Soulrutep |
I'm looking at some creative ways to utilize my summoned monster spells. So last session I summoned a Brachiosaurus (Monster summoning VII), while flying several hundred feet in the air, to land upon a building where some bad guys were hanging out in. Now the DM said it partially demolished the building, but today I intend on dropping it on some foes directly. How much damage should 32 tons of Jurassic goodness falling at terminal velocity, do too my hapless victims? Any references? Hmmm I wonder if I could sweeten the deal with a flesh to stone spell? hmmm.
Serisan |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally must place the creature on a surface. You can't summon things into the air, even if they fly.
Edit: From the Magic chapter, Conjuration:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
Forseti |
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:No summoning dolphins on landSource? While I don't see why someone would want to do this, I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed for some evil experimentalist character.
From the Summon Monster I spell:
"Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them."
While dolphins, being air-breathing mammals, wouldn't have a short-term problem when brought onto dry land, it's not exactly an environment that supports them in a broader sense than immediate survival.
The Golux |
Joesi wrote:Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:No summoning dolphins on landSource? While I don't see why someone would want to do this, I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed for some evil experimentalist character.From the Summon Monster I spell:
"Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them."
While dolphins, being air-breathing mammals, wouldn't have a short-term problem when brought onto dry land, it's not exactly an environment that supports them in a broader sense than immediate survival.
On the other hand, I think the absolute longest a summon monster/nature's ally spell can last for is like four minutes...
Ronin3058 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally must place the creature on a surface. You can't summon things into the air, even if they fly.
Edit: From the Magic chapter, Conjuration:
Quote:A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
Wouldn't that mean you have to summon a swimming creature on the ground of the sea instead of summoning it somewhere in the water?
Serisan |
3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Serisan wrote:Wouldn't that mean you have to summon a swimming creature on the ground of the sea instead of summoning it somewhere in the water?Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally must place the creature on a surface. You can't summon things into the air, even if they fly.
Edit: From the Magic chapter, Conjuration:
Quote:A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
I would interpret any square that is mostly full of water without an occupying creature to constitute an open location and water is capable of supporting a swimming creature.
Gauss |
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them.
Thus, you cannot summon a whale in mid-air.
There remains a debate on whether or not you can summon an air-breathing water creature on land (can the land support them). My opinion is no, since it is not the natural environment. Unless it has a land speed of course.I have a house rule that if a creature can fly then it can appear flying but this is clearly against the 'appear floating in an empty space' clause.
- Gauss
Forseti |
Forseti wrote:On the other hand, I think the absolute longest a summon monster/nature's ally spell can last for is like four minutes...From the Summon Monster I spell:
"Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them."
While dolphins, being air-breathing mammals, wouldn't have a short-term problem when brought onto dry land, it's not exactly an environment that supports them in a broader sense than immediate survival.
It's definitely not a clear-cut situation, because 'support' is a word that can have several meanings. "To provide a basis for the existence or subsistence of" is probably much too strict, because it wouldn't let you summon most animals into the heart of a searing-hot desert, but I think that's the direction to go.
(Myself, I just let people summon anything that can function uninhibitedly for a decent amount of time in the environment at hand. That pretty much rules out dolphins on dry land. But that's my RAI interpretation and not very useful here.)
Rogar Stonebow |
You cannot be on the surface of the water if you are 10 feet below it. The rules specifically call out Surface. Therefore by RAW, the fish can be summoned on the surface of the ground under water, or on the surface of the water above. No in between. You can summon a bird, and it can be flying in the 5 foot cube that is directly on the surface.
Here is a doozy. Say an illusionist an illusion of a bridge spanning two parallel cliffs, and a conjurer comes up to the bridge and conjures a troll to stand on the bridge to guard it. What happens?
What if the conjurer conjures a flying dragon on the bridge?
James Jacobs Creative Director |
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
It probably should be FAQed... but frankly, I think you SHOULD be able to summon flying creatures in flight. That's the point of them being able to fly.
Summon monster isn't meant to allow you to create "bombs" is all. That type of effect is certainly possible (if kind of silly), but it'd need to be its own specially-researched spell, set at an appropriate level where the damage it does is appropriate. AKA: The spell's level isn't set by the power of the creature, but the damage it does when it lands on you.
James Risner Owner - D20 Hobbies |
blahpers |
1: Summon Ankylosaurus (6,000 lbs)
2: Cast Pup Shape on Ankylosaurus
3: Ready An Action to cast Dispel Magic on Pup Shape when Anklyosaurus is about to impact enemy (auto-success)
4: Have friendly Barbarian (Rage Power: Hurling, Lesser & Hurling) throw baby Ankylosaurus at enemy
5: Splat?
6. Ankylosaurus hits with the full force of a puppy due to Pathfinder's version of magical conservation of momentum (see reduce person).
James Risner Owner - D20 Hobbies |
blahpers |
I guess I always overlooked this rule, I've summoned many flying creatures midair and have seen others do it too. One more thing to add to the list of houserules.
It's more fun summoning flyers in midair, so that's how I like to run it.
Hmm. You could summon a celestial brachiosaur, cast fly on it, order it (via speak with animals and Handle Animal or something) to fly above your opponent, then order it to stop flying and drop. Seems like a lot of effort, though.
Tomos |
Tomos wrote:6. Ankylosaurus hits with the full force of a puppy due to Pathfinder's version of magical conservation of momentum (see reduce person).1: Summon Ankylosaurus (6,000 lbs)
2: Cast Pup Shape on Ankylosaurus
3: Ready An Action to cast Dispel Magic on Pup Shape when Anklyosaurus is about to impact enemy (auto-success)
4: Have friendly Barbarian (Rage Power: Hurling, Lesser & Hurling) throw baby Ankylosaurus at enemy
5: Splat?
I dunno blaphers... I think my example works. A medium archer with Reduce Person cast on him does damage as a medium archer, just like a medium archer with Enlarge Person cast on him does damage as a medium archer. I think that the anklyosaurus would do damage as his full size, as he is 'leaving' a transmutation effect, so to speak.
It's a terrible idea as a combat strategy, but I think it's hilarious.
I love the flying Brachiosaurus trick. Fly doesn't have a weight restriction. Would he have to be trained? Would you need a Druid/Ranger to Push him to fly?
Something almost inverse of this topic happened in a campaign I was in. The party Druid wildshaped into a bird or something like that and flew up to grapple the Dragon. Grapple check, Wildshape into Mastodon, fall to the earth (300'+), Quench. Dead Dragon.