The pro-Russian protesters were reportedly armed with Russian-made AK100 submachine guns which are usually used by the Russian military
Fun fact:THIS is AK-100
There is,of course,AK-10X series,,but it,too,has a problem.Namely,it's EXPORT version of AK-74,substantially modified.
Primary operator?
Venezuela.Over 200.000 of them,but it's sold to basically anyone willing to pay.
Russian military?They use AK-74.
Rebels capture tank.With nothing but balls and lots of swearing.
Well,tank is always a good thing.
and down the slippery slope you go, the noose of the hangmans rope your only destination.
You know,i'm pretty sure that Ukraine has more than enough of weapons.
Problem is somewhere else entirely.
and down the slippery slope you go, the noose of the hangmans rope your only destination.You know,i'm pretty sure that Ukraine has more than enough of weapons.
Problem is somewhere else entirely.
Moscow?
Moscow?
Tokyo?Kiev?Washington?
Actually,i was talking about morale.
Polk Winner on Afghanistan: Slain Journalists, Ghost Polls & Unresolved U.S. Ties to Deaths, Torture
Sorry, I get bored with all the "Sexy Putin is the most nefarious man on Earth" bullshiznit.
Well he is (was?) on Obama's President's Exports Council (or whatever it's called.)
Kramatorsk time!
Airforce in action.Kinda.
Personal commentary:i'm in no way THAT much of a military freak,but actions near the end of the clip looks to me like deploying countermeasures and usage of on-board cannon.
Which raises a lot of questions,namely:where are the normal weapons?
Also i commend operator's actions.Hear the shots?Stop filming and get your family away from the windows,like,NOW!
Very bad quality,same place but possible fake
Where the hell rebels get MANPADS?It's not the something that is in every APC's armory.
Oh wait....
Also,Dnepropetrovsk,two days ago.
Yep,that copter video was a fake.Well,not fake,but from Syria.
As of now,there has been some shootouts,mostly in Kramatorsk.
No reliable data for casualties,sources say anywhere from 2 to 20 KIA.
Military airfield near Kramatorsk may or may not have changed hands.Possibly more than once.Nothing else changed hands,which makes me think that government kinda sucks in supression.
God this is my most informative post in history.
God this is my most informative post in history.
No it's not.
No it's not.
God this is my most informative post in history.
It's called sarcasm.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's called sarcasm.No it's not.
God this is my most informative post in history.
Are you sure you're Russian? (Not sure if you are, thought you stated you were...).
Everyone knows Britain invented Sarcasm...
Are you sure you're Russian?
More or less.
Everyone knows Britain invented Sarcasm...
Is ability to understand it limited to brits too?)
Also,possibly,but unlikely,fake statement of DPR on present situation:
Today, on 04.15.2014, the newly founded Donetsk People's Republic became the target of military aggression on part of Ukraine.The Ukrainian authority that came to power as a result of an armed anti-constitutional coup, initiated military actions in the territory of the Donetsk People's Republic, using the soldiers of Ukrainian armed forces, gunmen from illegal armed bands and servicemen from foreign private military companies financed by the USA.
Under the guise of false statements about an alleged anti-terrorist operation, they actually declared war on the people, using heavy weapons and aircraft. The lives of civilians are in danger. As Kiev has warned, the possibility of large-scale missile and bombing raids against cities is not out of the question.
Thus, the fascist regime of Ukraine, supported and financed by the USA and the Western European countries has actually started genocide of the Russian-speaking population in the territory of the Donetsk People's Republic.
The foundation of the Donetsk People's Republic is an objective reality that became necessary as a consequence of complete collapse of the Ukrainian government institutions after an anti-constitutional coup, it was founded in order to defend constitutional rights and liberties of the people residing in the territory of the Donetsk People's Republic.
Being aware that it is the last obstacle on the aggressor's way to the destruction of Russia, the people and the government of the Donetsk People's Republic, the command and personnel of the South Eastern Army hereby declare that the aggressor will be immediately rebuffed as it deserves.
We demand that the reactionary circles of the USA and the Western European countries who gave the Kiev regime their blessing to perform a military operation stop aggression and stop supporting and financing the illegitimate Ukrainian "authorities".
We apply to the multinational people of the Russian Federation, to our Russian brothers, to the authorities of the Russian Federation and to Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin in person with a request to render diplomatic, humanitarian and, if possible, military aid to the Donetsk People's Republic, to act as a guarantor of its security, to curb the presumptuous death squads, to establish peace and to ensure the holding of peaceful nationwide referendum.
We ask the multinational people of the Russian Federation, our Russian brothers, the authorities of the Russian Federation and Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin in person to consider extending recognition to the Donetsk People's Republic as an international entity and concluding a treaty of political, economical and military cooperation with it.
We, the people of all the 180 ethnic groups living in Donbass, are Russians.
We were born as Russians, we live as Russians and we shall die as Russians if need be.
God and Russia are with us.The enemy will be crushed.
The victory will be ours!
I,personally,not happy with incomplete Molotov's quote.
I see what they are trying to do,but first sentence of the quote is vitally important!
re: Events in Kramatorks, Sloviansk, Donestsk Oblast (SE Ukraine)
As per their announced "anti-terror" "anti-separatist" operation (vs. groups whose announced aim is federalization),
the Kiev junta sent in armed forces including actual army units (which is illegal for internal use, and never done under Yanukovych),
first concentrating on taking the local airfield. They appear to have 'seized' it, with some reports indicating some deaths,
but they ended up surrounded by local protestors, harangued and questioned what they are doing, who are they going to shoot, etc,
the military forces seeming to not want to attack protestors, and apparently the protestors still have the base semi-surrounded.
Reported deaths from military seizing airbase
Troops fire as locals in Kramatorsk confront Ukraine general Vasily Krutov
Video, and another pic of the above scene, apparently.
Then, in nearby Kramatorsk, columns of APCs/light tanks entered the town, and likewise were surrounded by protestors,
but the troops manning the vehicles seem to have switched sides, putting up Russian flags on the vehicles, and Orange&Black ribbons.
6+ vehicles along with troops "defected", with at least some now headed to Donetsk under control of the Donetsk forces.
Apparently the "defecting" troops (a questionable word for not following orders of illegal coup) said they hadn't even been being fed,
which echoes reports of some Ukrainian border guards being fed by their Russian counterparts on the other side of border.
Not all the military sent by the junta are "defecting", armed helicopters continue to circle overhead,
but in some other areas of Kramatorsk, protestors have formed human chains or otherwise blocked in the tanks.
Junta forces "recaptured" one police building, possibly after negotiations, but protestors then seized another security service building.
Supposedly protestors are also blocking rail lines, and one report says that "acting (coup) President" Turchinov has now dismissed his Interior Minister.
With troops and police not exhibiting loyalty to the coup regime, some have had their weapons confiscated before they could "defect". (from 1:05)
Crisis in eastern Ukraine: Ukrainian soldiers with tanks switch sides (in German)
Translation: "We haven't had anything decent to eat for weeks. Kiev has forgotten us. We've had enough[?]" cried one of the soldiers. "We are [with?] the people," cried another."
Supposedly more video of the scene from another German media, although I can't get it to load for some reason...? (only works for German IPs?)
Apparently 'defected' troops doing celebratory 'donuts' with tanks, other video of 'defected' tanks.
Journalist on the scene Alec Luhn: "Talking to pro-Russian militia in Slaviansk. Where did you get the tanks? "They came to us"
"Protestors on the highway checkpoint are cheering the passage of the pro-Russian armored column. Haven't seen them this happy, well, ever"
"A civilian is asking the soldier: will you pull the trigger? Really? The answer: of course not, I've got 3 kids!"
Protestors blocking in tanks pic/ pic/pic, giving troops bread while disarming them
So... Very qualified optimism!?!? That deserves a picture
Elsewhere in Ukraine,
There seems to be developments in Odessa, roadblocks and self defence forces, and possibly a declaration of an Odessan Republic, although the reports are vague enough to not be worth linking to. Here is a nice picture of a protest there, though.
This is the latest pic of "pro-Russian" Ukrainian leader Oleg Tsarov after being assaulted by a mob of thugs while leaving a televised debate in Kiev, with the building supposedly being surrounded by the attackers... But this is like the 3rd violent assault on this guy in just the last week, he was previously assaulted while campaigning in Odessa and Nikolaev, as well as being attacked by Svoboda deputies on the floor of the national parliament. He is calling for federalization and has announced he is working on a new draft Constitution in line with that. His public statements seem limited by the repressive political atmosphere under the coup regime, yet still aiming to express a viewpoint independent from the coup... With his participation in the junta-organized election seen as possibly legitimizing the coup, he has affirmed he doesn't recognize their legitimacy, yet in response to accusation he supports Russian intervention, he has said he opposes foreign intervention (which of course could also apply to the foreign backers of the coup regime). I'm not really sure how to take his candidacy, he doubtfully could even campaign in many Central/Western regions of the country given the attacks against him even in the South... But he could just be using the relative protection offered by being an official candidate in the junta-organized election (i.e. arresting him or letting him die would further discredit the junta) in order to publicly campaign for federalization and organize SE regional forces independent of the coup regime. He was formerly of the Party of Regions, from Dnipropetrovsk, but was kicked out after the coup, with the power figures of PoR largely seeming to want to cooperate with the junta (no doubt an opportunistic decision what with Maidan forces calling for the banning of the party).
The latest evolution of Julia Tymoshenko... But first, to re-cap:
She began politics known as the "Gas Princess" for her opaque role as multi-millionaire oligarch in gas business during '90s.
She was elected PM after the previous US-backed "Orange Revolution", was noted for negotiating a gas deal with Russia
(Ukraine even then being practically bankrupt and unable to pay, had precipitated a crisis by stealing transit gas meant for delivery to EU)
as well as generally being fawned upon by NATO press for her hairstyle, finally losing to Yanukovych in the next election.
Yanukovych put her in jail on what is considered politically trumped up charges related to her signing the gas deal with Russia.
(the same deal the Kiev junta does not want to comply with, with Russian insistence on enforcement of terms practically presented as a warcrime by NATO media)
(Russia in fact directly contradicted Yanukovych's claims about the case vs. Tymoshenko, stating it was baseless i.e. political thuggery)
She was released from jail immediately after the coup, speaking at Maidan but having so-so reception, likely due to unimpressive end of Orange government.
Following the Crimean referendum held with Russian protection, she was recorded ranting to a colleague about wanting to kill all Russians/"Moskals".
In recent events with residents of SE Ukraine ("Novo Rossiya") rebelling against the junta, seeking federalized autonomy/secession,
I had seen reports she was seeking a more conciliatory/cooperative path with Russia with a better personal relationship there,
but now (just before the "anti terror" operation in Kramatorsk) she has announced forming her own militia (in addition to multiple forces led by junta, and Right Sector),
first to operate out of Fatherland headquarters, and supposedly set to move to the SE (Dnipropetrovsk?).
Now that is a flexible politician.
Latest reports I had seen had both Tymoshenko and other junta-aligned Presidential candidate (and oligarch) Petro Poroshenko ("The Chocolate King") participating in junta government meetings on planning the "anti-terror" response to SE Ukraine protestors occupying buildings and generally re-appropriating Maidan tactics. Politicians outside of government participating in cabinet meetings normally being highly unusual in democracies, but of course the Junta Knows Best.
Fun fact: Olesandr Turchynov, "acting President" of the junta, was director of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) in 2005 under the Orange Revolution government, the SBU being the successor to the Soviet KGB in Ukraine and implicated in illegal spying and "dirty tricks". The latest news from Ukraine includes the US head of CIA visiting Kiev and the junta-run SBU, supposedly receiving copies of all personnel files and even occupying an entire floor of the building reserved just for US staff... None of that is really confirmable, other than the fact that the US admitted to the CIA director visiting there once media picked up on it.
The story about a MANPADS shoot-down seems to be bogus, as the video seems lifted from this video showing jihadi rebels in Syria (shouts of "allahu akhbar!" edited out for Ukraine version).
Oh, BTW, here is a wholly mainstream NATO-centric "national security" blog with a lawyer explaining the problem with lack of legal basis of coup and how they removed the President. It examine the junta's actions beyond that, such as eviscerating the Constitutional Court and packing it before having it rule on Crimea's referendum, changing the Constitution, etc, but basically all actions after that point have a legitimacy problem stemming from the illegal removal of the President, and any of their orders to police or military have no sound basis because they're not a legit government. That legal argument isn't even going into how Maidan mobs took over Parliament threatening force against it's members, some of them being beaten at some points, others fleeing to not show up any more, etc.
...International law does support Russian claims that the interim government in Kiev is illegitimate, that Russia can invoke a legal position to mount a humanitarian intervention, and that Russia was lawfully invited by the constitutional government (i.e., President Yanukovych) to re-establish peace and security in the Ukraine.
All in all, it would be wise for Western leaders to refrain from accusing Russia of violating international law. The US and the European nations would fare much better by cooperating with the Russian administration to find a diplomatic solution to the political chaos at hand.
Here is a pic of the attack jet sent by junta, flying over Kramatorsk.
(translation: During the assault at the airport Kramators'k killed 4 people, 2 more injured)
BTW, several reports have interviewed armed participants of anti-junta forces in Kramatorsk, with some participants stating they are natives from Crimea come to help others standing up to the Kiev junta. No sign of the "polite men in green" in the SE so far, not matching the uniforms seen by the Russian forces used in Crimea, more a motley blend of uniforms, from police, to UKR military, ukrainian afghan vets, guys with hunting camo, as well as street clothes, etc.
From RT (before I go to bed):
11:32 GMT: The Russian flags on Ukrainian Armored Personnel Carriers (APCs) were a stratagem, Kiev says. According to the acting head of the Batkivshchina Party, Sergey Sobolev, the Ukrainian military raised Russian flags on their vehicles on purpose, to fool the Donetsk region’s self-defense squads and thus be able to get into areas under the control of protesters.
“Those were our military units using guerilla methods of intervention,” Sobolev said, citing the acting Defense Minister. “Very soon, in two to three hours this maneuver is going to be disclosed and you’ll understand that it was actually a breakthrough, which our units thus carried out.”
Hmm... very soon will see what 6 APCs isolated from supporting junta forces will do.
I'm even more interested in the troops giving up arms in exchange for bread. Those guys for sure read Sun-Tzu.And has anybody noticed how this junta government just seems to be filled with "actors". PORTRAYING a real government. Funny that.
11:30 GMT: Three more Ukrainian armored vehicles switched sides in the Donetsk Region, according to RIA Novosti. The vehicles came to the center of Slavyansk, took down their Ukrainian flags and handed their weapons to self-defense squads.
“We decided not to be at war with the people and not to defend authorities like this,” members of the crews explained.
Things are gettibg reaaally s$%*ty. And the media in my coubtry is pretty much silebt, apart from the occacional "putin is a meanie"-rant. Most meaningful info i get from this thread, actually, especially quandarys posts.
Thanks, I make the effort to post here because I'm sure alot of people aren't getting that info relayed by mainstream media around them.
BTW, it won't let me edit now but wanted to make a comment that I wasn't really sure if there was "defections" of the soldiers driving APCs, or if they just "gave up" and didn't want to fight the citizens there and just walked away without the armored vehicles... Plenty of other vets can drive and operate them, I'm sure.
Maybe some of both, hard to tell... Similar implications in loyalty to junta/willingness to attack citizens who are federalists/referendumists/separatists.
Alec Luhn writes: "Four dozen Ukrainian soldiers headed back to Dnipropetrovsk from Slaviansk. Some will stay".
It's called sarcasm.No it's not.
God this is my most informative post in history.
You don't say.
The story about a MANPADS shoot-down seems to be bogus, as the video seems lifted from this video showing jihadi rebels in Syria
Yep,Syria it is.Took me too long to find original video to redact.
Su-27 flyover,on the other hand,seems to be true.I'm even more interested in the troops giving up arms in exchange for bread. Those guys for sure read Sun-Tzu.
Why the other side didn't read it?
And has anybody noticed how this junta government just seems to be filled with "actors". PORTRAYING a real government. Funny that.
I can't help but think that someone intentionally sabotages whole campaign.
Which,in turn,leads to lowering army's morale,which leads to APCs in rebel's hands,which leads to even lower morale.Oh well.
Go 25th Airborne!
(this is a semi-elite unit stationed near Dnepropetrovsk.With no sympathy to the government like at all)
tanks
I really hate to nitpick,but those are not tanks.At least not in videos.
Those are either IFVs or APCs,depending on photo.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Something's come up.
There is a man named Boris Filatov,he's right-hand man of Dnepropetrovsk's governor.Mostly manages supression stuff.Stuff like Special Batallion "Dnepr",which requires anyone who joins to have a military speciality,and,what's more important,has near an order of magnitude better wages then normal police or military.More or less a private army,thousand strong.
He,of course,has a facebook page.
So,for the delectation of the tread,i present two quotes from the man.
First is from today,second is from month ago,translated as i am able.
I thinked a lot about this revolution.There is only one way to think of it-it's the revolution of the poor...Our russian-speaking brothers from Donbass!Lost,misguided...we have a proposition.
For every returned gun there is a reward.For assault rifle-1000$,for machine gun-1.500$,for grenade launcher-2000$.
For every green man who is a mercenary(implied russian mercs,but RAW PMCs also count)....10000$.For every government building transferred-200000$
Here's the second,and this is good.
This scum should be given promises, guarantees, and any concessions…And hang…We shall hang them later
WHAT.
THE.[CENSORED][CENSORED][BEEP]
Is that thing even human?
The junta's "Acting President" Turchinov announced the 25th airborne brigade, one of the two best units of Ukraine army,
will be disbanded for "cowardice" i.e. peacefully giving up vehicles to the Donbass resistance, suggesting they may also be prosecuted.
Interesting to see how the firings and threats of prosecution, and "defections" themself play out
in terms of army obedience to the junta's orders and overall cohesiveness as a force.
I focused on the mostly peaceful outcome of events in Kramatorsk the other day, but apparently it was not all without casualties,
dozens of people were shot and wounded, at least one killed while trying to block armored vehicles with their car. (vid)
American NPR reported that tanks even rolled over and crushed protestors' cars that were in their way.
Armed attack jets have been doing ultra low level flights buzzing protestors, as intimidation tactic.
Previously there was an incident @roadblock where junta troops and protestors were waiting peacefully,
where out of town Right Sector thugs started a shoot-out w/ several deaths, trying to frame locals for attack?
(apparently having brought an already dead body with them to 'plant', dressed in SBU uniform)
In Mariupol, which is south of Donetsk City on the coast of Azov Sea,
there was an incident with Donbass protestors shot by SBU, 3 dead, dozen wounded + others arrested,
although the context is unclear, there is some suggestion it was a staged provocation,
with "unknown" actors (Right Sector? Nat Guard? police?) starting attack prompting the SBU to fire upon the protestors?
The response from "Euromaidan" twitter was "FINALLY they [junta forces] are shooting to kill in Mariupol."
The junta is reported to have now moved more troops into Mariupol via helicopter, w/ sniper rifles and RPGs.
Local Donbass resistance had already been occupying other government buildings in the town.
For a dose of extra-bizarre, NATO posterboy Saakashvili has been in Kiev hob-nobbing with the junta,
Saakashvili said “Russia can’t give anyone anything good.” “Victory in Ukraine will put an end to the Putin regime."
What they see in him I am not sure, expertise in running a banana republic and launching losing wars vs. Russia?
It's scandalous he is in Ukraine, so close to Georgia, given prosecutors there want to question him over crimes.
The Georgian PM said inviting “such radicals” like Saakashvili as advisors “will bring disastrous results.”
“Having such people beside you at the time of crisis amounts to suicide,”
"Donetsk’s South-East Movement for Federalization has made a list of demands to the authorities in Kiev, reports Itar-Tass.
Following the results of its first session, the group demanded a constitutional reform aimed at the federalization of the country,
a pardon for anti-government protesters, a cancellation of the mobilization of forces, and an end to military operations in Ukraine.
The gathering was chaired by presidential candidate Oleg Tsaryov."
I heard that Presidential Candidate Tsarov is now wanted for sedition and hooliganism by the junta...
Aleksey Mozgovoy of anti-Kiev junta Lugansk Guard:
"Not a single politician, not a single [large-scale] businessman among us"
"The goal is not to have many republics as per Russian Civil War—but to unify Ukraine's Southeast."
Ultimately, it seems like the junta leaders will have a hard time calling off the operation and peacefully negotiating, because they were brought to power by radical nationalists, and those people are still running around, in fact having been threatening actions against government for not being aggressive enough vs. "Russians". Besides the issue of the regime being concerned for their own personal welfare, the situation is such that were they to stop the war vs. dissidents in SE that would not end the chaos and violence, it would just shift to different sectors.
expertise in running a banana republic and launching losing wars vs. Russia
Well,he HAS military experience against Russia.That's pretty rare thing this days.He may know useful something useful.
The problem is,Russia isn't invaded yet.It'far more effective to sabotage Ukraine's army operation by just...demonstrating that invasion can happen after any shooting incident.
In other news:
Three sides,neither of which is Ukraine,agreed to disagree on Ukrainian crisis.
Agreement is nominally not that bad,exept it can't possibly be fulfilled.Mainly disarmament point.
But,it wouldn'be ukrainian "government" if they didn't fail in some unexpected ways,so what passes for foreign minister declared that Ukraine will not stop"anti-terrorist operation"and remove army from affected regions (in russian).
Why is this important?Because it paints ukrainian government as "government".
In good news:looks like no-one has been shot today.
Official Statement
by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Donetsk People's Republic
Regarding the Position of the EU Foreign Affairs CouncilOn the 14th of April, the EU Foreign Affairs Council made an extensive statement on Ukraine that involves and infringes the sovereign rights of the Donetsk People Republic directly. In particular, the EU Council declared as follows:
"The European Union condemns actions undertaken by armed individuals in cities of Eastern Ukraine… attempts at destabilizing Ukraine must come to an end… The Council reiterates its strong support for Ukraine's unity, sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity… The EU calls on all parties to keep utmost restraint and commends the Ukrainian authorities for pursuing their law and order operations in a measured manner and encourages the government in Kyiv to contribute further to reducing tensions."
This statement of the EU Council for Foreign Affairs bears witness to the fact that the European countries intend to continue interfering with free self-determination of the people of Donbass and Novorossiya in case they have grounds for suspecting that the result of such free self-determination might interfere with the objectives of their "European policy", the policy of unrestrained military and political expansion of the EU and NATO to the East. What stands out in the statement is the actual support rendered by the EU to the instances of using military force against civilians by Kiev they dub cynically as "reducing tensions".
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Donetsk People's Republic reiterates that any determining of the ways to "finding a political solution" the EU calls for is impossible and useless without recognition of the existence of the Donetsk People's Republic on part of the EU countries as an actual fact and without participation of its representatives in the negotiations as a fully legitimate party. Any negotiations regarding the situation in the regions of Donbass and Novorossiya are possible only with the participation of our representatives and subject to the recognition of the right of the people of Donbass to make decisions regarding their own Constitution and their political future. We reiterate that any decisions and arrangements regarding the political future of Donbass made by third parties behind our back, without our participation and for the account of infringement of the sovereign rights of the Donetsk People's Republic are null and void and will not be implemented.
We cannot intervene with diplomats from major powers wasting their time and efforts in senseless negotiations regarding our fate and our future, but we are in a position to declare that the political future of Donbass, Novorossiya and the Donetsk People's Republic can and will only be determined by its people at elections being free from political leverage of the coup-makers who seized the power in the city of Kiev, under the defense of the armed part of the people, the People's Militia and the South East Liberation Army.
Any attempts at depriving peoples of their right to free choice of their political future, attempts at predetermining the limits and bounds of that choice on the people's behalf made on the part of the Kiev junta and its European masters are doomed to debacle. Any attempts the EU countries make to construct a "political stall" for the people of Donbass where that people is ought to stay according to the European officials, are futile and will be rebuffed by the people. The European officials who lost touch with reality will only fan popular protest in Donbass and Novorossiya, face radicalization of that protest and strengthening of the self-defense forces.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Donetsk People's Republic warns the EU that such an unfriendly and short-sighted policy will inevitably bring about a political fiasco of the European Union in the East, a complete loss of its authority and any influence to the east of its borders. The EU countries must repudiate lopsided support of their political clientele in Kiev and start extensive consolations with the representatives of Donbass and Novorossiya immediately.
This Official Statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Donetsk People's Republic has been made known to the representatives of:
- the United States Department of State,
- The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia,
- Mrs. C. Ashton, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy.E. Gubareva, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Donetsk People's Republic
Donetsk, the 17 of April, 2014
Putin admits that Russian troops were in Crimean destabilizing it
No he isn't.THe only thing he admits,is that 20k of navy personnel were "behind the backs"of SDF,not that they WERE SDF.
And 20k of Russian navy personnel in Crimea is hardly the news.Russian language is not THAT hard to translate....right?
Ridiculous.
The legitimately elected, non-impeached president of Ukraine REQUESTED Russia protect Ukraine's citizens from the junta's forces.
Which it did, preventing them from impeding Crimean citizens' civil rights with their illegally ordered forces.
Russia shared that information from the beginning, showing Yanukovych's letter at the UN.
Then Russia chose to recognize the result of the referendum, self determination being an international right,
and there no longer being any legitimate Constitutional Court in Ukraine to rule against the Crimean referendum, the junta having eviscerated it.
Which it did, preventing them from impeding Crimean citizens' civil rights with their illegally ordered forces.
My points is,Crimean campaign,at least legally,was the THREAT to use armed forces.To quote one russian admiral during said campaign "if anyone there fires even a slingshot...".
And most work has been done by SDF.Who knew that if anyone from other sidefires a slingshot-they are toast.
Other side knew it too.
Which is why campaign was more or less peaceful.
LIPMAN: And it turned out that with the vast majority, withholding was OK. And with slightly over half, even distorting was OK. So people were totally into this propaganda and, in a sense, asked to be lied to."
major Russian pollster recently asked people whether it would be acceptable for the news media to withhold information in the government's interest.
You do realize that's literally Kremlin-sponsored propaganda,right?
What is amazing about that?
The US government lies all the time, and people are OK with that, never any legal repurcussions when revealed, even when used to launch wars, and many people dislike characters like Snowden for being "unpatriotic". Sweden, supposedly "neutral" by legal stature, in fact has long cooperated with NATO, and when the actions were revealed, in essence that the government was lying all along, both the current party and the historically dominant Socialist party said they would do nothing different, no repurcussions for anybody involved breaking the law. Japan, vast widespread government lying and manipulation specifically re: nuclear industry, no repurcussions, largely apathetic public. Israel... no need to go into details. Non-transparency in 'national security' is par for course.
What does that have to do with Ukraine anyways? If you want to remain on-topic the Ukraine junta has lied non-stop, and none of their supporters seem concerned, they LAP IT UP: Faked/staged anti-Jewish leaflets allege to be made by the Donbass Resistance, their MinDef stating the 6(8?) APCs that "defected" had not actually defected but their secret operation would be revealed in 3 hours... nothing happened. They make claims about the model of automatic rifles being proof of Russian forces when they are export model NOT used by Russia in the first place, they make similar claims about the Resistance's RPGs when the pics in question do NOT have the signature quality of said Russian RPGs (small secondary barrel/munition to spoof active protection). No lie is cheap enough!
I think he implied that i watch too much Kremlin-sponsored propaganda.
Problem is,i don't own a TV.And my newspapers are from 90s.
No lie is cheap enough!
You forgot "russian""leutenant-colonel" leading assault on a local police station.
As far as relevance to this thread and Russian actions, I don't see it,
as the letter requestion Russian protection was made public, Yanu confirmed it,
and the rest just hinges on basic matters of law, so nothing about witholding or distorting information comes into it.
Meanwhile NATO basically withholds or distorts info, refusing to acknowledge facts.
To their credit, the Western public doesn't seem to be strongly acceding to NATO agitprop on Ukraine.
I was going to say maybe it's just aren't sure if Ukraine isn't really a Pacific Island atoll,
but knowledge of Ukraine's actual position was actually correlated to NOT supporting sanctions or war responses.
So I guess the western public is happy to be told lies as long as they are too ignorant to perceive them.
You forgot "russian""leutenant-colonel" leading assault on a local police station.
I bet it was a damned Cossack too, trying to steal Zaporizia from Galicia.
Seriously, mainstream NATO media journalists have suggested the term "Novo Rossiya" was an invention of the Donbass resistance.
Seriously, mainstream NATO media journalists have suggested the term "Novo Rossiya" was an invention of the Donbass resistance.
WHAT?!?!?
And of course, the Junta just agreed in 4-way talks not to use forces against the SE Resistance.
Shorty after their "Acting Foreign Minister" Deshchytsa declares the anti-terrorist operation will continue.
Is it a lie if nobody could have believed it in the first place? - Ancient Galician Koan
The parties of the Junta of course agreed to the power sharing/transition peace agreement with Yanukovych, backed by the EU.
Lie much? Were their backers disturbed at that move?
Remember JUNTA DOES NOT LIE: Ukraine's troops shoot & wound one, roadblocks on fire in Kramatorsk over night
re: Novo Rossiya, I was following a twitter exchange of Western MSM journo and a pro-Russian guy, the MSM guy made exactly such a ridiculous claim only to be schooled on the subject... But it exactly fits with MSM coverage, which nowhere I have seen has explained the historical provenance of the term Novo Rossiya the Resistance is using or it's role in "formation" of perpetually indivisable Ukrainian state by (who else) the evil USSR.
EDIT: Here is the Twitter, and I stand corrected, he was claiming that a fringe Russian academic was making up the term, not the Resistance per se, though since they used the term as well the difference is minimal.
Obama wins Academy Award: "We don't have boots on the ground"
Clinton wins Academy Award: "We are only striking military targets in Serbia".
EDIT: OK, let's stay on topic though...
Questions to Putin:
Viewer: "I leased my car from [Oligarch Kolomoisky's] PrivatBank that left Crimea. What should I do?"
Putin: "Enjoy the ride."
:-)
Ridiculous.
The legitimately elected, non-impeached president of Ukraine REQUESTED Russia protect Ukraine's citizens from the junta's forces.
Which it did, preventing them from impeding Crimean citizens' civil rights with their illegally ordered forces.
Russia shared that information from the beginning, showing Yanukovych's letter at the UN.
Then Russia chose to recognize the result of the referendum, self determination being an international right,
and there no longer being any legitimate Constitutional Court in Ukraine to rule against the Crimean referendum, the junta having eviscerated it.
Orwell would have loved your justification for Russia slowly dismembering a neighbouring sovereign state.
Tell me, would Putin have done this is the former Ukrainian president hadn't abandoned his office? That the rights of Russian speakers who had apparently been quite happy up until his departure had suddenly been affected so severely in the intervening few weeks that Russia felt compelled to act?
Why does the departure of a pro-Russian president and his replacement by a pro-western government cause such a supposed rapid deterioration in conditions for Russians in the Ukraine? Why didn't it happen during the period of the Orange Revolution or any other time since the collapse of the Soviet Union? Why is it only now that Putin feels the need to act?
Try this hypothetical.... a random minority ethnic group in Russia decides it wants to hold a referendum on self-determination, citing unfair treatment by the Russian majority (insert whatever variations of the dodgy reasons the Russians in the Ukraine/Crimea have been spouting you can think of). Now, just for fun, let's place that random ethnic group on the borders of Russia where the ethnic majority of the neighbouring country is the same as theirs.
Do you think Putin would be such a upstanding fan of democracy to support that ethnic group's requests? Now what if the neighbouring country said it was concerned by the way its fellows were being treated in Russia and threatened military action? Or allowed "volunteers" to cross the border and take action? Or actually sent its troops over the border with insignia removed from their uniforms? And maybe because that country's military want to obfuscate things a bit more, they might even issue these troops, who aren't really their troops apparently, with non standard issue weapons......
Would you so stridently support that ethnic group's intentions? Or the actions of the neighbouring country? Or is it just a case of Russia is big and powerful and can do whatever it wants, make up whatever justifications it wants, and the rest of the world just has to suck it up?
pro-Russian president
Where did you get that idea?
Lukashenko,let alone Yanukovich,isn't a pro-russian president.
Do you think Putin would be such a upstanding fan of democracy to support that ethnic group's requests? Now what if the neighbouring country said it was concerned by the way...
Yep.AFTER supressing separatists.Chechen Republic,anyone?
And exactly the same thing will happen in US,if,say,Texas tries to do the same.What's your point,exactly?
big and powerful and can do whatever it wants, make up whatever justifications it wants, and the rest of the world just has to suck it up?
This applies to ANY Great Power and has been since time immemorial.
Difference,as i said before,is collateral damage.US and EU-sponsored coup effectively destroyed Ukraine and turned it into a failed state.
Crimean reunification went mostly peaceful and quality of life on the island will be vastly improved within a few months,because mad dollarz.
There are no good guys,but Russia's clearly a lesser evil.
Orwell would have loved your justification for Russia slowly dismembering a neighbouring sovereign state.
I don't know if you've missed it, but the whole world is getting dismembered as states by various super-states, whether it's getting a puppet regime from America or being eaten by the EU.
Why does the departure of a pro-Russian president and his replacement by a pro-western government cause such a supposed rapid deterioration in conditions for Russians in the Ukraine?
Because it's a government of neo-nazis and various others who hate ethnic russians. See Tymoshenko and Tyahnybok.
When the prime minister says they want to perform a major ethnic cleansing using nuclear weapons, yeah, that's a pretty good reason to act.
Try this hypothetical.... a random minority ethnic group in Russia decides it wants to hold a referendum on self-determination, citing unfair treatment by the Russian majority (insert whatever variations of the dodgy reasons the Russians in the Ukraine/Crimea have been spouting you can think of). Now, just for fun, let's place that random ethnic group on the borders of Russia where the ethnic majority of the neighbouring country is the same as theirs.
Do you think Putin would be such a upstanding fan of democracy to support that ethnic group's requests?
Of course not, and neither would about any other country on earth either. Putin doesn't care about democracy, but that doesn't make the intervention in Crimea less justified by default. Ideology is less relevant than actions and circumstances.
Or is it just a case of Russia is big and powerful and can do whatever it wants, make up whatever justifications it wants, and the rest of the world just has to suck it up?
For small eastern european and asian countries? Sure. About the same situation the whole world has with the US. But, I do support any regions self-determination, and it seems that Crimea has been quite satisfied with what's happened, under the circumstances. At least compared to being governed by a neonazi junta where the prime minister has expressed intent to kill of eight million of them.
But I mean... With your quote... That's the whole reason there was a coup in the first place, a big and powerful nation promoting a neonazi junta to chase away the elected president.
And while I abhor Putin and russian nationalism and russian politics in general (why wouldn't I - I'm QTBLG and a syndicalist), I must agree with Vlad in this specific circumstance. Between 1. instituting a neo-nazi junta, driving away the elected president, creating an extreme police state (or rather military state now it seems) and ruining the country, and 2. (for selfish reasons) sending troops to support a part of the country that wants to join with you, the neonazi coup seems on a whole different level of evil.
When the prime minister
Thank god she's not.Just an ex-con ATM.Her words literally has no weight.
I am also pretty sure that ex-cons can't run for presidency,but maybe that's a mistake.sending troops to support a part of the country that wants to join with you
Or use troops that are already there.
Or THREAT to use troops that are already there.Hmm.Actually,at the very least using blockships was NOT the SDF operation.
It required veeeery specific skills,and access to the fleet reserve.
Ridiculous.
The legitimately elected, non-impeached president of Ukraine REQUESTED Russia protect Ukraine's citizens from the junta's forces..
According to the Ukraine constitution he cannot authorize foreign intervention on his own power.
What's your point,exactly?
That you seem to think Russia's actions are justified when if they situation were reversed you would;t think such action was justified.