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I believe I addressed the elan brutal disruptor TWF being "OP" and found that:
His average to hit was terrible, meaning his actual damage output was about half of what it might look like because he missed most of the time
The example character was extremely above the WBL estimates for his level
By that logic, a TWF sneak attacking rogue is the most powerful character ever. In actuality, a TWF rogue doesn't get to sneak attack all the time and his 3/4 bab means he misses a LOT of those attacks.
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Yo Dawg I could make a Sorc 4 Empreal Bloodline Cleric 3 Mystic Theaurge with a +6 Wisdom Headband, +2 Ceremonial Robes, +2 ring of deflection, +2 Amulet of NAt armor, a +2 mithril buckler, and several 2nd level pearls of power at level 7 and wreck everything my GM throws at me!
Take my DC 23 Hold Persons and my Huge AC bonus!
Ok that's enough of that.
Just got my brother to check out Path of War and now he's trying to incorporate the Martial Training feats into his Dread.
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Debt
Their caution was well justified - the door slammed shut and locked behind them. The drow cursed softly in a mix of elven and undercommon before the tiefling held a hand up.
"I smell brimstone," the sorcerer said softly, just before the erinyes appeared.
She was tall, with blood-red hair and warm blue eyes, and dressed strangely in smooth black pants, a red shirt, and a black jacket with red trim. A shield rode on her back, a sword and scabbard on her hip, and she smiled at the adventurers from beneath a soft cap such as a street waif might wear. The elf drew his sword. The halfling moaned in terror and ran back to the door.
The devil produced a pen from her pocket and a clipboard from thin air; she licked the tip of the pen and ruffled through the pages on the board, utterly unconcerned with the weapons pointed at her.
"I apologize for the inconvenience," she said at last, flashing the elf a winsome smile that made her heart-shaped face light up from within. "I'm afraid that I may have business with your companion there. Tell me - is that Hazzan vas Milor, a necromancer of some small renown?"
The halfling screamed in terror. "No I'm not! Tell her I'm not!"
"I'm afraid he is," the sorcerer interjected, his voice tinged with dark amusement. The erinyes sighed.
"Hazzan, it is my duty on the behalf of the Department of Mortal Relations and Mykael the Quartermaster to inform you that you are in violation of your infernal contract - specifically clause eighteen, sub-clause four, stipulating a minimum quota of actions furthering the causes of Hell per year. You were contacted..." she trailed off, flipping pages on her board, "eighteen months ago. You murdered the agent sent to inform you that you were in danger of contractual breach. As per the penalties stipulated in your contract, your soul and necromantic powers are both forfeit, as are your possessions, which will be appraised and weighed against your outstanding debt."
The necromancer clawed at the door, sobbing and screaming to be let out, while his companions looked on in a mixture of pity. Then his head snapped up and he turned, a desperate fire in his eyes. "I appeal!" he screamed shrilly. "I invoke the right of appeal and call upon my comrades to speak for me!"
The erinyes sighed and nodded, flipping to a new page on her clipboard. "Very well. I will begin the questions. Has the accused - Mr. Hazzan - made use of necromancy?"
"Definitely," the elf drawled, cautiously sheathing his blade. "You can't go two minutes without him trying to murder something."
The halfling winced; the erinyes scrawled something on her page. "How would you say he's furthered the cause of evil?"
"I dunno if he really has," the drow mused. "He really seems to be in it just for the petty spite. I swear he'd eat an orphan's puppy if he thought it'd get him some kind of evil points."
The pen scrawled while the halfling necromancer sobbed in terror.
"Would you say he's been a contribution to your group?"
"No," issued from three different voices.
"Your appeal is denied, Hazzan vas Milor. You are hereby repossessed."
Hazzan tried to dive away from the door, but it was much too late - the floor beneath him opened into a yawning gate that spewed sulfurous smoke and unearthly screams. Black chains, barbed and sharpened and blackened by cruel fire, shot out and wrapped around his limbs in a frenzy of blood and breaking bones. The struggling halfling managed to shriek just once before he was yanked through the pit as if by an angry god, and the portal snapped shut behind him.
"Again, I apologize profusely for the inconvenience," the erinyes said with her winsome smile. She reached into a breast pocket and produced a set of small cards, handing one to each of the remaining adventurers. "My card, in case you're interested in my services on more...honest terms. I'm also authorized to hand out a small bounty for assisting me in the appeals process, so..."
She dropped a pouch in front of the three; it clinked enticingly. "Thank you for your time and your efforts on the behalf of Hell. Good fortune to you!"
The erinyes vanished as swiftly as she arrived, leaving only the stench of sulfur and the pouch on the floor. The drow and the elf turned to the tiefling sorcerer, who stared at his card with a cocked eyebrow.
"What does it say?" the elf inquired.
"Mirishka the Fallen," the tiefling answered. "Department of Mortal Relations."
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That NPC is hilarious. None of my PCs have ever tried a contract with devils, but if they do I think I will have a Mortals relation department.
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Pretty soon my players are gonna fight Vordekai in Kingmaker. I can't wait to see the Warlord be useful in that fight.
So this was posted on the Dreamscarred Press forum site and I wanted to see what others thought of it too:
I remember in ToB how they had the Warblade stance progression listed wrong on the chart and actually gained a stance at 1st, 5th, 11th, and 17th levels (When all the new leveled stances came out barring a few exceptions)I have noticed however a similar issue with the Warlord. As it stands We gain a Stance at 1st, 2nd, 5th, 9th, 14th and 20th levels. This will give us two 1st level stances, a 3rd level stance @5th, another 3rd level @9th, either a 6th level stance or the odd 7th level stance @14th and lastly our 8th level stance as a capstone at 20th level. I was excited to see the possibility for 6 stances however the options of which you can select for them are not supportive of the actual stance levels (i doubt that was your intention.)
Stance Level Breakdowns:
Golden Lion-
1- Pride Leader's Stance
3- Golden Commander Stance
4- Golden Lion Charger ~ odd level
6- Golden General's Attitude
8- Triumphant Lion's LeadershipPrimal Fury-
1- Running Hunter's Stance
1- Stance of Aggression
3- Primal Warrior Stance
6- Skirmisher's Stance
8- Iron Hide StanceScarlet Throne-
1- Circular Stance
1- Scarlet Zweihander
3- Unfettered Movement
6- Scarlet Duelist Attitude
8- Scarlet Majesty StanceSolar Wind-
1- Phantom Sun Stance
1- Stance of Piercing Rays
3- Sunwalker Stance
6- True Shot Stance
8- Solar Hailstorm StanceThrashing Dragon-
1- Inner Sphere Stance
1- Outer Sphere Stance
3- Battle Dragon's Stance
5- Bend With The Wind ~ Odd Level (Except for current progression charts)
7- Brutal Dragon's Stance ~ Odd Level (Only 1 level behind gaining 7th level maneuvers however)
8- Dragon Warrior's TalonsI know this is part of a huge re-hash and makes a sizeable overhaul to the class planning (As I just realized every class shares the same stance gaining progression,) but as it stands without spending feats to add stances in a way that ruins your initiator level you can only have 1 8th level stance, and you only get it at level 20, 5 levels after you got your first 8th level maneuvers.
I can think of only two fixes that would alleviate the majority of this, A) redistribute the stance gains at appropriate levels, or B) re-do the stance levels to match the appropriate gains of new stances. I'm honestly not sure which would work better since they have different levels for each discipline.
I may have struck gold with this idea. Increase the stances to 7 known at 19th level. You would thus gain a stance at levels 1, 2, 5, 8, 11, 15, 19 that would give you a second level 3 stance, or that odd leveled Golden Lion stance at 4th. Alternately drop the level 8 stance if it is too much, however this leaves a huge gap in stance gains but it is a matter of balance at this point i suppose. I cast my vote in favor of the 7 stances.
James.
P.s: Sorry about the length, ToB was always one of my favorite books that was rarely allowed for me to use.
Emphasis mine.
I'm considering this. What do people think?
-X
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Seems like a reasonable concern to have. I would want access to stances at the level they start coming on line, so if there is an issue with the progression it should probably be looked at.
I am also in agreement with this.
After making a few builds for the PoW classes I realized that picking maneuvers was hard, but very possible. There were difficult, but manageable decisions that felt right after selection.
Stance selection, since it was set in stone and because of certain odd placements of stances was very difficult and was not as "right feeling" as maneuver selection. I think this change would do a lot to alleviate this.
I liked the fix that glosz came up with over on giant it the playground for the problem of stances not fitting the level they are gained. He made them all available at first level and then scale with level...
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?293910-Scaling-ToB-stances
Once I get my hands on the finished product I would likely have someone do this to your stances, unless its already done. Having you guys do for me would be a big bonus.
How would you scale stances that
-Make your movement Teleports
-Give you freedom of movement
-Let your allies flank next to you
Lots of the stances are effects without numbers that are hard to make "scale"
How would you scale stances that
-Make your movement Teleports
-Give you freedom of movement
-Let your allies flank next to youLots of the stances are effects without numbers that are hard to make "scale"
You make them numbers that fit the same fluff of what the stance was doing. I haven't memorized or even read most of the stances in ether ToB or PoW, so I don't know which stances have the effects you speak of. But I can could see the Teleport one have its range of how far you teleport scale as you level so it only starts at like 10 and as you level it progress's to say 60 or even 90 ft as a move action (I'm guessing the original was a move action). The Freedom of movement one could start out as a growing boost to Escape artist before gaining its Freedom of movement effect. The last one is a bit trickier but I'm sure there is someone smarter than me that could come up with something.
I liked the fix that glosz came up with over on giant it the playground for the problem of stances not fitting the level they are gained. He made them all available at first level and then scale with level...
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?293910-Scaling-ToB-stances
Once I get my hands on the finished product I would likely have someone do this to your stances, unless its already done. Having you guys do for me would be a big bonus.
That is way too overcomplicated, on top of a system that is, itself, already complicated. Whenever possible use KISS, Keep It Simple Son.
I vote for gaining 7 stances. Doesn't really increase power, just versatility
The scaling stances thing is difficult (imho) in the game, and doesn't fit with how I've got the basic design of maneuvers structured in a discipline.
That said, it's a neat idea, and I applaud the effort. It's neat! I'm doing something similar with some 1st level stances in that they have scaling ability to retain use in high levels of play.
-X
I vote for the seven stances option.
Additionally (not to change the topic) I remember reading that some of the disciplines were having weapon restrictions reduced/eliminated? Is that a thing you can talk about?
I vote for the seven stances option.
Additionally (not to change the topic) I remember reading that some of the disciplines were having weapon restrictions reduced/eliminated? Is that a thing you can talk about?
Without getting into too great a detail, yes, some weapon restrictions have been eliminated to make it more easy to combine disciplines more efficiently. Broken Blade, for example, no longer is exclusively unarmed/discipline weapons, but it does still feature a great deal of unarmed specific strikes and such within it. The idea was to let the maneuvers themselves set their own restrictions instead of the discipline as a whole. Scarlet Throne no longer cares if you use a shield, so your dreams of a Tortoise / Throne user can now be a reality.
-X
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And after discussing with Chris, I'll be reorganizing the maneuvers based upon a) how he originally had it and b) how it was requested to be done, for the final book.
Part 4, which has archetypes, feats, and prestige classes, is almost done. I have to finish layout on the prestige classes and it's good to go.
Design Manager
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I agree that adding scaling stances is probably not the right fix here (and not just because it would create really weird overlap with the Incarna project's scaling nature). Shifting the stances to a progression that smooths the road and makes the total material more accessible with a minimum number of changes is the right fix here.
And really, one additional stance is a very minimal gain in overall power for the class. It's just an extra option, they aren't stacking up stances all at the same time.
One thing to make mention of, is that I've gotten feedback from some folks on several 1st level stances that ultimately aren't used later in the game. Stances like Stance of Aggression, Stance of Piercing Rays, and Pugilist's Stance, which all convey a small damage bonus with a small penalty or requirement, don't scale well in higher level play. Then there are stances like Stance of the Defending Shell and Iron Hand Stance that offer scaling bonuses from the get go, improving as they go.
One thing I was considering was upping the damage caps based on this feedback and my own evidence in my games for this, and saying that the offensive stances above should get increasing returns later in the game by increasing the damage bonus per initiator level in a similar vein to those defensive stances I mentioned.
Example:
Stance of Piercing Rays
Solar Wind (Stance)
Level: 1
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: StanceA Solar Wind disciple learns to cause his ammunition pierce like the burning rays of the sun itself. While in this stance, the initiator’s ranged attacks inflict an additional 1d6 points of fire damage. This bonus damage increases by an additional 1d6 points of fire damage every eight initiator levels. This is a supernatural ability.
Emphasis indicates the change to the stance.
Thoughts?
-X
PS I'm gonna change the stance progression, thanks for the feedback!
I like that idea. Some powers in 4th edition worked that way. You hit a certain level and your powers scale up.
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I like it. Keep all of the stances viable but also adjust the progression. 3d6 total fire damage by 16th level or a similar progression should be enough to matter without being completely bonkers, and without overshadowing more powerful abilities that come on line at a later date.
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I already loved PoW, and now its getting even more versatile.
A lot of the class disparity comes from differences in versatility, so horizontal expansion is great to see.
HEY YALL THE NEW PoW SUPPLEMENT IS OUT! Downloaded and absolutely love it.
Making the Bladecaster full BAB seems like a good idea to me, considering you're going to be 2 character levels behind on spellcasting compared to a full caster. I like the change :)
Am curious, would Battle Templar Ordained Knight ability scale for Domains, Inquisitions, Judgements? Would Shepherd of the Flock Deflection bonus stack with a ring of Deflection?
I love the serene stride feat. This is a great feat that not only gives Stalkers something cool, but can enhance all those other Ki using classes.
I don't think I like the Richochet weapon feat because the returning property doesn't let you full attack because the item comes back next turn to the square you previously occupied, so if you want to catch it you can't move. I guess it's ok for characters who use strikes as long as they move before they throw.
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Just downloaded the 4th part of PoW. PoW = WoW!!!! This may be my favorite product from DSP to come down the pike, and that's saying something since I love me some psionics! I can't wait to see how Incarna turns out!
I'm really liking part 4. One problem I noticed though; Discipline Mastery mentions not increasing the time needed to take 10 on checks. Taking 10 doesn't affect how long it takes to use a skill, so that aspect of the feat doesn't do anything. All it does is let you take 10 in combat.
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Issue with Soul Claiming. "A soul hunter may not claim a target creature with less than 1/2 HD." I assume you mean less that half the soul hunter's HD. But right now as long as it has at least a full hit die I can claim it if I were a jerkass rules lawyer.
Edit: Also the 12th level combat insight for the soul hunter is boring as hell. He already regains expended maneuvers when he kills claimed creatures. There has to be something cooler that he can do. Like maybe a free soulburn on any other claimed targets or something.
Edit 2: The battle templar is the super awesome.
Edit 3: Battle Templar issues. Last sentence of Divine Recovery, you should probably specify per spell level. It's a little unclear that that's what you intend because it could be read as templar level.
Guardian of the Faith grants a divine bonus. As far as I'm aware that bonus doesn't exist anywhere else. Did you mean sacred bonus? If not, you might as well have left it untyped since nothing else will be overlapping with it.
Edit 4: Dragon fury art is outstanding. Kudos to whoever did that one.
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Umbral Blade is my personal favorite PrC from the book. My second favorite is Mage Hunter then Dragon Fury.
The Umbral Blade gives a player a route to do something really cool and unique in a campaign without requiring you to spell cast.
Mage Hunter I love because it gives the player spellcasting without taking any spellcasting levels before the PrC. Also love the cool toolbox of its class features.
Favrite archtype is Steelfist commando because it gives a versatile, unarmed style that actually feels like the heroes from an action movie.
The Judge, Hawkguard, and Dervish are also archetypes I wanna try.
Love the book!
Any thoughts on the feats?
>.>
<.<
>.>
Issue with Soul Claiming. "A soul hunter may not claim a target creature with less than 1/2 HD." I assume you mean less that half the soul hunter's HD. But right now as long as it has at least a full hit die I can claim it if I were a jerkass rules lawyer.
Edit: Also the 12th level combat insight for the soul hunter is boring as hell. He already regains expended maneuvers when he kills claimed creatures. There has to be something cooler that he can do. Like maybe a free soulburn on any other claimed targets or something.
Edit 2: The battle templar is the super awesome.
Edit 3: Battle Templar issues. Last sentence of Divine Recovery, you should probably specify per spell level. It's a little unclear that that's what you intend because it could be read as templar level.
Guardian of the Faith grants a divine bonus. As far as I'm aware that bonus doesn't exist anywhere else. Did you mean sacred bonus? If not, you might as well have left it untyped since nothing else will be overlapping with it.
Edit 4: Dragon fury art is outstanding. Kudos to whoever did that one.
Thanks for mentioning these issues, I'll make sure to fix these for the final. As always man, you rock! :)
-X
Aside from Richochet shot I like all the feats. Returning quality has a lot of problems and a Blink back belt is only 5k.
I love serene stride and the discipline skill feats. The Net feat for Warders is awesome!
Also that ability that gives additional D8s for the Umbral blade is missing the part that explains the d8 progression from its description.
I only extrapolated what it was because of the chart.
I really like Defensive Expertise as a way to shore up holes in your typical 'heavily armored guy with a shield' build.
Defensive web is really interesting as a method of battlefield control, but the increase in range on Defensive Focus also means that it restricts enemies to a larger area the higher your level gets, which is counter-intuitive.
Discipline Mastery is a bit weak, especially for the prerequisite. All it really does is let you take 10 in combat on a single skill, and it has to be one associated with a discipline. It's a fraction of what the Skill Mastery rogue talent does.
Martial Charge seems like a wonderful way to add a little more mobility to certain characters. I'm concerned about whether it was intended to function with strikes that require a full round action to execute, but I'm not sure it would be a problem even if it did.
Martial Power seems cool at first glance, but the to-hit penalty is so insane that it kinda removes any incentive to use it after a few levels. It either needs to provide a much more significant temporary hitpoint bonus, or have a significantly lower attack penalty.
Ricochet Weapon is underwhelming. It's functional for standard action strikes, I guess, but returning has serious flaws (like not being usable for full attacks and failing if you move after attacking).
Serene Stride seems really great for providing extra mobility to Ki classes.
Tactical Rush is underwhelming. It's effectively worth the 1,000 gp a quickrunner's shirt costs. If it scales up at higher levels rather than requiring multiple feats it would be a lot more tolerable.
I like Weapon Group Adaptation as a way to get the specific fluff you want on a character, but I can't help but feel like it's not quite enough from a single feat.
Discipline Mastery is a bit weak, especially for the prerequisite. All it really does is let you take 10 in combat on a single skill, and it has to be one associated with a discipline. It's a fraction of what the Skill Mastery rogue talent does.
You may wanna check that again. The wording should - if I did it right, mind - make it apply to all of your associated discipline skills.
Ah, you're right. That's a bit better, then. But what that still requires you to have 8 ranks in the skill in question.
For Warlords:
Diplomacy, Survival, Sense Motive, Perception, and Acrobatics
For Warders:
Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Bluff, and Survival
For Stalkers:
Acrobatics, Perception, Heal, and Stealth
So, at most four or five skills. And only Perception, Acrobatics, and rarely Bluff (for feint focused builds) really have combat applications. It has uses for disciplines where skill checks are relevant- but only when you succeed on a 10- and that's only probably going to be relevant for one or MAYBE two disciplines on any given character.
The PDFs will have a final round of updates and then be compiled into a release PDF which includes ALL the material.
Then I'll happen to it. <Grin>
So which martial class would everyone dip for the Bladecaster?
Warder or Warlord here because they don't use a lot of maneuvers with DCs.
Mage Hunter?
Considering Stalker with the Insight to use maneuvers at close range. Alternatively Warlord to apply maneuvers with a bow.
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Umbral Blade stuff.
Shadow Blade: Can I use it on multiple weapons? How many actions does it take to shadow blade both ends of a double weapon? When does it end?
Blade of Night: Kind of refers back to the previous question. If I'm wielding two short swords does a single move action charge both of them? What about a double weapon?
I'd love to see this rolled in too. As a 3/4th BAB class I don't full attack every turn, but I do use strikes very often.
I'd be for it.
Alright, cross-posting this to get some additional input:
Very recently, I got some feedback from a gentleman on the Dreamscarred Press forums; his player is currently playing a Harbinger. It begins here, and sorta transitions into a debate about Accursed Will and its balance. I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts on that score, as I'm not certain that I'm being entirely objective. Other forms of feedback, as always, remain appreciated as well ^_^.
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I'm going to preface this by saying that I had this conversation with Prince a while back, we kind of went back and forth, and then he toned Accursed Will down a bit to its current form, which I agreed was pretty much acceptable. That being said-
So, the biggest problem with Accursed Will is tied into what you gain vs. what you give up for each of the three stats.
If you go STR, you lose out on your Climb and Swim checks and STR ability checks. I've got to be honest, since none of those really factor into combat, it's not a big loss, and unless I'm needing to climb greased ice walls, I'll probably be able to do what I need to do.
Meanwhile, the things you give up for CON and DEX are big deals, and directly impact your ability to perform in combat. Taking hits to your defenses as opposed to taking hits to checks that are almost entirely replaced by spells by 3rd level anyways means going the STR route is a no brainer. Forget going DEX, I'm in light armor with a d8 and I don't want my defenses to be entirely reliant on my stances. And boosting CON without getting my Fort bonus.... That's a hard trade. And not one I'm sure I'd make while I honestly won't even think twice about choosing STR.
This is tricky because in most stat consolidation type abilities you either
1) trade a mental stat for a mental stat, like the way the Inquisitor collapses some CHA and INT based skills into WIS
2) you actually pay out of a pool of abilities that could be used for other cool stuff to get one specific thing to add the out of bracke stat to, like the way certain Oracles can spend a revelation to add CHA to their Ref saves or AC
or
3) (this is a little like two without the floating option) You have a specific dedicated class ability that adds the out of bracket stat to a particular character facet, like the Paladin's Divine Grace or the Monk's AC bonus. Note that both of those come with baggage (Paladin has to do his usual schtick to maintain class abilities, monk loses his bonus when he gains armor).
In Accursed Will you have an ability that is very meta, though granted with good fluff, and is a natural tool for optimization. The STR option is the most optimized ability from a selection pretty much created for optimizers. The first time I talked to Prince about this ability I talked about making it a scaling thing where you add the replaced stat a bit at a time (at 1st level you get as your to -hit stat for a specific maneuver, at third level you get INT to damage, then later to all attacks, etc.), and his response was that then you end up with characters who aren't doing the things you expect them to do at 1st level and have trouble being competent. And that's not entirely wrong.
I know the Harbinger has come a ways, but I also know Accursed Will comes up a lot, and on forums that are generally a little more forgiving of powerful abilities.
Have you considered condensing the three options into one scaling Accursed Will ability designed to give you the pieces you need as ou progress?
For example: At first level you gain a bonus on attack rolls equal to 1/2 your INT mod (this would allow it to stack with the people who want just enough STR to use Power Attack later). At 4rd level you add your Int mod to Will and Ref saves. At 7th level you gain bonus hit points for leveling up using the higher of your INT or CON (make it clear that it's retroactive). At 10th level your bonus to attack rolls increases to your INT mod and you gain a bonus on damage rolls equal to your INT mod as well.
That gives you enough to get by when you really need it, you actually end up with more at the end, but it's broken up in such a way that it stays fairly well balanced throughout.
Ssalarn, I'm gonna crosspost that so the other two forums can see it. It raises some interesting points. I assume you meant Fort instead of Will for the saves you referenced, though?
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Design Manager
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Ssalarn, I'm gonna crosspost that so the other two forums can see it. It raises some interesting points. I assume you meant Fort instead of Will for the saves you referenced, though?
D'oh! Yes, that's exactly what I meant. I had "Accursed Will" in my head :P
I notice I also said something should happen at "4rd" level....
I was still drinking my coffee during that post.
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A scaling mechanic might not be bad. Allow the harbinger to add to his physical score an amount of his intelligence capped at various levels. I did a wellborn fighter archetype and he had this:
Elegant Strikes (Ex)
When using a weapon befitting his station, the wellborn gains a bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to his Charisma bonus. At 4th level, the maximum bonus is +2. The maximum bonus increases by 2 at 8th, 12th, and 16th level.
This ability replaces weapon training 1-4.
Something similar might work for you.
Also, Knives, I think you wrote Umbral Blade. Did you see my questions above?
Umbral Blade stuff.
Shadow Blade: Can I use it on multiple weapons? How many actions does it take to shadow blade both ends of a double weapon? When does it end?
Blade of Night: Kind of refers back to the previous question. If I'm wielding two short swords does a single move action charge both of them? What about a double weapon?
Also, Knives, I think you wrote Umbral Blade. Did you see my questions above?
I'm not sure if I should be flattered or worried that you think this is my work, but I wrote 0% of the currently-released PrCs. I contributed some editing work to most of them, but to be frank I haven't even read Umbral Blade yet and probably need to go through it with a comb and then yell at Chris a lot. Address questions that-a-way.