the rogue: less than full BAB always hurts the ability to do combat maneuvers well, and you can't count on a rogue to have good Strength, and agile maneuvers becomes a feat tax for them. The best archetype for dirty trick, etc. is a fighter archetype (the cad). But that's really the kind of thing where a rogue should shine. Hmmm.... perhaps I feel an archetype coming on.
Also, talking of rogues with familiars (upthread), I keep picturing some monkey grinder type showman, using the monkey to distract people while the grinder picks everyone's pockets.
Da'ath |
I recently started working on a rebalance of classes for my home campaign; I decided to start with rogue, but a few of the changes I've made thusfar can be found here WoS - Rogue.
Many of the changes have been borrowed from other sources and it is a work in progress, but I've added a few of my own, as well.
Adam B. 135 |
Adam B. 135 wrote:My custom rogue class:
http://tinyurl.com/ma7zzlsSummary:
Full BaB, remade sneak attack, scaling dodge bonus to AC,new class features to buff stealth, a dodge roll to oppose one enemy attack once per round, and a buttload of new and reworked rogue talents.If you were dead set on just modifying the existing rogue I'd do this:
Give sneak attack a +1 attack bonus at level 1 that goes up every 3 levels. Rogues suddenly can be accurate while they sneak attack. Literally become the best at taking advantage of enemy weakness.
Give Rogues half their level to stealth.
Include these rogue talents for sure:
-Suave: Gain half your rogue level to Diplomacy and Bluff checks
-Jump ‘em!: Gain +1 to initiative every 4 rogue levels. This bonus is doubled if you can act in the surprise round.Advanced talents
-Fearsome: Gain half your rogue level to Intimidate. You can use intimidate to demoralize one creature within 30 feet as a free action when you can act in the surprise round. If you successfully demoralize an enemy in the surprise round, and hit with your sneak attack they are frightened for 1 round before suffering the normal effects of being demoralized.
-Tough Attitude: A rogue gains their Charisma bonus to Fortitude and Will saving throws.
-Hide in Plain Sight: Make it no longer require a favored terrain.I personally think rogue should never have full BAB, lost the flavor of rogue is not the best at face to face fighting. Now you just made rogue a fighter with more skills and stuffs instead of armor training. And scale dodge bonus, rogue don't need that. You not supposed to take hits.
As for sneak attack, your target is already flat footed, so they should be hit unless they have armor. Which make sense, you don't want paladin and fighter to be kill by rogue's sneak attack. Those two class are created to beat rogue.
I believe what we should aim for is to make rogue the best at over come spells that require reflex saves and will saves, also allow...
It's obvious what you did not like. Now how about other things you did not address?
-Rogue gaining a dodge roll to attempt to negate an attack once per round
-rogues gaining half their level to stealth (Inquisitors can get this with an inquisition)
-new rogue talents. (did you notice one of them buffed will saves?)
-Fool the Senses: At 7th level, a Rogue cannot be detected by a creature’s tremorsense, blindsense, or blindsight when using the Stealth skill. (taken from my link in previous post but I forgot to mention it). With this a Rogue can actually sneak into a dragon's lair and steal from them while they are sleeping. Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Also I am not sure if you are aware of this but many strong monsters have negative dexterity modifiers, meaning that their flat footed AC and normal AC are the same. These monsters still are hard to hit, due to massive natural armor scores. Even without considering those enemies, rogues factually have problems hitting foes, flat-footed or not.
I recently started working on a rebalance of classes for my home campaign; I decided to start with rogue, but a few of the changes I've made thusfar can be found here WoS - Rogue.
Many of the changes have been borrowed from other sources and it is a work in progress, but I've added a few of my own, as well.
I really like it! Good job man. Also happy to see Hide in Plain Sight be as good as it should be. My only complaint would be that the Rogue still needs to be more accurate. Perhaps a scaling bonus to sneak attack rolls for every 4 or 5 levels?
Also, you should change this text" When making a ranged precision attack, a rogue must be within 30 feet of his target."
to this "When making a ranged precision attack, a rogue must be within sneak attack range"
That way it will synergize with the rogue talents that improve sneak attack range.
SiuoL |
It's obvious what you did not like. Now how about other things you did not address?-Rogue gaining a dodge roll to attempt to negate an attack once per round
-rogues gaining half their level to stealth (Inquisitors can get this with an inquisition)
-new rogue talents. (did you notice one of them buffed will saves?)
-Fool the Senses: At 7th level, a Rogue cannot be detected by a creature’s tremorsense, blindsense, or blindsight when using the Stealth skill. (taken from my link in previous post but I forgot to mention it). With this a Rogue can actually sneak into a dragon's lair and steal from them while they are sleeping. Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?Also I am not sure if you are aware of this but many strong monsters have negative dexterity modifiers, meaning that their flat footed AC and normal AC are the same. These monsters still are hard to hit, due to massive natural armor scores. Even without considering those enemies, rogues factually have problems hitting foes, flat-footed or not.
While I agree rogue should be able to stealth through anything no matter what even if there are magic involve, I can not agree with many other points with you. First, rogue is not a monster slayer, not even meant to fight anything with hit armor up front like an idiot. I always think about the Joker from Dark Knight whenever I play a rogue. Doesn't have to be evil or chaotic or even crazy, but just don't play by rules. Does anyone knows who's the Joker? No. Can anyone find the Joker? No, he will find you when he wants you. Does Joker need any magic items? No! He is not a fighter like Batman. All he needs is his intelligent. And that's how I believe the perfect rogue should be. Not a fighter with more skills instead of weapon and armor trainings.
It doesn't matter if most of the monster have high flat-footed AC. It's not your job! Is it fighter's job to hit those things with high AC? No, it's the caster's job. Drop their AC, nuke them with spells, whatever the do to bring them down. What's fighter's job? Protect caster from something that can kill them with few hits that they can't see, aka rogue. Reason why rogue and fighter sucks mostly because GMs being blinded by so many type of monsters out there and forgot the important part of the story. It will always be driven by PCs and NPCs, not monsters, so they should create enough encounters between PCs and NPCs according to what the did. Not setting a path filled with monsters for no good reasons.
However, I do agree that it is just what I think. Some people do prefer to play a skillful fighter that can fight and call them rogue, but it's just not my taste.
Kaisoku |
I dunno, from the description it sounds like what you want from the Rogue is kind of one-dimensional. About as much as the Fighter is (with combat instead of skills).
I don't see the issue with a rogue being good at some specialized combat scenarios (like sneak attack and a short-list of combat maneuvers), while being great at skilled things (like social or troubleshooting or scouting activities).
On the flipside, I'd like it if the Fighter had something going for him in a specialized skill situation (pick a single, thematically appropriate skill activity and get boosts to it), while being generally great at combat.
.
And regardless, whatever is done to either class, they should be given a suite of abilities that are more quadratic in growth, instead of linear (or even hyper-specialized, like feat chains).
If we want to boost Rogues to a level where they can match what the Tier 1 to 3 classes can do (handling a wide variety of scenarios throughout all levels, with a single character build), then Rogues need something that grants them some kind of "better than just pluses" benefits, and get a large suite of them that they can interchange on a regular basis; as well as competing against the highly magical environment of the higher levels (by either duplicating or thwarting).
Da'ath |
I really like it! Good job man. Also happy to see Hide in Plain Sight be as good as it should be. My only complaint would be that the Rogue still needs to be more accurate. Perhaps a scaling bonus to sneak attack rolls for every 4 or 5 levels?
Also, you should change this text
" When making a ranged precision attack, a rogue must be within 30 feet of his target."
to this "When making a ranged precision attack, a rogue must be within sneak attack range"
That way it will synergize with the rogue talents that improve sneak attack range.
When my group asked me to start it, for our next campaign, one of the biggest complaints was how Hide In Plain Sight worked and how many iterations of it existed in the game. In 2e, for example, only rogues could do it. When you look at Pathfinder's, everyone and their brother can do it, but better than a rogue. Making it constent was a big deal. We want, ultimately, rogues and rangers to be the go to guys for Stealth-related abilities.
Almost all of the credit goes to Lemmy (and others) who's ideas I've blatantly stolen for my home setting. As my group doesn't use Prestige Classes, we've been converting the ones we like into archetypes (assassin, shadowdancer, etc), while gutting those we'll never use for rogue ideas (rogues have some of the worst archetypes out there).
Good catch on the precision attack - I'll correct that immediately.
I'm torn on the accuracy of Sneak Attack (and Precision). On the one hand, I want the rogue to use his character level in place of his Base Attack Bonus (BAB) when making these attacks. On the other hand, I was considering yanking and mofifying Dilettante Studies from rogue for rogues - I don't want them to get both benefits.
A rogue chooses two different dilettante studies from the list below.
Dilettante Performer (Su) A rogue treats his effective bard level as two higher for the purpose of the bardic performance class ability. He must have the bardic performance class ability to choose this dilettante study.
Dilettante Scholar (Su) A rogue gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class.
Dilettante Scoundrel (Ex) A rogue gains a +1d6 sneak attack bonus as per the rogue class ability. If a rogue gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.
Dilettante Warrior (Ex) A rogue gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.
A rogue may select this talent a second time as an advanced talent. The rogue again chooses two different dilettante studies to add to his repertoire. If either of these are duplicates of those chosen previously, the bonuses stack.
I like Dilettante because it allows the rogue to choose options if he multiclasses, options which may vary due to the path he's taking.
I'm really torn, but I know I don't want them to stack.
Da'ath |
You know what? Dilettante studies would be wicked sweet. For the guy who wants pure rogue, he just takes Scoundrel and Warrior. Anyone multiclassing has different options that just work. Go with Dilettante. It is cooler.
Thanks for the reassurance. I've been leaning heavily toward Dilettante, primarily because you can squeeze out a little more accuracy, add a little more sneak attack, but not go over the top. I'll add it in tonight with some other stuff (when my 3 year old daughter is asleep and not running around like a monkey on acid).
Da'ath |
Though I do recommend adding something "skill friendly" to Dilettante studies. Lacking that part always bugged me when I played my Noble Scion.
Valid point. I'll have to look over some of the other systems I've got laying around and see if there's something unique for skills I haven't considered before.
Silent Saturn |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Some more rogue talents:
Adrenaline Rush: The rogue gains the ability to enter a rage-like state in much the same way as a barbarian. This functions as the barbarian's rage class feature. The rogue gains a number of rounds of rage equal to her 3 plus his Constitution modifier. In addition, whenever the rogue would gain a new rogue talent, she may instead choose a barbarian rage power. If the rogue gains the rage class feature from any other source, this talent stacks with those rounds of rage.
Unsanctioned Theologian: The rogue has spent time among the church, either in practicing her own faith or having infiltrated it for her own purposes, and has learned quite a bit from this time. The rogue adds Knowledge: Religion to her list of class skills. In addition, the rogue chooses two of her deity's domains. She now treats those domains' spells as being on her class spell list for purposes of activating magic items. Finally, she gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. If she does not have the ability to cast spells, she may only scribe scrolls of her domain spells, and only if her rogue level is more than twice the spell level of the scroll she is trying to scribe. If the rogue has levels in a spellcasting class, she may prepare these domain spells or add them to her list of spells known as though they were on the spell list of her spellcasting class.
Pinpoint Strike: The rogue is especially adept at aiming her sneak attack strikes. Whenever she makes a sneak attack, she gets a +1 insight bonus on the attack roll for each d6 of sneak attack dice she has.
Da'ath |
How about,
Dilattante Tradesman (Ex): Select three skills. These skills count as having rolled one higher when taking a 10 on them.
Provides some nice power if the rogue also takes the Skill Mastery Advanced Rogue talent.
I rather like that idea. I'll add it into my To-Do list for tonight's updates on projects. Thanks!
The only thing I could actually come up with for skills in the dilettante was possibly allowing them to treat any roll of a skill between 2-4 as a 5 on 2 selected skills, then the advanced would give 2-7 as an 8, but I have no idea how that would interact with other things (i.e. I didn't bother to look things up).
Atarlost |
I still haven't seen anything that looks more fun than my idea. It's unique and not something other classes can practically take away. It has limitations without being either magic or a disassociated mechanic.
Yes, it's slow, but shouldn't really be much slower than the guy running a wizard, a familiar, and summoned monster if you have a big pile of d12s. And it's an excuse to have a big pile of d12s because you can't tell me dodecahedrons aren't the coolest platonic solid.
Mordo the Spaz - Forum Troll |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Shameless boosts for rogues - Post Here!
Shameless Boost - A naked rogue gains a +2 bonus to Bluff during combat and the Dirty Trick combat maneuver. A rogue with the Charming trait doubles his or her trait bonus when naked.
Mosaic |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not as much a change to the class, but a rules change that would mostly benefit rogues.
If moving past an enemy w/o provoking an AO: Acrobatics vs CMD,
And moving through an enemy w/o provoking: Acrobatic vs CMD + 5,
Then...
Solo Flank
If a character begins his or her turn adjacent to an enemy and uses Acrobatics to move through the enemy's square, and if he/she can beat the regular DC by 5 (so CMD + 10), the enemy is considered flat-footed to the character's next attack.
Kind of an Acrobatics-based companion to Feinting. (Oh, and Feinting should start as a move action and become a swift action with Improved Feint)
Corvino |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Personally I'm inclined toward simplicity. Rogues have a good deal of MAD for the "minor" mental stats, which I'd be tempted to consolidate with Rogue Talents.
Versatile Wit (Ex)
You may not have the inherent personal magnetism and charm that some people display, but your well-considered advice, razor-sharp insults and perfectly-judged flattery make you just as effective.
You may use your Intelligence modifier in place of Charisma for any Charisma based skill. Your Rogue level must be at least 4 to take this Rogue Talent.
Streetsmart (Ex)
While you may lack formal education, determining the truth has never been a problem for you. Seeing through falsehoods and trickery comes as second nature.
You may use your Intelligence modifier instead of Wisdom modifier to affect your Will saves. Your Rogue level must be at least 4 to take this Rogue Talent.
The "smart" Rogue is an appealing trope, but at present a high Int only rewards you with a few bonus skillpoints and miscellaneous skill bonuses. Having it count toward your social skills, UMD and otherwise weak Will saves could make it a more appealing option. None of this will make a Rogue overpowered, but could make the choice of which mental stat to focus on clearer. The minimum Rogue level of 4 means they're not available as a minimal dip.
Queen Moragan |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
A rogue gains a bonus to hit when making a sneak attack equal to her rogue level.
Agile Attack (EX): Rogues constantly hone their finesse with weapons. A rogue may add her Dexterity modifier in place of her Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks. Add the wielder's Dexterity modifier to damage for melee attacks with any weapon usable with the weapon finesse feat if it's used in the primary hand, or half the wielder's Dexterity bonus if it's used in the offhand. If the weapon is used two-handed add only the wielder's Dexterity bonus not 1-1/2 times the wielder's Dexterity bonus.
Sneak Attack Talent (EX): As a rogue gains levels, she learns to use her sneak attack in new ways. Starting at 2nd level, a rogue gains a sneak attack talent. She gains another sneak attack talent for every two levels of rogue attained after 2nd level. She can choose only a rogue talent that effects her sneak attack.
Ranged Sneak Attack (EX): Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30' + 5' per rogue level.
eggplantman |
Here is the rogue upgrade my group has been using with good results. It involves a big change to sneak attack and a minor change to AC.
Sneak attack - First, instead of d6's, use d4's. This is because your rogue always does this damage with any attack. In addition, certain conditions give you sneak attack advantage or disadvantage which adds +1 or subtracts -1 point of damage per die of sneak attack. This result can end up being as low as zero. The conditions should be familiar and include:
opponent Flanked +1
opponent Surprised +1
Opponent denied dex bonus +1
Opponent grappled or entangled +1
Opponent helpless +4 (not cumulative with other effects)
Immune to sneak attack / precision damage -1
Opponent outside normal sneak attack range -1
So, for example a 5th level rogue will always do 3d4 sneak damage in melee combat with each attack. If he is flanking, it is 3d4+3. If he is attacking an elemental, he does 3d4-3 (cannot be flanked and immune to sneak attack). All ranged attack add +3d4 unless he is beyond 30' when they will do 3d4-3 is all.
The second boost is similar to the monk's AC bonus that goes up with levels. It only applies if the rogue is wearing light armor, not heavily encumbered and the rogue does not add his intelligence or wisdom.
Purple Dragon Knight |
Agile Attack (EX): Rogues constantly hone their finesse with weapons. A rogue may add her Dexterity modifier in place of her Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks. Add the wielder's Dexterity modifier to damage for melee attacks with any weapon usable with the weapon finesse feat if it's used in the primary hand, or half the wielder's Dexterity bonus if it's used in the offhand. If the weapon is used two-handed add only the wielder's Dexterity bonus not 1-1/2 times the wielder's Dexterity bonus.
I think this one single ability, perhaps granted at level 5 (like the Gunslinger gun training 1 ability), would probably fix 90% of the class.