Sajan and Blessings


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion


I posted this in the FAQ thread and it was deemed unworthy so I'll post it here.

To my understanding, any unarmed combat check is a STR check. Sajan's power allows you to replace the STR die with the DEX die, but it does not change the TYPE of check. Therefore, the Blessing that adds 2 dice to a DEX Combat check should NOT work, correct?

Furthermore, the Blessing that adds 2 STR dice to a Combat check should add 2d6 which get automatically converted into 2d10, correct?

However, what about Blessing of Lamashtu? That adds 2 dice to any check to defeat a monster. Does that add 2d6 or 2d10?

And since it is a STR check at heart, this is why he starts with the Amulet of Fists, right?

I can foresee these questions coming up in my group as one of them chose Sajan.


The Blessings of Lamashtu adds 2d10 to Sajan's unarmed combat check in which he used his power to use his dex die for strength.


Yes, just waiting for an official word on this, but I've been playing that the dex blessing does not give the extra die. I think the strength blessing does and the the amulet works too. So with the blessing of gorum and amulet, you get 3 d10 + d4

We'll see what the developers say.

Lamashtu just adds dice to the main die you are using, so it would be d10.

Liberty's Edge

If you use a Ranged weapon with Sajan (like a Shortbow for example), he can stiil use his multiple Blessings plus recharge power right? So if he plays 2 Blessing with and reveal a Shortbow, then he gets 3d10+1d6, I am correct?


Sajan can play any number of Blessings on HIS combat check. So, Myriade, you are correct.


I think I avoided most of this confusion, maybe by not thinking about it too much. The way I interpreted Sajan's power was that, when unarmed, he essentially had a d10 for strength. Yes, he actually didn't. But, his power let him replace his strength with dexterity. The power of his martial arts. This meant that cards that were written for everyone, adding to the strength combat check, applied to Sajan, with his d10 "dexterity strength"...so long as he was unarmed....so obviously does not apply to weapons that wanted strength-melee. Made sense in my mind. He is not a samurai warrior with a sword, he is a monk with his fists. Shrug. Maybe I just think of things in my own way.


Mike Riley 302 wrote:
Sajan can play any number of Blessings on HIS combat check. So, Myriade, you are correct.

Hmmmmm... I'm still a little confused on Sajan's "Play any number of blessings on a combat check" card.

So let's say I have several Blessing of the Gods cards in my hand and I am fighting a Scout monster.

I'm unarmed so I use my Dex d10+2 for starters. I then discard a Blessing of the Gods for an additional d10 (which I get to recharge instead of discard). I did not play a SECOND Blessing of the Gods card from my hand because pg. 15 of the rule book says, "Each Player may play only one of each type of boon on a single check."

Thus, my final combat roll on the Scout was 2d10+2 and not 3d10+2. Did I do that wrong?

Sometimes Sajan has 2-3 Blessing of the Gods cards in his hand at a given time. If I get to pile all those blessings on combat rolls and always recharge them, Sajan seems unbeatable.

Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for the wisdom +2,

Ben
BensRPGPile.com


I think, if you want to use his weaponless Power, you change the standart Combat Check Skill from Str to Dex and so, you can only use Cards that could modify Dex or cards that add dice without a specified Skill like Bessing of God.


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Cheez wrote:
Mike Riley 302 wrote:
Sajan can play any number of Blessings on HIS combat check. So, Myriade, you are correct.

Hmmmmm... I'm still a little confused on Sajan's "Play any number of blessings on a combat check" card.

So let's say I have several Blessing of the Gods cards in my hand and I am fighting a Scout monster.

I'm unarmed so I use my Dex d10+2 for starters. I then discard a Blessing of the Gods for an additional d10 (which I get to recharge instead of discard). I did not play a SECOND Blessing of the Gods card from my hand because pg. 15 of the rule book says, "Each Player may play only one of each type of boon on a single check."

Thus, my final combat roll on the Scout was 2d10+2 and not 3d10+2. Did I do that wrong?

Sometimes Sajan has 2-3 Blessing of the Gods cards in his hand at a given time. If I get to pile all those blessings on combat rolls and always recharge them, Sajan seems unbeatable.

Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for the wisdom +2,

Ben
BensRPGPile.com

There is a "golden rule" which means that the rulebook is just the starting point for what you can and cannot do. This is true of most card games with varied cards that do interesting things.

Rulebook page 2 wrote:

THE GOLDEN RULE

If a card and this rulebook are ever in conflict, the card should be considered correct. If cards conflict with one another, then Adventure Path cards overrule adventures, adventures overrule scenarios, scenarios overrule locations, locations overrule characters, and characters overrule other card types. Despite this hierarchy, if one card tells that you cannot do something and another card tells you that you can, comply with the card that tells you that you cannot.

This means that Sajan can play any number of blessings on his combat check and recharges them all. He's only marginally less tough than Chuck Norris.


Cheez wrote:
Mike Riley 302 wrote:
Sajan can play any number of Blessings on HIS combat check. So, Myriade, you are correct.

Hmmmmm... I'm still a little confused on Sajan's "Play any number of blessings on a combat check" card.

...

Thus, my final combat roll on the Scout was 2d10+2 and not 3d10+2. Did I do that wrong?

Sometimes Sajan has 2-3 Blessing of the Gods cards in his hand at a given time. If I get to pile all those blessings on combat rolls and always recharge them, Sajan seems unbeatable.

It would be 3d10+2.

He is pretty much unbeatable for any given fight when he has a handful of blessings. HOWEVER, blessings are used for more than just fighting. If he uses all his blessings in one fight then he can't explore again (most likely) thus consuming more turn cards. If he uses his blessings for other checks (or to help other players) then he won't have them available for his own turn... and he is almost helpless without blessings.

So... with great power comes great restrictions. I found him great for solo play and terrible for group play. It really bothered me that I couldn't feed blessings to other players when they needed help because, if I did, I would be unable to do anything on my own turn.

Also, there is a villain who gets tougher to defeat for each blessing used. Not a good match up for a character who relies on blessings.


How can you recharge Blessing of the Gods,When its not rechargable,When Sajan power state,you may use Blessing on combat checks and regharge them.Wouldnt that mean you can only use Blessing that are able to recharge.Futher making you more aware of when to use Blessing of the Gods.

Liberty's Edge

No, Sajan can recharge all the Blessings


The golden rule - the character card over-rules the card itself and lets you recharge the blessings used (no matter what type they are).

Silver Crusade

Mestrahd wrote:

I posted this in the FAQ thread and it was deemed unworthy so I'll post it here.

To my understanding, any unarmed combat check is a STR check. Sajan's power allows you to replace the STR die with the DEX die, but it does not change the TYPE of check. Therefore, the Blessing that adds 2 dice to a DEX Combat check should NOT work, correct?

Furthermore, the Blessing that adds 2 STR dice to a Combat check should add 2d6 which get automatically converted into 2d10, correct?

However, what about Blessing of Lamashtu? That adds 2 dice to any check to defeat a monster. Does that add 2d6 or 2d10?

And since it is a STR check at heart, this is why he starts with the Amulet of Fists, right?

I can foresee these questions coming up in my group as one of them chose Sajan.

I just realized this exact situation last night while playing. I had aquired the Dex based blessing (forget the name) and Lamashtu during other adventures figuring they would be great for Sajan.

Then, last night the stregth based blessing was on top of the discard pile while I was fighting a monster and I had a BoTG in had. It was at that moment that I realized that I had (I think) been playing the Dex blessing incorrectly. I believe Sajan is still using his stregth and not his Dex when he uses his power.

Love to have an official ruling on this, because it would make too much sense if he had two blessing that where totally awesome for him this early in the game.


From Amulet of might fists thread

Tracker1 wrote:
Not an Amulet of Fists question, but emerged from the topic.

If Sajan uses his power to roll dex die rather than str. Which Blessing is the correct one to play Gorum or Erastril?

Thanks, and I hope this is also covered in the Faq, i've seen it come up in multiple threads at BGG forums as well.

Vic replied:

Yeah, we'll have that in the FAQ. "Dexterity-based check" means "a check using your Dexterity die," so he wants Erastil, not Gorum.

Silver Crusade

Tracker1 wrote:

From Amulet of might fists thread

Tracker1 wrote:
Not an Amulet of Fists question, but emerged from the topic.

If Sajan uses his power to roll dex die rather than str. Which Blessing is the correct one to play Gorum or Erastril?

Thanks, and I hope this is also covered in the Faq, i've seen it come up in multiple threads at BGG forums as well.

Vic replied:

Yeah, we'll have that in the FAQ. "Dexterity-based check" means "a check using your Dexterity die," so he wants Erastil, not Gorum.

Tracker1 - so based on what you found you changed your assumption. I think this is very muddy water, even with Vic's answer. I can't give an example right now, but I swear there have been situations where a converted skill die was still that skill - I thought this was simple mistake, but obviously not.

Silver Crusade

Also, let's take Seoni. Her power specifically says she gets to discard a card to use her Arcane for her attack. So it is her Arcane, nothing is converted.

Now Lini is discard a card to change the strength die to the divine die (d10).

Why word these powers different if there wasn't a different effect?


As far as I understand it (and I've spent some time on these forums honing this particular part of my PACG qualifications!)...

When Seoni uses her power the check becomes an Arcane combat check (plus Fire, Magic, Spell and other fun traits). You cannot play anything that buffs STR or DEX to help her (Lamashtu still works, though).

When Lini uses her bear power it doesn't say anything about DIVINE... The power is "You may discard a card to roll d10 instead of your Strength or Dexterity die for any check". The check is still a Strength or Dexterity check. She's just using 1d10 instead of 1d4 or 1d6.

When Sajan uses his power his attack becomes a DEX based combat attack. It is NOT a strength check any more and it is NOT a melee attack.

Every check has ONE base skill. If you change the eligible skills you still have to pick one.

To muddy the waters a bit, there are a couple of notes!

1. Some skills have a parent (e.g. If Valeros does a Melee check it's also a Strength check).

2. Some checks are combat checks and some are not. This is based on what's printed on the bane card (e.g. if you're trying to defeat a "Combat 9" check it's a combat check that causes combat damage when you fail. If you try to defeat a Siren's "Wisdom 9" check then it's NOT combat and you cannot use combat buffs nor combat damage reduction boons)

I hope that's helpful!

Oh, and read What is a die? as well!


When I was trying to figure out what blessing Sajan should use, i thought it might be Gorum until corrected, so now I see why it's the dex one. Problem solved, and it makes sense.

As for Seoni, I'm not sure how your drawing a parallel. She discards a card to use her arcane die or for a combat Check. If she uses the power, she could play any card that will boost an arcane die or combat check, BotG will add another arcane die, and BoPharasma will add 2 since it counts as a spell.

For Lini, there is nothing on her character card that suggests she changes her strength to divine. She discards a card to change her strength or dexterity to a d10. It is still strength of Dex, Her wisdom die has nothing to do with this power.

Silver Crusade

Wow, you all had me scared for a minute there. I've been playing that Sajan uses dex for combat, so Blessing of Erastil is the one for him to collect. All this talk about it still being a strength check made me think I was doing it wrong, but apparently, I wasn't. Though the wording change to the Amulet of Mighty Fists was definitely necessary.

And mickcatron, as h4ppy pointed out, Lini's power doesn't let her use divine power in place of strength or dexterity. She's just turning into an animal that has higher natural strength or dexterity than a gnome.

Silver Crusade

You guys are right, I forgot that the power doesn't mention Divine it just so happens that the d10 is the divien die for her.

Thanks for the help. Still a little confusing, but I think I get it. Even if I don't, at least I know what to do :)


Sorry to Necro this thread but I see the blessing of Lamashtu has been mentioned. The Monk can't recharge this blessing with his power.

Recharge means "Instead of Discard, Bury, or Banish place it on the bottom of your deck"

BUT

The Monks says "Recharge them instead of Discard" as opposed to saying "Recharge them" The words instead of discarding is specific, and in the FAQ they cite "If the top card of the blessings deck matches this card, recharge this card instead of discarding it." saying this does not apply to Lamashtu because of instead of discarding it so therefor the monks power does not recharge that particular blessing just the same.

So the Monk needs to count on Erastil for two dice from one blessing ONLY as opposed to using BOTH of them.

Honestly this does not hurt the Monk too much. He is way overpowered passed Adventure 2 anyway.

Sovereign Court

Does it specify to recharge them instead of discarding on Sajan's card? I'm not near the game right now and can't check, but I thought his card simply says he can recharge any blessings played (not discarded, just played) using that power?


It does say recharge instead of discard:

Sajan wrote:
You may play any number of blessings on your combat check; recharge them instead of discarding them.

So he can play a lot of Blessings of Lamashtu on his combat check but he'd still have to bury them if that was the power he chose from the blessing.

Also, if you have the Blessing of Zarongel promo card and take Sajan's fire trait upgrade to his other power, then Blessing of Zarongel will add 2 dice to his combat check when using his power.

Sovereign Court

Huh, I never noticed that. I don't think I've ever dropped Lamashtu more than once or twice so it hasn't changed much, but good to know. I want Zarongel so bad, on my Flaming Mace Kyra (and now with Flaming Ranseur!!!) and on my magical, fiery fisted Sajan. But it seems to, without fail, end up in the blessings deck. With Sajan, the Seoni in our group would probably have an aneurysm when I don't pass the blessing after the scenario lol.

Speaking of blessings, I didn't even notice while looking through the new adventure cards, only when I was mixing them in --- no blessings this time, eh? Sajan no like you.

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