Thorn Creeper Sandals

[Nickolas Floyd]

Sandals, Thorn Creeper

Aura moderate conjuration and transmutation; CL 10th
Slot feet; Price 19,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Description
Though comfortable to wear, these open-toed sandals appear to be made of thorny vines, the soles of which are covered in small, twitching roots. If the wearer is the subject of a bull rush, drag, reposition, or trip attempt, the roots momentarily burrow into the ground, and grant the user a +2 circumstance bonus to CMD.

The wearer can stamp her feet as a free action to begin planting deep roots that spring up thorny vines as she walks. While the sandals are active in this way, the wearer's speed is limited to 40 ft, but each 5-ft. square the user exits as part of her movement, is affected as though by an entangle spell with thorns (DC 17). The wearer can use this ability for up to 10 rounds per day. These rounds need not be consecutive. The entangle effect's duration begins the round the wearer ends an activation. Once per day as a standard action, the wearer may cause the vines in up to 40 of these spaces, to spring 10 feet into the air. This replaces the entangle effect in those spaces, with a thorny bramble that mimics the wall of thorns spell, except that the duration of the wall is the remaining duration of the entangle effect it began as. Those caught in the wall automatically take damage.

All of the sandals' abilities function only on surfaces that are softer than steel.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Heighten Spell, certain grip, entangle, wall of thorns; Cost 9,500 gp

[Clark Peterson]

This is the best of several shoes that had entangle/thorn issues. I'll admit, I don't think it is the strongest of our top items. What got this one the nod is it used the same type of effects from the other items we compared it against but it used them in cooler ways. Good luck!

[Wolfgang Baur]

This is the year of the thorny shoes! Or at least, those entries got a lot of votes. Since comparisons with the briarthorn boots and others are inevitable, I'll just say I prefer this design, which generates a more interesting use of the entangle effect.

However, 10 rounds times 30 ft. Speed is potentially 60 five-foot squares filled with entangle each day. Might be slightly undercosted.

Let's keep this as the best of a strangely-popular breed of entangle items.

[Sean K Reynolds]

"the wearer's speed is limited to 40 ft," ... given that most characters can't do better than speed 30, that's not really a limitation.

We had several "thorny footwear" items in the top voting this year; this is the best of them.

[Steve Miller]

I had to read this item multiple times to fully understand what it does and how it works. With that understanding, it is not my cup of tea, but an intriguing item.

[Mike Welham]

Welcome to the Top 32, Phloid!

Druid-themed items are hard to come by, and this is a nice one. I like that you limit it to something less hard than steel (although I am not sure how to exactly adjudicate it), but the 40-foot movement rate limitation is not much of a limitation. I do like the range of effects, from the passive bonus to CMD to the most powerful wall of thorns ability. While the sandals are druid-oriented, any party member can benefit from them.

Best of luck in the contest!

[Tom Phillips]

First of all, congratulations on making the Top 32! That in itself is a major accomplishment and it’s something you should take great pride in. You rock!

Like Steve, I had to re-read this item several times to figure it out. The writing needs some polish. As it stands, the description is wordy and needlessly complicated. Aside from some clunky phrasing in the description, the thorn creeper sandals are very interesting. The name is great and ties it tightly to a theme. I really like the image of a character leaving a trail of writhing thorny vines in her wake. That's new and evocative. So, cool item, but definitely do some proofreading for the archetype round. Best of luck to you!

[James Olchak]

This is an okay item. It's got a solid thematic element, the abilities are tied together well.

The mechanical description is shaky. I also had to read it it a couple times, and the "harder than steel" limitation is unlikely to come into play (how many dungeons have steel floors?).

Thematically good, mechanically poor.

[Garrett Guillotte]

This item was a weak Keep for me. It's similar to an item I did not submit this year, so I'm happy to see the same themes and game concepts succeed.

The mechanic as written is more complex than necessary. A loose interpretation could lead to player abuse, and implementing two obtusely explained effects will slow down GMs during combat encounters.

The saveless auto-damage effect across up to 200 square feet is also problematic, although that's what wall of thorns appears to do at CL 10.

[Jacob W. Michaels]

I'm surprised at some of the reactions here. I actually really liked all three thorny sandal type items I saw; I didn't ever figure out which one was my favorite, but the concept was obviously popular with designers, which means it's likely to be popular with others.

I like the conversion to wall of thorns as well. Certainly adds some utility to a neat item.

[Orthos]

I do like this one, remember voting for it a couple times. I don't remember where exactly the [b]*STOMP!* *Vine spike!!*[/i] visual image seemed familiar from, but this item did not fail to amuse by evoking it.

[Drejk]

I am fan of entangle so I voted for this item a few times. The matter of 40 ft speed limit could be handled otherwise (prehaps a limit of how many squares can be affected per turn?).

[Kiel Howell]

This rounded out my favorite top 3 with Gorum's Stompers and Cloudwrangler's Gloves.

Well done!

The same questions and issues above echo what I would say, so I won't repeat them.

I am hoping to see some super cool Round 2 and beyond from you!

[Reckless]

Congratulations on making the top 32! This was one of the items in my personal keep file and I look forward to seeing your efforts in round 2.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

I liked the idea behind the briarthorn boots better, but your item was much better put together and flowed nicely. I have to admit, they reminded me of the Walking Dead board game and how moving left a trail of zombies behind.

[agirlnamedbob]

Congrats, Phloid! I quite liked these and I'm glad to see that they belonged to you.

I actually liked all of the similar items, but I agree that these were well executed, despite some flaws. They grew on me each time I saw them, too, so I'm pleased to see them in the Top 32.

Good luck with the next round!

[James Conder]

This was another item I picked up on several times during the voting round. Hippy sandals with animate, twitching roots. I think I've seen a few of those around on the festival circuit.

Personally I'd limit speed to 20-ft. and make wearing these sandals a more meaningful character choice, but the mechanics are not so important when the flavour is this tasty.

[Nicholas Herold]

Very cool item! I voted for it a couple of times and I am pleased to see it here.

Congratulations! See you in the archetype round!

[Nickolas Floyd]

Thanks to everyone who voted for my item and to the judges who overlooked the flaws to find the magic within.

I almost soiled myself when saw not one, but two other plant shoe items in the open voting. One of them was really close, with an identical minor effect and two of the same construction spells. Hats off to the designers of those items. Great minds think alike. But I did feel that my sandals were stronger and I'm glad the judges agreed.

It has been a long slog getting here. I've entered every year hoping to get a chance to play though the other rounds. Now I have that chance and I don't intend on falling fast. Thanks again for the support and thanks to Paizo and the judges for putting on this awesome contest for six years.

[Iain Reid]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

"the wearer's speed is limited to 40 ft," ... given that most characters can't do better than speed 30, that's not really a limitation.

Haste is still one of the most popular spells in the game, even a decade after the 3.5 'nerf', is it not?

I agree though that the item is a little too powerful. Wall of thorns, for 10 rounds/day, where you can shape as you will, with additional entangles (as a free action)... too much, too good. It's not a pricing error, just some tweaks that need to happen to the item. Perhaps only one or two rounds/day would be fine. Or maybe that all the thorns need to sprout, not some of them. Not sure. I think for an item such as this, which is difficult to balance mechanically, you would definitely benefit from play-testing in a couple of encounters. That would have thrown up these questions early.

Good spot with the last sentence though. A lesser person would have missed that, leading to questions of what happens if the user is levitating or flying, or underwater etc.

[Steven Helt]

Congratulations, Phloid! I totally voted for this item as I want to see more druid-appropriate items and I thiught it kept its theme well. Good luck this year!

[Celestial Healer]

This might have been my favorite item from voting. Glad to see you made it in!

[Andrew Marlowe]

Congratulations on making the top 32. I never saw these during the voting period that I can recall but I rather like them. I could see playing a druid or a monk with a pair of thorn creeper sandals.

Good luck in round 2.

[Nickolas Floyd]

Since the round is closed and we are allowed to comment on our own items, I just want to point out a few of my design choices here so that, even if you don't agree with me, you can at least see where I was coming from.

As Evil Paul pointed out, "haste" was a consideration. I showed the sandals to a friend before I submitted and he said, "Cool, but hasted monk breaks it." So that is when I went back and added the speed limit and put a cap on the number of squares the Wall of Thorns effect could affect. I still wanted it to be a great choice for a monk, after all sandals are a monk's favorite footwear, so I capped the speed at 40-ft instead of 30. I'm ok with haste at this speed limit and my next point will explain why.

Evil Paul also was right about it needing play-testing to truly gauge its power level or under cost potential. When looking at it one must consider the action economy principle, but in reverse, as it is actually a action hog to get its full potential. The free action activation is abnormal, but don't forget that it takes a move action on top of it for them to do anything at all. A single move action gets you 6 squares of entangle (assuming 30-ft speed). If you spend your standard action as well you get 12 squares. The entangle spell by itself, though not shapeable, gives you an astounding 172 squares of coverage for a standard action casting. In order for the sandals to create a full CL 10 Wall of Thorns effect, the character with 30-ft speed would need to spend 7 move actions to lay down entangle, and then a standard action to activate the Wall of Thorns ability. That's four whole rounds instead of the standard action casting time and you have to move through each of those spaces potentially incurring AOOs. With haste it still takes 2 and 2/3 rounds. Honestly, after submitting, I thought I may have OVER priced it a little.

Lastly, I included the line about only working on surfaces softer than steel mostly to avoid the question as to whether the roots could burrow into stone, which I thought was important since dungeon floors are usually such. I should have phrased it that way in stead of inverting it.

Thanks for everyone's encouragement and the critiques. The RPG Superstar community has helped me so much to grow as a designer over the years.

[Richard Moore]

Of the multitude of items that were built around the "makes rough terrain wherever you walk" theme, this one was my favorite by far. Formatting and grammar are pretty good, but make sure to write out distances in item stat blocks - say "feet", not "ft."

[frank gori]

The Good: Loved these, cool concept great execution.

The Bad:There was another version of these out there, you won out but it could have gone the other way.

The Ugly: Agree witht he feedback that these are a little over the top power level-wise, I think you could get it better with tweaks.

Overall: Sweet, will likely make my homegame with some minor alterations. Congrats on top 32.

[Correlon]

This is well executed I think, you did good honest work developing this. Useful and cool.

In my opinion, your main obsession (right after AWESOME) with your archetype should be clarity of presentation in the abilities. I detest having to read stuff twice to understand it, and I'm not too bright!

I had an item along these lines in the works this year, a thorny crown-ish thing, but decided it had been done. Boy was I ever wrong. Just goes to show that awesome trumps a crowded field any day.

[Curaigh]

Congratulations Nickolas,

I like the transition from entangle to thorn wall & entangle is way cooler than difficult terrain, especially at lower levels. It is a natural progression of the spells, and though writing could have been clearer, I think the theme is served well. EDIT: I liked the bonus to CMD, most of these things make it skill bonuses, but the roots taking hold really sold it.

My suggestion for R2: Read your submission aloud. Have a non-gamer read it out loud.

Good luck and nice job! :)

[RonarsCorruption]

Nickolas, congrats on making it through!

On one hand, I like the idea of leaving a trail of thorns behind you as you walk, but on the other hand... I dunno, the effect doesn't feel fantastic enough for a superstar item. Mechanically it's good and fun, but flavor wise... I think you could have done more.

Good luck in the next round!

[Pedro Coelho]

Nickolas,

What a tough spot you were in! Every time I saw one of the plant-themed boots, I had to stop and read it again to remember which was which. Truth is, yours were really the best of the lot. Converting the entangle effect to a wall of thorns is a great idea, specially since you can select any 40 squares. It allows for some nice tactical and battlefield control options, though some of them might be hard to pull off. Very nice. Congratulations on finally making the Top 32, you surely deserved it!

[Nickolas Floyd]

Curaigh wrote:

My suggestion for R2: Read your submission aloud. Have a non-gamer read it out loud.

Good luck and nice job! :)

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. Part of the reason my submission was wordy is I put some edits into it at the last minute. Had to add some clarification and restrictions to avoid brokenness and instead of rewriting, I just added words to existing sentences. That was not smart.

And just to let you know, I took your advice and had my wife read to me. Should be an improvement, I hope.

[Jon Haire]

I like this item and voted for it quite a bit. The trail of growth is a great visual and gives this item mojo.

[Joel Flank]

I think while the sandals are somewhat cool, they're hurt by the fact that there were a LOT of boot slot items this year that used battlefield control - 3 in the top 32 alone (hell-shod boots and Gorum's stompers). Unfortunately, it made it much harder to stand out from the crowd, and in your case, I felt that Gorum's stompers were a much better item overall. The thorn creepers seem a bit overpowered getting to make walls of entangled areas as a free action, and turning them into a wall of thorns at some point as well.

[Nickolas Floyd]

Joel Flank wrote:

The thorn creepers seem a bit overpowered getting to make walls of entangled areas as a free action, and turning them into a wall of thorns at some point as well.

I really think that you are over estimating the power of this effect. It is not like a wall spell where you can just arbitrarily place it where you want it. It takes at least one MOVE ACTION, to get anything from it. And unless you can pass through enemy spaces, you can't place it directly on an enemy like a wall spell or the entangle spell can. Unless you can avoid AOOs, you will have a hard time encircling enemies with it. Enemies can simply avoid the squares with the entangle effect in it if they want, or even jump a five foot wide area with a simple DC 5 Acrobatics check. It is fairly useful to "fill up" spaces in a prolonged melee as you move, but unless you are taking AOOs or using abilities to avoid them, you will feel like you are wasting a round of activation to use it on a five-foot step. And the entangle limits yours and your allies' mobility on the battlefield too. The sandals are most effective when you are fleeing, and even then when it is through 5-foot wide passages or through doors.

At minimum caster level, the wall of thorns spell gives you 36 five foot squares that you place directly on enemies as a standard action. It costs an additional move action with the sandals, but you get only 6 squares (assuming 30-ft speed), and they are only in the line you just walked through.

Both of the spell effects are very limited by the way the sandals place the effect and the movement it requires, and this is one reason I boosted the DC of the entangle effect. Seriously, there are nuances to using the Thorn Creeper Sandals you probably can't see until you try it in combat due to its fairly unique placement method. Try it out and see if you still think it is overpowered.

[Joel Flank]

It's not the effect that's too overpowered, but the activation. While you're placing those entangle squares, you can your your standard action to cast other spells, like slow, other wall spells, suggestions to walk into the nice comfy plants, etc. It's the combination with whatever else you're doing that makes these overpowered. If all you do it move around the battlefield placing your entangles, that's fine

[Nickolas Floyd]

I see what you are saying, and it does break the action economy of the game some by allowing you to lay down an average of 6 squares of entangle a round and still attack or cast a spell. But you still have to move through those spaces, so it does cost you something. And I still feel that those 6 squares are a pretty minor effect that is easily avoidable most of the time, especially compared to the massive entangle spell, or any wall spell. Sure it combos with other effects. Finding cool combos is part of the game. Maybe I under cost it some, but I don't feel that it is broken. It could use some play testing in an actually campaign though.

And thanks for your critique, Joel and others. It is good to hear other's take on my work and be able to work through this stuff in my head. I think I've got to see the sandals in action for multiple encounters before I decide how overpowered it is.

Please let me know here if anyone decides to use my sandals in their game. Thanks.

[Template Fu]

As prior entries will tell you, Template Fu is one mean point eating machine, but will also praise where praise is due.

These reviews being this in depth usually take me a while to do and they get fitted in around other demands on my time, so please bear with me if I haven’t gotten to your item yet. I will get there in the end.

Review Caveat: I try to keep things totally dispassionate and all comments herein are my own. Having not made the illustrious levels that you have achieved this year, I can only caveat that anything I propose in feedback may not be totally in line with what Paizo thinks or needs of its freelance game designers, so do consider carefully any and all feedback I make under this light.

I start your review with…

Congratulations on being selected by the public at large and then the stalwart judges!

Review Breakdown:

Template: 4/5
Perfect template use … almost. The use of –ft instead of feet is a 3.5 throwback. Be careful with abbreviations going forwards, if they aren’t abbreviated in the core books for Pathfinder, then you shouldn’t.

Spelling: 5/5
This bit IS boilerplate to avoid confusion. Everyone should know to use US English, so you just know that I am going to eat points for stray ‘u’ letters and similar.

Template Fu continues with his marathon watch of Heroes in his den, let’s not disturb him…

Readability: 5/5
These are readings you can get from most spelling and grammar check options in word processors, for this, I am pasting everyone’s description into Word for consistency. My grading’s are purely my own personal feelings for target scores but it should be noted these are very helpful during development to spot problems in your writing, especially passivity.

Passive Sentences 0% (wicked)
There are whole threads on this and it is possible to get 0%, which is wicked, but I would expect scores of less than 20% to be around the ideal mark for item descriptions (sometimes, you need the passive, but only rarely).

Flesch Reading Ease 63.9 (good)
(0-30 best understood by university graduates, 60-70 easily understood by 13-15 year olds, 90-100 easily understood by 11 year olds)

Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level 9.6 (nicely done)
(This equates to the grades found in the US schooling system, e,g. 8.2 means it should be understandable by the average 8th grade student)

Me as a Designer Review: 3/5
Ok, let’s start with what is becoming a bit of a pet peeve of mine this year, and that is the word “appears”, rather than having the shoes appear to be made of, make them of, it’s much stronger. Be bold and decisive, that will catch my attention more.

I also keep coming back to that speed restriction. I think what you meant was to reduce a single move action speed to reduce the potential coverage of the effect, so to this end. Speed is the game term that determines how far you can move with single move action, and I just can’t shake the feeling that you meant that if all you do is move for the round, your maximum coverage is 40 feet. So for that, you should have said the wearer has a maximum speed of 20 feet. But this too has problems, there are races that already have that as a maximum speed, far better then had you said that the wearer’s speed is reduced by 10 feet per round, with a minimum speed of 10 feet. That way, you affect a wearer equally regardless of their base speed.

I wasn’t very kean on the very last line of the description. If you are standing in a very rocky mountain side, steel will chip the rocks, yet there would be no purchase for the roots of the thorny vines to grow and attach to. This needs either removing (the vines will grow anywhere because they are magic), or a better solution would be to say something like, the vines must be activated over ground soil.

OK, the rest is pretty good, but you too have fallen into my other pet peeve – the not consecutive usage that introduces book-keeping into my game. Gah! I have already covered this on other reviews, so I won’t bore everyone by repeating it here.

The book keeping cost you a point, and the speed issue another. But apart from that, it is a very solid entry. Well done.

Overall Impression: 5/5
This item is very well executed with a good attention to detail evident in your template usage. I have already deducted for the speed issue above, so I won’t deduct here again, but I was sorely tempted to.

I look forward to your archetype with great expectation!

Final Score: 22/25
I won’t give a final score comment as I haven’t for anyone else as I work through the items.

If this interests for personal reasons, please feel free to check out everyone else’s scores and at the same time check out your competition and their feedback too!

Closing, as I started…

Congratulations on being selected!