The Worldwound Incursion (GM Reference)


Wrath of the Righteous

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Dark Archive

Let's start this off.

Maybe we can get this stickied later?

FAXON p. 37 has no class level for his witch class


Can I get some clarity on the Terendelev's scales? It states each of them grants a different power to the one who carries them. Does this mean that the power it gives is tied to the player or the scale? The way it's written it could go either way, and it doesn't say if it's uses per day total or per person if they're passing them around. It also says there should be enough for each party member but only gives 4 abilities which confuses things further.

Silver Crusade

I would suggest the following..

Power tied to the scale as is uses per day. add one scale per player, figure out which scale is best for each or have them roll 1d4 to determine power.


I think the intention is that there is at least one of each since there is no table for random generation. The problem is that the description implies that they resonate with the characters as reminders of the dragon they came from. I just need to know what happens if my players try trading them back and forth. Do they always give that character the same ability no matter which scale, or does each individual scale grant it's own different ability?

Silver Crusade

That would be insanely overpowered to let players keep stacking the bonuses passing them back and forth until everyone got all 4 buffs.

I havnt picked up my hard copy yet so i havnt read yet what exactly your talking about. BUT how hard is it to make a d4 chart (1=A, 2=B, 3=c, 4=d) Or just use rule 1 of DMing and "DM Fiat"

Its your world RogueShadow3, your path.. decide for yourself.

No clue how big your party is.. but mine is 10 players if everyone shows up.. I have to basically rewrite the whole path when i run one.. So to just make it simple and easy. I would again suggest.

Powers do not work when someone not bound to the scale (resonate with the character as a reminder of the dragon they came from.)
Each Heroes scale grants 1 of the powers, to them and them alone.
if you have more then 5 players use the d4 method or just pick someone for each player.


They all come from the same dragon and mimic the dragon's racial abilities. I have 5 players so not as bad as yours. The question comes in if scale A gives me ability A and scale B gives you ability B if we switch scales will scale B still give me ability A? The entry for the item states "Each of Terendelev's scales grants a different power to the person who carries them. The powers granted do not function at all if more than one scale is carried. The powers of the four scales are listed below—any nonevil creature that handles a scale immediately understands its use." In the actual path treasure section it states that each posseses a unique ability but there should be one for each PC and refers to the item section of the book, which lists the 4 abilities and the confusing description. These are also minor artifacts that the PCs are getting at the very start of the adventure.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hm, does the adventure scale in any way with those minor artifacts / scales if you have more than four players or are those additional players left completely in the cold?

Dark Archive

chopswil wrote:

Let's start this off.

Maybe we can get this stickied later?

FAXON p. 37 has no class level for his witch class

looks like it is witch 5

also Init is incorrect, forgot +4 due to scorpion familiar

Dark Archive

why doesn't Irabeth Tirabade Immune fear due to Aura of Courage?


On page 31-32, The librarians in the Blackwing ruins are said to be human experts 3 in the text but are cautious mages (i.e. NPC codex wizard 1) in the stats. Personally, I would leave the named one (Fenna) as a wizard and make the other 4 experts.


You know, there's a couple instances where they say there's two or three of a foe (like three mad knights) and then the writeup has double that number. I view it more as you see the initial two or three, but there's more lurking around that pile in.


Tangent101 wrote:
You know, there's a couple instances where they say there's two or three of a foe (like three mad knights) and then the writeup has double that number. I view it more as you see the initial two or three, but there's more lurking around that pile in.

That's a fair way to run it. Though I think it's an editing oversight and that it should be six.

I'm guessing that an editor went back through the encounters and beefed up some numbers to get this AP volume to end at Level 6, and overlooked this.

Btw, can a moderator change the title of this thread so as to reflect the title of the volume, and not of the AP itself?


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Does anyone have other ideas of how to run the very first scene? I see the AP's reasoning for not getting the PCs tangled up in a high-powered battle, but I'm concerned about my players being underwhelmed by a long textbox of "what you remember."

I want to frontload some of the mythic feel of this campaign in the first scene, while SOMEHOW not endangering the PCs themselves too much. Perhaps they are part of a large crowd, and hundreds suddenly are incinerated in one instant by one of the demons? Perhaps the large fissure opens in the ground, and PCs have the task of trying to drag people out of it, while the main fighting goes on elsewhere? Maybe even have the PCs team up with Anevia while doing this?

I also want to underscore the tragedy of the fall of Kenabres a bit more. I love the intro to Rise of the Runelords because you get a feel of some of the personality of the town before all hell breaks loose, and I'd like to have a little of that here. Maybe Hulrun can lead the day's ceremonies, so that it's all the more shocking when he shows up again later. Some visuals of the majesty and power of Kenabres' crusaders. Also, perhaps work with my players on the backstories, including having connections to Kenabres and its organizations, etc., to have them represented in the opening scene somehow. And of course, when the PCs finally return to the surface (punctuated by large rumbles that rattle the underground caverns and cause rocks to fall, even new cave-ins), they see utter devastation. I will also key some of the encounters and locations to instead be things tied to their backgrounds (a home, a wizard's guild, etc.).

I think my young players will have a blast playing this AP, which I'm billing as "Diablo" on tabletop (I know for some of you, this might be a turnoff, but not for my kids!), the "Mythic" campaign, and the "WAR!" campaign. This AP definitely is high-powered, and turns up the action and "epicness" several notches. First impressions are lasting ones, and that's what I want when I run this AP.


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Klokk wrote:

That would be insanely overpowered to let players keep stacking the bonuses passing them back and forth until everyone got all 4 buffs.

I havnt picked up my hard copy yet so i havnt read yet what exactly your talking about. BUT how hard is it to make a d4 chart (1=A, 2=B, 3=c, 4=d) Or just use rule 1 of DMing and "DM Fiat"

Its your world RogueShadow3, your path.. decide for yourself.

No clue how big your party is.. but mine is 10 players if everyone shows up.. I have to basically rewrite the whole path when i run one.. So to just make it simple and easy. I would again suggest.

Powers do not work when someone not bound to the scale (resonate with the character as a reminder of the dragon they came from.)
Each Heroes scale grants 1 of the powers, to them and them alone.

if you have more then 5 players use the d4 method or just pick someone for each player.

Wow, 10 players! Especially given that this campaign is mythic, I'm wondering how you expect to handle the complexity of combat in the higher levels.

I'm definitely for tying each scale to one PC -- it will give more of a personal connection to Terendelev. You probably don't want to randomly assign the scale boons -- for example, one has an align weapon ability, which would not be as useful to pure casters. Having the boons be tailored also underscores the fact that Terendelev had a sense of the PCs' future destinies.


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chopswil wrote:
FAXON p. 37 has no class level for his witch class

if you look at his stat block, next to HP it says he has 5d6 hit die, so he is level 5


What sorts of random encounters are there under the city itself? The text suggests there are encounters (as you don't suffer random encounters for eight hours after

Spoiler:
you sanctify the Temple of Torag where the heucava is located
but the chart given for encounters is for above-ground encounters. Was there supposed to be encounters and it was taken out? Or was a separate chart for the caverns left out?


Tangent101 wrote:
What sorts of random encounters are there under the city itself? The text suggests there are encounters (as you don't suffer random encounters for eight hours after ** spoiler omitted ** but the chart given for encounters is for above-ground encounters. Was there supposed to be encounters and it was taken out? Or was a separate chart for the caverns left out?

Yeah, that was puzzling to me because the text is very specific about how much time it takes to travel from point A to point B.

But I just found what you need: page 81. There is a random encounters chart there and there is a 35% chance of a random encounter for every hour spent below the city.

(I suppose this precludes resting, but I think there are healing potions and what-not in the underground areas.)


Thanks! :)

Silver Crusade

The Rot Grub wrote:


]

Wow, 10 players! Especially given that this campaign is mythic, I'm wondering how you expect to handle the complexity of combat in the higher levelss

I'm definitely for tying each scale to one PC -- it will give more of a personal connection to Terendelev. You probably don't want to randomly assign the scale boons -- for example, one has an align weapon ability, which would not be as useful to pure casters. Having the boons be tailored also underscores the fact that Terendelev had a sense of the PCs' future destinies.

Its going to be interesting that is for certain. OF the 11 players, 6 are comfortable with 3x rules to DM. 4 only dm 1/2e and 1 dont dm at all. Between us we have over 200 years or so of DMing/playing :D So i can make any of those 6 help me DM the larger mass combat things. I kinda tweek the power level of pcs by default to a 30pt buy to give better stats to speed up combat to make thing flow quicker with so many people.

Far as Terendelev, whos to say that Terendelev has no sense of humor. Giving the pure wizard the align weapon, may let him align his rifle to being good and blasting some demons with to save his spells for the tougher demons.


I don't see why additional scales can't have additional powers. It looks like each scale allows a 2nd-level spell to be used thrice a day. So have a scale cast Aid three times a day... or Grace thrice daily, or Find Traps (which may be useful if the group lacks a thief). Or even Eagle's Splendor thrice daily, and give it to the low-charisma character! ;)

Silver Crusade

your only limited as much as your creativity hinders you. :D And read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth it may be handy :D

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
The Rot Grub wrote:
Does anyone have other ideas of how to run the very first scene?

This might not be exactly what you're looking for, but my first inclination (if I were to run this) was to do it as presented because its a somewhat unexpected/atypical intro. To further this unexpected feeling, I would ask the players (prior to introducing their characters), to shut off their phones/tablets/laptops. At the point of the dramatic pause, have someone (like a spouse) shut off the lights, then launch in to the whole trapped underground thing with the players literally in the dark.

-Skeld

Liberty's Edge

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The Rot Grub wrote:
Does anyone have other ideas of how to run the very first scene?

I am thinking I am going to begin play prior to the attack. I want to let the players become familiar with Kenabres as it appears in the supplemental article before moving into the ceremony and the attack.

I think this will grant more resonance to the destruction of the city, give the opportunity to really establish the lore and villains, and set a precedent of roleplaying.

I am also thinking it might be fun to write up a We Be Goblins! type intro where the party plays Kelid characters during the fall of Sarkoris. Threshold falls, demons rise.... 100 Years Later.


I started another thread on this, hoping some people might come up with mini side-adventures for PCs. Mostly we've chatted about how it's a viable idea instead. ^^;;


I have a ranger signing up to play with me and i just KNOW that i will be the one who has to help him pickfavored terrian and enemies. I'l simply point him toward the FE in the player guide but what favored terrians do you think i should recomend to him? (other than abyss of course [that will never come in handy])


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Apart from the abyss - I'd say these for favored terrains:
Desert (sand and wastelands)
Underground (caves and dungeons)
Urban (buildings, streets, and sewers)


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on RPing right after the fall with the NPCs. I'm concerened that my players will mostly ignore the NPCs (thus missing about 1/2 the xp in part 1) or will only really interact with them if I spell out "YOU MUST TALK TO THEM TO GET XP!!!" and that might make them feel a little railroaded. Any thougths on a more organic way to really introduce the NPCs?


@j b 200

Did you consider having one of the NPCs be tied to the traits/back story of at least one of the players. I think encouraging the players to have background basing them Mendev, not necessarily in Kenebraes would be ideal. I would go so far as offering a free third trait for Mendev regional or Wrath of Righteous campaign trait.

Shadow Lodge

For religious characters, especially Clerics, they might receive an actual vision leading them there. That could work really well for later parts of the AP. Alternatively, they might feel the call to travel there to truly cure the dragon of it's madness, (and if I ever play, I plan on Rezing her personally). They might also be interested in joining the Rift Wardens. Paladins really shouldn't need much. Druids might learn of the ancient Druidic cults native to the area before the crusades and want to travel there to learn, passing through the city on the way and getting stuck as the AP begins. More martial characters might have been invited to join a patron seeking mercenaries (or even outright join the crusades), and traveling to the area for a job. Arcanists might be drawn to either learn more hands on about the different planes, to learn war-wizardry, or to join the Rift Wardens.

The way I'm kind of seeing it, it plays very well as a sort of survival horror game early on (as well as a dogs of war style game). I'm really strongly considering throwing in some Silent Hill like elements, and having the Abyss randomly start to bleed through. Throughout I might have a couple of scenes where the characters see people as monsters, and the two planes begin to bleed together, which I think might nudge the players to see the other (NPC) survivors as much more important.


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j b 200 wrote:
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on RPing right after the fall with the NPCs. I'm concerened that my players will mostly ignore the NPCs (thus missing about 1/2 the xp in part 1) or will only really interact with them if I spell out "YOU MUST TALK TO THEM TO GET XP!!!" and that might make them feel a little railroaded. Any thougths on a more organic way to really introduce the NPCs?

Well, maybe the NPCs can initiate things by introducing themselves -- this can be the occasion for the players introducing their PCs to each other as well. The rogue (I'm not remembering their names right now) will say she wants to get above-ground right away to find her wife. Once the PCs have proven themselves capable, the noble will offer a reward if they can escort him to his home. The mage should do something that shows he has considerable arcane power, and which adds an air of mystery to him that will make the players want to know more about him. The Riftwardens are an interesting organization and he can inject a lot of the history and lore about the fight against the Worldwound.

All these things should be clear hints to the players that XP comes with getting more involved with them...

Also, all the characters have an incentive to find out each others' strengths so that they can best work together.

While they travel between sections, you can inject anything vital that you missed from the first scene.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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chopswil wrote:
why doesn't Irabeth Tirabade Immune fear due to Aura of Courage?

That's a typo. She should have immunity to fear.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Reptilian wrote:
On page 31-32, The librarians in the Blackwing ruins are said to be human experts 3 in the text but are cautious mages (i.e. NPC codex wizard 1) in the stats. Personally, I would leave the named one (Fenna) as a wizard and make the other 4 experts.

The librarians were originally experts, but I changed them to mages to save some room on stat blocks and because it made more sense that Riftwarden Central would have some wizards there.

Change as you need, of course!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

RogueShadow3 wrote:
They all come from the same dragon and mimic the dragon's racial abilities. I have 5 players so not as bad as yours. The question comes in if scale A gives me ability A and scale B gives you ability B if we switch scales will scale B still give me ability A? The entry for the item states "Each of Terendelev's scales grants a different power to the person who carries them. The powers granted do not function at all if more than one scale is carried. The powers of the four scales are listed below—any nonevil creature that handles a scale immediately understands its use." In the actual path treasure section it states that each posseses a unique ability but there should be one for each PC and refers to the item section of the book, which lists the 4 abilities and the confusing description. These are also minor artifacts that the PCs are getting at the very start of the adventure.

The intent for these scales is that there should be 1 for every player character, and they were never really intended to stack. Each player should get one, and as mentioned, they actually STOP working if someone carries more than one.

We list 4 because we assume an AP has 4 players. If your group has fewer or more players, you should absolutely adjust the number of scales found so that each player gets one.

You can switch and trade them as you want, but only one works at a time.


I have the NPC survivors groaning in the rubble right after the fall. Should be enough to prompt the PCs to notice them.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tangent101 wrote:
You know, there's a couple instances where they say there's two or three of a foe (like three mad knights) and then the writeup has double that number. I view it more as you see the initial two or three, but there's more lurking around that pile in.

In cases like this, it's best to go with the actual numbers listed in the stat blocks.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Tangent101 wrote:
What sorts of random encounters are there under the city itself? The text suggests there are encounters (as you don't suffer random encounters for eight hours after ** spoiler omitted ** but the chart given for encounters is for above-ground encounters. Was there supposed to be encounters and it was taken out? Or was a separate chart for the caverns left out?

Originally we were going to include encounters for aboveground and below ground, but there was a miscommunication between myself and Adam and the below ground stuff got left off. For belowground encounters, feel free to use the following table I just whipped up:

d% Roll Encounter
01–15 Minor tremor/muted explosions (no combat, just flavor)
16–30 1 giant spider
31–50 1 giant fly
51–65 1 cave viper (see page 13 of the adventure)
66–80 1d4 giant cockroaches
81–90 1d3 mongrelmen scouts from Neathholm
91–95 1 cave lizard
96–98 Millorn out exploring, or if he's been defeated 1d3 darkmantles
99–100 1d4 cultists (see page 24)


BTW, James, could you change the name of the thread so it's specifically for this module? (Or I suppose you can create specific GM threads and then merge these into them...)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

j b 200 wrote:
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on RPing right after the fall with the NPCs. I'm concerened that my players will mostly ignore the NPCs (thus missing about 1/2 the xp in part 1) or will only really interact with them if I spell out "YOU MUST TALK TO THEM TO GET XP!!!" and that might make them feel a little railroaded. Any thougths on a more organic way to really introduce the NPCs?

The best way to get the PCs talking to the NPCs is the fact that the PCs might not have all the tools they need to handle their situation. Light is one big thing—if no PC can provide light, the NPCs may be the only real way they can see where they're going. The fact that the NPCs are all wounded or frightened should also play to any protective or good-aligned PCs as well. As the adventure progresses, we do try to provide scenes where these NPCs interact with the PCs and the situation as well.

Of course, if you know your group isn't all that interested in NPC allies, then it might be best to just let them fade into the background... but know that NPC allies and companions play a BIG role and comprise one of the large themes of this AP...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tangent101 wrote:
BTW, James, could you change the name of the thread so it's specifically for this module? (Or I suppose you can create specific GM threads and then merge these into them...)

I can't, alas. I don't have that power.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Joshua Goudreau wrote:
The Rot Grub wrote:
Does anyone have other ideas of how to run the very first scene?

I am thinking I am going to begin play prior to the attack. I want to let the players become familiar with Kenabres as it appears in the supplemental article before moving into the ceremony and the attack.

I think this will grant more resonance to the destruction of the city, give the opportunity to really establish the lore and villains, and set a precedent of roleplaying.

It would be fun to have the PC running around town, before the fall. Have them get some quest and then have the town fall.

Sovereign Court

My thoughts on this are to describe the nature of the festival, the martial contests and the large crowds of people. A bunch of my characters are related to each other, thanks to Child of the Crusade, so they already have a good reason to be in the same area.

I'll ask them about what sorts of things their characters want to see or buy, and talk about the sights a bit that morning, before launching into the adventure.

I'm going to run things as they happen, instead of flashbacks, and give each character at least one chance to do something worthwhile - push someone out of the way of a falling masonry block, heal a burn or injury, hold up a shield to stop an incoming missile, grab one of the NPCs and prevent them from being killed.

I"m hoping it will go well. :)


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
BTW, James, could you change the name of the thread so it's specifically for this module? (Or I suppose you can create specific GM threads and then merge these into them...)
I can't, alas. I don't have that power.

Behold, the powers of The Creative Director are limited! Certainly one of His herolds can help out here, though.


For the escalation at the Gray Garrison;

Spoiler:
Are the reinforcements split between the wardstone chamber and the rest of the garrison areas? The reason I ask, is the way it reads is that each escalation, more demons and cultists are specifically added to the chamber by Jeslyn, but it doesn't specify if this is pulled from the escalation troops on page 42 or if these troops are specific to the wardstone chamber are on top of these troops.


I'd think they're just added to the garrison area. Otherwise Jeslyn's encounter becomes too tough. Basically it's meant to encourage PCs to push through as they'll know they face reinforcements when the second assault has added encounters in cleared areas.


It says to add them where you want, although I agree depending on party size it's likely to make Jeslyn's encounter tougher than it needs to be. It could just be that she calls in more reinforcements between her and the entrance. Then again considering that the PCs don't HAVE to kill her and what happens if they complete the other half of the mission, you might be ok.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tangent101 wrote:
I'd think they're just added to the garrison area. Otherwise Jeslyn's encounter becomes too tough. Basically it's meant to encourage PCs to push through as they'll know they face reinforcements when the second assault has added encounters in cleared areas.

This works best.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So far the only real problem I've noticed in the module seems to be how to motivate players to take the effort to collect devotion points. The adventure is a bit schizophrenic in that regard, on one side putting a timer on storming the Gray Garrison, by making it explicit that Areelu Vorlesh may arrive soon but on the other hand requiring time-consuming tasks from them to get those devotion points.

I am planning to make it clear that the eye of something great is on them during their exploration of the garrison (maybe making it clear that it is Iomedae) and having Irabeth comment on how those wrongs should be righted, but I have some experience with how my group deals with time pressure scenarios. And that is by going into SWAT-team modus and rushing through rooms, which is anathema to the whole devotion point scenario.

Any ideas on how to best ease the pressure aspect of the last part of the module? Just not mentioning that the wardstone could be corrupted at any minute seems like the best idea so far, but that could have other unforeseen consequences.


The conversion from Devotion Points to boons doesn't happen until they go to sleep, so I'd let the players do the acts that grant Devotion Points after they deal with the babaus.


magnuskn wrote:

So far the only real problem I've noticed in the module seems to be how to motivate players to take the effort to collect devotion points. The adventure is a bit schizophrenic in that regard, on one side putting a timer on storming the Gray Garrison, by making it explicit that Areelu Vorlesh may arrive soon but on the other hand requiring time-consuming tasks from them to get those devotion points.

I am planning to make it clear that the eye of something great is on them during their exploration of the garrison (maybe making it clear that it is Iomedae) and having Irabeth comment on how those wrongs should be righted, but I have some experience with how my group deals with time pressure scenarios. And that is by going into SWAT-team modus and rushing through rooms, which is anathema to the whole devotion point scenario.

Any ideas on how to best ease the pressure aspect of the last part of the module? Just not mentioning that the wardstone could be corrupted at any minute seems like the best idea so far, but that could have other unforeseen consequences.

I haven't worked through it completely, but I've been entertaining a few ideas. One is using Irabeth, as you stated - having her comment on the disrespect to Iomedae and wishing to correct it. Also, if any of the players worship Iomedae, this might also serve as a catalyst as they may have a desire to restore her shrines.

Another idea is to use some discussion at the Defender's Heart, or some chance encounters throughout the city. For example, have them find some Crusaders righting and fixing broken shrines throughout the city, or have someone at the inn mention how they hope to reconsecrate all of the shrines/sacred sites of the gods in the hopes of reasserting their power or some such.

In this same vain, I was going to have the players encounter some priest/paladins performing last rights on some dead crusaders, and have the NPCs mention how important it is to give all Crusaders a proper burial. This, in the hopes that the players will then want to retrieve the dead bodies from the Garrison. This would be in addition to any connections I can give the PCs to the dead crusaders (such as being a dead family member).


What I find bizarre is you get a devotion point...

Spoiler:
for recovering the body of a traitor. Because one of the two bodies you recover that were being ridden by demons was in fact the traitor who bought Irabeth's sword and wanted to give it to the antipaladin who hates Irabeth's guts!
Personally I'd provide two Devotion points for recovering the city leader's body alone. But that's just me. ;)

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