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what ability gives you that?my tier-appropriate PC is incapable of being surprised?
;)
Okay, he's not completely un-surprisable, but close:
Foresight wizard's Forewarned ability: he always gets to act in the surprise round, even if he fails to notice his enemies.
Add to this the fact that he has +10 initiative, and more often than not he's actually acting before a would-be ambusher. Obviously, I can't attack/target an enemy that I haven't noticed yet, but it still gives me a chance to be on my guard, cast a buff spell, ready an action, whatever. And at the very least, not be flat-footed. :D
Hope you enjoy the game. Let us know how it went.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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When I played this at a convention, we had a level 1 rogue (first time Pathfinder player) go from full to dead without even a crit. And with his Shield spell, my paladin could only hit the magus on a 19 or 20. We managed to disarm him, but he stole my longsword while I was down (luckily he couldn't finesse with it). But then the cleric refused to give me the rapier we'd taken from him, claiming that he didn't want me to get disarmed and let the magus take the rapier back. So then I picked up a chair, and after whiffing a couple of times, managed to hit him for max damage for the kill.
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When I played this at a convention, we had a level 1 rogue (first time Pathfinder player) go from full to dead without even a crit. And with his Shield spell, my paladin could only hit the magus on a 19 or 20. We managed to disarm him, but he stole my longsword while I was down (luckily he couldn't finesse with it). But then the cleric refused to give me the rapier we'd taken from him, claiming that he didn't want me to get disarmed and let the magus take the rapier back. So then I picked up a chair, and after whiffing a couple of times, managed to hit him for max damage for the kill.
Now that's some creative fighting. I applaud this GM and your fellow players.
I played it at the mid tier with my ranger. One very solid spell strike brought me close to deaths door(I believe I was about 5 points from). We managed to gang up on him and take him down though.
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Speaking of magi,
There's a magus in one of the quest for perfections.
My wife was playing in a game I was GMing at gamex. The magus crits with her scimitar and a shocking grasp. I look at my wife and say, "Honey, I think I just killed your character." ruefully.
The shocking grasp dice come up: 1,2,1,1. Still did something like 30 damage and threw the character across the ship. Boy, I was almost in SERIOUS TROUBLE.
I don't mind Magi, but wow.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Played and survived. I got critted down to -3 from the first attack. The silly oracle immediately ran up and popped a happy stick on me to wake me up. Gee, thanks. So I went total defense and stood up, figuring I'll either have a shot at retreating or get AoO'd (without shocking grasp) back down to neither-dead-nor-a-target. The latter is what happened, and I slumped to the ground while saying "Don't heal me again!"
Seriously folks, aside from crits against 1st-level PCs, the most frequent cause of death (at tables I've seen) is healing an unconscious ally. Don't do it unless the alternative is death from bleeding.
Anyway, with three of us down, the witch managed to get off an Evil Eye hex, cackling to keep it going. Followed up with a successful hold person. The elf then approached with an ECB, and on his turn before the CdG, Dalsine missed his save by 1... Thank you, Evil Eye! Saved us from a TPK.
Fun bit of irony: as a diviner, my PC has see invisibility prepared every day in his bonus slot. I knew OOC that it would help, but had no IC reason to cast it. I went down with it still prepared.
Henceforth, any time that particular PC encounters an illusion that might be a decoy, his first course of action will be to cast see invisibility. Fool me once... ;)
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Seriously folks, aside from crits against 1st-level PCs, the most frequent cause of death (at tables I've seen) is healing an unconscious ally. Don't do it unless the alternative is death from bleeding.There is no AoO against someone who gets healed and just lays there and moans. ;)
No AoO, but often an interest in making sure they "stay down this time".
In fact, the only death at the table of Scarlet Sun I ran this weekend was because someone healed the cleric. She was a target before, then she was awake again. Did you think the demon would focus on someone else while you hobbled off to the corner to get sorted? No, she's going to put you down again, but this time you don't have as much buffer between you and death.
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In fact, the only death at the table of Scarlet Sun I ran this weekend was because someone healed the cleric. She was a target before, then she was awake again. Did you think the demon would focus on someone else while you hobbled off to the corner to get sorted? No, she's going to put you down again, but this time you don't have as much buffer between you and death.
Good tactic, don't be the target called out in the Adversaries Tactics, so don't be any of the following
Spellcaster
Well armored
Cleric
There you go, as long as you are useless they will ignore you. ;)
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Chalfin Dalsine ended the life of Nef the Alchemist, his first mission for the Pathfinder Society, Conan the dwarven fighter nearly died as well, but was stabilized by a severely wounded Lyriah the healer. Rogar Stonehands was a non factor for most of the confrontation, but provided the necessary flanking opportunity for the Dwarven fighter Huckleberry to end the fight.
Death Toll 1/5
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Played and survived. I got critted down to -3 from the first attack. The silly oracle immediately ran up and popped a happy stick on me to wake me up. Gee, thanks. So I went total defense and stood up, figuring I'll either have a shot at retreating or get AoO'd (without shocking grasp) back down to neither-dead-nor-a-target. The latter is what happened, and I slumped to the ground while saying "Don't heal me again!"
Seriously folks, aside from crits against 1st-level PCs, the most frequent cause of death (at tables I've seen) is healing an unconscious ally. Don't do it unless the alternative is death from bleeding.
Anyway, with three of us down, the witch managed to get off an Evil Eye hex, cackling to keep it going. Followed up with a successful hold person. The elf then approached with an ECB, and on his turn before the CdG, Dalsine missed his save by 1... Thank you, Evil Eye! Saved us from a TPK.
Fun bit of irony: as a diviner, my PC has see invisibility prepared every day in his bonus slot. I knew OOC that it would help, but had no IC reason to cast it. I went down with it still prepared.
Henceforth, any time that particular PC encounters an illusion that might be a decoy, his first course of action will be to cast see invisibility. Fool me once... ;)
funny that, I did cast it when the female vanished, thus making my pc a target.
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I ran this scenario last night (Tier 1-2) and what I thought would be an epic battle turned into one of the easiest BBEG defeats I've ever seen.
Dalsine missed his chance to cause havoc when he surprised the party because of my crappy rolls. Next up, the Wizard cast Color Spray and I missed the save. 2 crits in a row then another solid attack later, Dalsine was an unconscious heap on the floor. So, this party of 5 level 1-2s dropped the guy in one round.
I was stunned. I mean, good for them, but I was so looking forward to seeing what Dalsine could do. Maybe next time. :-)
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Three out of five dead last night - a Walter PPK (partial party kill).
The story:
They decided to hop the wall in the back instead of go through the guards. Their fumblings (low stealths) attracted the dogs and, in turn, the guards anyway. Rather than clear them out, they hopped from the top of the wall to the back side of the building, and break in a window on the upper level.
This triggered the final fight. When Dalsine came out swinging, he dropped the bard (34 damage to a level 2 who was already wounded from dogs). This left the barbarian, deaf oracle, and inquisitor to fight him. The cavalier was still climbing over the wall. The inquisitor got a shot off, the barbarian threatened a crit but didn't confirm, and dropped Dalsine to 1.
That's one down.
The guards from before burst in the front (they had been running around), and opened fire, wounding some PCs. The dogs barked and started clawing up the building and the wall, hoping that someone would fall from the open window or off the wall -- readied action to attack the next hostile that comes into range. Dalsine goes again, drops the already wounded barbarian, he then five foots to break LOS for ranged attacks.
That's two down. Three to go.
The inquisitor says "the hell with this" and runs back out the window, easily clears the distance and heads down the wall. The cavalier makes it up the wall, sees combat going south, and retreats back down. The deaf oracles tries to leap the gap. Rolls a 1. Tries to catch himself as he falls. Rolls a 2. Four readied actions from hounds go off, and the deaf, child-like halfling is ripped apart.
And three down. Two alive. Dalsine alive.
So the bard stays dead, the oracle gets his body recovered, and the barbarian can't get his body recovered -- because he's level 1 and this was his second game.
Luckily everyone had a blast and was a good sport about the deaths. And they no know why chaining three fights in a row is a bad idea.
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ran it at 3-4.
final combat, the bard investigated the invisible thing casting spells in the corner, and was subsequently attacked. Dalsine critted the bard, with an empowered shocking grasp. 63 points of electricity damage + 17 points magical piercing damage. to a 3rd level bard. ( the party was 3, 3, 5, 5, so a solid table of 4. ).
Dalsine was then dropped the next round by the party's Magus in much the same way, but without a crit.
Had it not been a crit, the empowered shocking grasp would still have been around 31 electricity + 9 physical, enough to drop the bard to very close to death.
the party pooled some resources to have their friend raised, and he spent prestige to have the society remove the negative levels he suffered from.
and so the Dalsine total grows...
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Ran this at a convention last weekend on tier 1-2. This was my second time GM'ing Dalsine, and as I missed every attack roll for Chalfon the first time I played him I was eager to see how it would go with a lower tier.
The party gave Chalfon plenty of time to prepare himself as they tried to negotiate with his illusion. After several rounds of trying to talk to him (I kept doing the evil guy laugh) the party's cheliaxian inquisitor took a swing at the illusion with his mace, and in comes Chalfon.
First round, I roll up 3 and 4 for his attack, missing the party's halfling rogue. Then their wizard casts Daze, Chalfon fails his will save. His AC 23 is too much though, and no one hits him. Next round he's dazed, and takes a few hits, still leaving him almost 20 hit points.
Another round of misses, and then two consecutive hits on the level 2 halfling rogue, who took 30+ points of damage from two hits and a shocking grasp and dropped instantly dead with his CON 10. Immediately after the party's elven ranger, played by the dead halfling's player's wife, scores a crit on Chalfon, dropping him and ending the combat there.
1/4 killed by Chalfon, which was also my first kill as a gm. Everyone had fun, though, and the halfing's player took it really well.
Wouldn't recommend running this for first or second time ever PFS players at a convention, though, as they will miss most of what's going on at the Dalsine manor and will end up quite confused by what they just witnessed.
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Thread necro!
Had the displeasure of playing this scenario last night. Played at Tier 1-2, with a 7 person party. Mostly level 1 to 2, with my Barbarian/Monk who was 3.
Even with seven people, it was a difficult fight. Got hit with Shocking Grasp by the invisible Magus when I went into the manor. Lost half my hit points in that one hit (went from 30 hit points to 13). Couple of rounds later, I was unconcious. Failed the first stabilization check, made the next two (GM wanted us to keep rolling, so others wouldn't know if I stabilized).
The druid in the party had a badger, who hadn't been hit, so didn't rage. Finally when someone threw an alchemist fire, it got hit by the splash damage and started to rage. Kind of amusing.
Gunslinger and Rogue went on the balcony and peppered with range. Gunslinger was the one who was hitting reliably, thanks to hitting touch AC. Everyone else had trouble hitting.
I would have suggested everyone aid another the Barbarian with the Bardiche, but since I was unconcious, decided not to since I was, well, unconcious. :)
Final death toll: None (although I was at -9, with a 14 CON).
Only thing surprising? Thought this was at least a season 3+ scenario, and was surprised to see it's a season 2. Go figure.
Mental note: next character to build will be a healbot cleric with healing out the wazoo :)
EDIT: Amusing idea for a Pathfinder Shirt:
"I survived the Dalsine Affair and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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When I played this as a player it got a bit nasty.. but given what we'd already run into it went fairly well.
We had a paladin with us, my wizard was worried about some fireballs (recent scenarios had introduced that to her.. so she communal resist energy'd everyone, along with a few other communal buffs (evil, darkvision if I recall). The group walked in. Watched Dalsine lose his head.
Then we get hit with the fireball and between the resistance/saves pretty much didn't take a point. (think the barb/Alchemist took 3 points) The cleric goes 'Here.. this will help' cast silence on the Paladin..who rushes up to fight the Magus.
That single move is most likely why it went from the slaughter I've heard to the multiround beat down it turned into (I think the fight lasted like 8 -9 rounds). I know that he took a beating from my wizard but two shot the eidolon (and courtesy of Vamp touch..healed as well). The best my wizard did was when I moved from burning arc to chain of perdition. That kept him off balance while the melee guys beat six types of snot out of him.
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Venture-Agent, Texas—Houston
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The 3-4 tier claimed 2 more victims today, as both a ranger and a playtest swashbuckler fell to spellstrikes from Chalfon.
Details on the playtest forums.
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On my first run of the game Chalfon lost initiative, so when his first attack dropped no one (I chose the sturdiest target and left him at 1 HP) the team rocket-tagged poor Dalsine (they all rolled well and the battle cleric had just laid down his std. "at the door" buffs).
In the second game Dalsine confirmed TWO CONSECUTIVE shcoking grasp crits. Should have been two deaths, but I messed up on damage dice, rolling only 1d6 on shocking grasp, no 1d6 PER CASTER LEVEL. So I'm a subconscious softie, but I'll hold off running it for a while.
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On my first run of the game Chalfon lost initiative, so when his first attack dropped no one (I chose the sturdiest target and left him at 1 HP) the team rocket-tagged poor Dalsine (they all rolled well and the battle cleric had just laid down his std. "at the door" buffs).
I played in that first group that Derek ran. I guess we didn't know how lucky we were...I remember thinking this seemed like a pretty easy boss fight. Also, at Tier 1, it may be a little easier? Maybe DM Derek just protected us...
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@Tristan - I picked the "wrong" target for Dalsine to shock first. looking back at the thread, I used corrosive touch instead of shocking grasp. 4d4 instead of 4d6 was enough to keep Telurion up, even if it was a "mistake" on my part. Your group had several solid melee warrior too.
In the second game, Dalsine got to go twice before anyone. And I rolled 4d6+2 instead of 10d6+2 on the crits. It still dropped a couple players and should have killed them. Having an alchemist helped that group too, because AC's over 20 are darn hard to hit at low levels.
Still, I've seen PC's with an AC of 20 at level 1 or 2, so why not the bad guys?
I guess I need to play this game to see if I'd make it through...
One death at Tier 6-7, party of 5 (cleric, rogue, rogue/wiz, monk, and a fighter). Fighter died after being put down twice. No one in our party could touch Dalsine due to bad rolls and his 28 AC. Except the monk, who rolled terribly for damage.
The four living ended up retreating and barely making it out.
I wouldn't say that I had a bad time, and I don't at all mind player death, but I think the reason why this feels a little "cheap" is because so much of it is out of the players' hands. If they do everything right and the GM rolls even half-way decent, one or more characters will probably die. Which, okay, I guess. But the reason that they'll die is largely because of some pre-attack buffing that they have virtually (or in one case literally) zero chance to prevent from happening, and a hugely damaging attack that they have (due to the story design) a rather small chance of not triggering.
I am envious of the groups who managed to shut down Dalsine with stuff like Slumber and Color Spray, what with his beefy saves.
If our GM had rolled just a little better, it could have easily been a TPK or close.
Dalsine's crit threat in the higher tier is absurd.
I love how he's such a stock version of his class, with nothing from all the splatbooks that players have access to.
-Matt
Give me 9th level, time to set up an elaborate trap (equivalent to say, I don't know, three different spells) that a group would have little chance of avoiding, already employed pre-combat buffs, etc., and there aren't many classes that wouldn't be able to take out at least one PC, without relying on splat.
It's not that this encounter is dangerous, it's that the BBEG gets so much situational advantage in a way that doesn't (to me) seem remotely realistic in-game.
Just my opinion, obviously.
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Did you guys cast your buff spells? The scene gives you plenty of warning about which room the encounter is going to take place in.
The PCs have situational advantage in knowing exactly where the encounter is going to take place, and they get full control over when to enter the room. Did your party not use your situational advantage?
Just thought I'd throw that out there.
-Matt
Did you guys cast your buff spells?
Not the optimal ones in hindsight, but some.
The scene gives you plenty of warning about which room the encounter is going to take place in.
The PCs followed Pasha to the room, bypassing the guards out front. They had no idea where the armor was, or that the encounter would be in that room as opposed to another one in the mansion.
The PCs have situational advantage in knowing exactly where the encounter is going to take place
How do the PCs know this? It's a big ass house. Sure, the assassination takes place in one room, but the armor was not visible from the windows, implying it was or at least could be elsewhere in the house.
I'm not arguing to argue, just genuinely curious.
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Played this with levels 3-4 I think.
Well Dalsine was kicking our butts all around his living room. We could not do anything to him as he annihilated us, two of us in the low single digits, everyone at at most half hit points. Rogue lights a firework. She had bought the 100gp fire work from We Be Goblins at level 1.
We go...that really wont help!
Our Alchemist goes deeply unconscious next round.
Fire work goes off, and screams right into combat exploding. Dalsine fails reflex AND fort, is blinded and deafened, plus stunned 1 round, I am blinded, Magus is Deafened, neither of us are stunned.
Dalsine sits there, blinded and deafened as we wail on him for a turn for free, finally downing him the turn after when he fails to cast due to deafened.
FIREWORKS! THEY SAVE LIVES!
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From what I've gathered there's a significant amount of variation on this fight that can really affect its difficulty:
- whether the GM grants a perception check to hear Chalfon buffing up(by my math its a whopping DC 2 perception). There should also be a check to notice him as he moves into position (20+his stealth, which isn't wonderful).
- When the GM asks for initiative rolls. If initiative is rolled before Chalfon buffs, the fight becomes easier as the PCs can buff, use the total defense action, etc.
-How much of the terrain is deemed difficult terrain. Stairs, Jacquo, furniture could all be difficult.
There's also a lot of other details that a GM has to run correctly or the fight becomes a lot more difficult. Concentration checks, acrobatics, difficult terrain, and squeezing (his initial position looks like it should be a squeeze) can all make Chalfon's life a little more difficult.
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Now that I have the module in front of me, I can better answer your questions, pjacobs.
How do the PCs know this? It's a big ass house. Sure, the assassination takes place in one room, but the armor was not visible from the windows, implying it was or at least could be elsewhere in the house.
It's worth noting that the Pasha is never visible to the PCs before they meet her in the foyer. What this means is that the duel between the Pasha and her opponent is most certainly going on before the PCs enter the room. There is a very clear cue for the party to prepare for an encounter, the sound of the duel between the Pasha and her opponent, with Chalfon laughing maniacally.
So, we have established a very clear cue for the party to burn all their buff spells. I distinctly remember suggesting that my own party hold a moment and prepare.
Early seasons were plagued by final encounters in which a fully-buffed party would somehow manage to always get the jump on an unprepared final combat. The PCs got to buff beforehand, but the NPCs didn't. The Dalsine Affair changed this dynamic by addressing the inequality of combat preparation that the campaign was suffering from.
It's also worth noting that Chalfon has expended his buff spells in response to the combat that is occurring in his foyer. His cue to prepare is incredibly realistic in-game.
-Matt
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Just ran this - opening crit for 57 HP damage on a level 3 cleric at tier 3-4. Ouch.
Second round, he got a 20 HP hit on a level 3 monk, which wasn't quite enough to knock him down to unconscious. But the monk and druid's pet flanked him and took 3 attacks each (monk flurried and spent a ki, kitty had bite/claw/claw), which was enough to knock him out before his turn in the 3rd round.
So 1 dead PC, my first in this scenario (I ran it once before with no casualties).
I do feel bad killing PCs at level 3. That's just the level where they can't easily afford to get raised, but they've invested enough in their PC that they don't want to lose it. The group chipped in to get him raised, but it hurt.
On an interesting side note, my PCs did something completely unexpected before entering Dalsine Manor. They saw the argument between the guards and Pasha's men out front, and they decided to send an invisible PC to go sneak into Pasha's carriage to see what was up. That was new and different.
I figured all the guards were on one side of the carriage, closest to the entrance, so he could get in the door on the other side pretty easily while invisible. Upon finding it empty, they realized Pasha must have snuck into the manor herself, and they then proceeded with the very normal plan of climbing over the back wall while the guards were distracted.
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Hear me, brothers, for I have returned from the Boneyard with a story to tell!
Our quest began innocuous enough as we herded the pitiful servants into the underground without meeting the warriors of Oppara. And yet even my mighty vision did not detect the monstrous vermin in the shadows. I was struck by fang and afflicted with a horrible venom!
Befitting a NOBLE SCION OF THE EFREETI, many of my allies attempted to tend to my wounds, but even my own wand refused my commands. Truly, this ichor was potent, enough to even cause my vision to fade. I recall my lovely companion Sarah being blessed with the POWER OF THE EFREETI, scorching the beast to ash, and then with a mighty surge I burned the toxin from my body!
Weakened as I was, still we pressed forward to the temple in which the servants thought themselves safe. HOWEVER, a beast stalked amongst them, attempting to confound us all with lies and half-truths. Even as I bestowed THE MIGHT OF THE EFREETI upon my companions, the monster did strike them down. It was then that Bocephus, my ally of the forest, produced his mighty monkey, and we laid the foe low.
In proper gratitude and obeisance, the servants procured a potion to bolster my ravaged constitution and so we strode forth to meet this Chalfon Dalsine. His guards bent to our combined will AS BEFITS THEIR PLACE, and thus we entered Dalsine Manor.
The sights we witnessed are well known to all, I know, and our mighty warriors leaped into the fray. I moved to call the STRENGTH OF THE EFREETI upon them once again and thus was my undoing! The traitorous worm struck from his glamor whilst I was distracted, the element of sky coursing through his blade and severing my life from this plane.
Beyond this, I remember little. I am told the mighty simian laid Chalfon low in vengeance, and my companions carried my mortal form to the temple where I awoke, stronger and wiser from my ordeal!
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"My condolences, noble Able. At least your companions were able to get you to a temple where they could bring you back from that dark fate. Having visited Pharasma's Boneyard twice myself, and seen too many Pathfinder companions go there, I can relate. At this rate, when I take my final rest, I think Pharasma will welcome me as an old friend."
"At least your sacrifice helped buy the time your companions needed to kill that villain, Chalfon Dalsine."
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Praise be, my brother is returned to our NOBLE QUEST! I only regret that I have yet to achieve the heights of our NOBLE EFREETI ANCESTORS power and could not pluck him from the Boneyard myself. The Brothers Elish shall continue on our path with the blessings of our GLORIOUS PATHFINDER SOCIETY, undeterred by inconsequential setbacks such as these.
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Just ran this for the 3rd time tonight, and got my 2nd PC kill.
This is only my 4th PC death in 80+ tables as a PFS GM. Oddly, the other two were both in level 1 evergreen scenarios. Ledford with a greataxe crit is no surprise, but the other was a truly unexpected one in Consortium Compact.
But here's the twist: It wasn't Dalsine that killed the PC. It was the faceless stalker. My dice were just hot that fight, and he was smart enough to attack a flat footed PC to get his 3d6 sneak dice (at subtier 3-4). Against a level 3 alchemist, the fact that I hit both times, with a crit on the second attack, was lethal. Luckily, the alchemist is a Scarab Sage, so he is now Risen.
My dice went cold by the time they hit the final fight, so Dalsine was relatively easy for them, even down a man (party of 6 to start).
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Ran this last weekend and Chalfon is still claiming lifes.
Tier 3-4 with 4 players
Round 1 - Crits the ranged warpriest wth shocking grasp. Kills her outright so he 5' steps and hits the PC magus. She wasn't wearing metal armor which means that...
Round 2 - Hits the PC magus with Empowered shocking grasp and drops him far into the negatives (would have been dead without the Retail Incentive Program). 5' steps and crits the monk for about 12 HP.
At this point the party was thinking "looks like a TPK." The only reason it wasn't was:
Round 1 - PC magus crits Chalfon right back with a shocking grasp. Does 47 (of his 48) hp damage.
Round 2 - After missing with his first two attacks (and seeing what happened to the others) the monk is about to spend a ki point for AC. The rest of the party talks him into taking another attack instead. He connects and drops Chalfon.