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Hey Levis/Jeff Erwin: Fantastic work on this thread.
Of course I'm going to ask the annoyingly pertinent question. Is this stuff compiled somewhere? Ready for, or already published? Keep up the good work...
I have a setting for PF that sees some work occasionally called A Thousand Gods, set in a fantasy India that is a fair bit closer to the RW than Vudra. It emerged from this thread, but is currently dormant.
The Mythic Rules set for PF would be an important component of depicting that setting, so I'm kinda waiting on it. The other half of it is that I am a freelancer, so I've repeatedly dropped work on it to pick up work for pay.
The web supplement to Wizard's 3.0 Oriental Adventures had a Indian setting that might be good for ideas...
So here is my rendition of the Asura, Raktavija. This was used in a recent game (on Monday) to great effect. The only thing I had to nerf was the fact that it originally had fast healing 2, which ended up being a little too much in the encounter I ran. It was a Hard Encounter for five players at level 4 (CR 6 with a total of six raktavijas).
Other than the fast healing, it was fairly balanced for the players, with AoE Spells and Melee guys shining a bit, while the two archers was in a little trouble, but nothing insurmountable. Even keeping track of the clones was easy, although remembering to set off the clones takes some reminding.
At the moment, only weapons sets off the Blood Seed ability. I am unsure if I want spells to be able to do it. We'll have to see. Anyways, what do you all think? I do plan on flavor text eventually, but I was pressed for time to make this.
Interesting & cool.
The original is known as Raktabija more often than Sanskrit form, though in the original legend, Kali is necessary because the demon is unconquerable by anyone else (1 drop of blood = a thousand clones). She stops the cloning by licking the blood up as it falls with her long tongue, while Durga dispatches the original. Perhaps a reference to the blood actually having to land on the earth to spawn a clone? Who knows; maybe someone will figure out an improvised solution that takes advantage of it.
Raktabija is usually depicted carrying a heavy sword or maul and a round shield. See here.
Thanks. I had spent a long time trying to figure out the blood spattering to earth part. Was really difficult and didn't have enough time before my game to really flesh that part out, so I simply made it weapons that were non-good and/or non-cold iron. I'll have to revisit it someday.
Admittedly, I didn't know about the maul as the only picture I saw of them has a paint with them carrying discs (probably a shield now that you mention it) and I thought they were chakrams. And admittedly, I did try to keep my own spin on it so it wasn't a complete copy of the mythology. I really liked the chakrams. They added a lot of flavor to these minions with a weapon that is semi-familiar while still being very exotic.
They did work really well in the end though, and I plan on using them as well as my finished Danavasura. Will be great for my campaign setting (mostly Indo-European culture, so a lot of Slavic, Middle Eastern, and Indian/Tibetean mythology).
Interesting, definitely didn't know that. Might have to give them a weapon since it'd be weird if they have the weapon of one of their mortal enemies
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Back home (in a manner of speaking) again!
I've been continuing to work on A Thousand Gods, though slowly, as I have 3pp work that actually pays to do...
Anyway, I do plan on running it in combo with Logue's Razor Coast as a mythic India and Indian Ocean campaign.
Though I'm not sure how realistic/historical to make it. The overall 17th-18th century vibe of RC inclines me to model the Mughal Empire, which is not the time period of my current draft (early middle ages).
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Repostan in the appropriate thread. :)
Which job are you referring to, Mikaze? The one where they entertain people in Svarga, or the one where they seduce ascetics whose accumulation of tapas (yogic heat/mana) is so great as to threaten the Deva's ascendency?
Then again, being reborn as an apsara is possible (as a reward), and they aren't true immortals (only the Devas, who drink the amrita (ambrosia) are deathless in this age) - they eventually do die and are reborn according to their merit.The latter "running interference on ascetics" one. It's just seems like it could be played in so many ways that makes the upper planes a bit more lively, like being azatas whose purpose is to keep archons grounded(if one plays it as a necessary bit of chaos to prevent [i]too[/u] much law overriding good), or fey who have an affinity to ascetics, or something found almost exclusively in Nirvana itself tying into the ascension of mortals and outsiders alike, possibly with a connection to Korada.
Whichever way they go, I'm eager to see the direction Pathfinder takes with them. :)
Also, will be grabbing A Thousand Gods as soon as it's available!
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Now, on Apsaras.
For my world, which is closer to RW legend and myth than Vudra will be, the Apsaras are Celestial Fey who are mechanically identical to nymphs, but substitute bard spells and caster levels for the druid spells of the original. They can also fly, rather than having Wild Empathy.
There's no First World in A Thousand Gods, however, so the difference between Celestial planes and the Fey world is non-existent.
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So, in general, I think apsaras are CG. They serve the Devas - particularly Indra, the lusty king of the gods - more or less as his nauch girls and as his anti-ascetic police.
Kind of an interesting image.
They have a tendency to seduce men and then hop out of the bed/bower/wherever and disappear into the night. Sometimes they have kids, but they tend to find a wetnurse/adoptive mother. They aren't particularly responsible creatures.
But they aren't stupid, either; this is more the tawaif style courtesan, musical, poets, dancers, conversationalists. And they are carved everywhere in India - even on Buddhist temples - as symbols of the abundance and joy of the physical world and the Earth. (Even though the Buddha was not a materialist, the Earth itself (in the form of a beautiful woman in most sculptures) came to his aid when the demon Mara threatened him on the brink of nirvana).
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Repostan in the appropriate thread. :)
Also, will be grabbing A Thousand Gods as soon as it's available!Which job are you referring to, Mikaze? The one where they entertain people in Svarga, or the one where they seduce ascetics whose accumulation of tapas (yogic heat/mana) is so great as to threaten the Deva's ascendency?
Then again, being reborn as an apsara is possible (as a reward), and they aren't true immortals (only the Devas, who drink the amrita (ambrosia) are deathless in this age) - they eventually do die and are reborn according to their merit.The latter "running interference on ascetics" one. It's just seems like it could be played in so many ways that makes the upper planes a bit more lively, like being azatas whose purpose is to keep archons grounded(if one plays it as a necessary bit of chaos to prevent [i]too[/u] much law overriding good), or fey who have an affinity to ascetics, or something found almost exclusively in Nirvana itself tying into the ascension of mortals and outsiders alike, possibly with a connection to Korada.
Whichever way they go, I'm eager to see the direction Pathfinder takes with them. :)
Well, they're probably CG. Hence they might have something to do with Elysium and/or Sinashakti or Valani (both names sound kind of South Asian, actually). And shakti = divine femaleness in Sanskrit.
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That has me wondering if Chronicles of the Righteous will have something to play them into now. :)
The "Celestial Fey" approach feels very right for them, I think.
(now I'm pondering a possible love/rivalry relationship between an apsara of that design and a samsaran monk across several of his/her lifetimes. Man, the stories that could come out of that.)
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That has me wondering if Chronicles of the Righteous will have something to play them into now. :)
The "Celestial Fey" approach feels very right for them, I think.
(now I'm pondering a possible love/rivalry relationship between an apsara of that design and a samsaran monk across several of his/her lifetimes. Man, the stories that could come out of that.)
Hmm... well, the apsaras (like the dakinis, and their male counterparts, the gandharvas, for that matter) can feel detached love, compassionate love, or unfixated love, but once they get into the realm of ego-based love - jealous, all-consuming love, they would fall.
The Esoteric Buddhists believed, through the dakinis, that even eros and desire could be transmuted into detached enlightenment. Hence, the right kind of monk could form a partnership (not an exclusive relationship) with an apsara or dakini as a part of understanding and reconciling his or her sexuality with ego-less compassion. But that may not be what you mean...Apsaras that did seduce rishis and other renouncers generally didn't form long-term relationships because the renouncers saw such entanglements as a fall from grace. They would be shamed and penitent for their failure.
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That's pretty close to the relationship that came to mind. Something along the lines of an apsara purposefully challenging an ascetic to achieve a sort of healthy balance. Probably something that would be touch-and-go over a very long period of time though, along with some other ideas from the parallel discussion in the Homosexuality in Golarion thread.
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What's interesting about the antagonism between apasaras and brahmacharya (sexual continence) is that there's some who think that the apsaras represent a relic of the Indus Valley Civilization, a priestesshood centred on ritual tanks and qedeshah-like sacred sexuality. The resistance of the (Indo-European) priesthood is a resistance derived from fundamentally different ideas about magical and sacred power.
See this article.
Always loved reading about the difficult-to-pin-down and even-harder-to-translate Indus civilization, even more when mentioned in the back notes of one of the Neveronya books as inspiration. Very intriguing, enticing and weird place and time. I'll be clicking that link momentarily...
How goeth Thousand Gods Jeff? Still piggybacking Mythic Rules? Does sound like the goto ruleset for Mythic India. I can also see why you might consider a Razor Coast style Mughal dynasty approach. Both? ;)
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Always loved reading about the difficult-to-pin-down and even-harder-to-translate Indus civilization, even more when mentioned in the back notes of one of the Neveronya books as inspiration. Very intriguing, enticing and weird place and time. I'll be clicking that link momentarily...
How goeth Thousand Gods Jeff? Still piggybacking Mythic Rules? Does sound like the goto ruleset for Mythic India. I can also see why you might consider a Razor Coast style Mughal dynasty approach. Both? ;)
Mythic makes sense for it, without question. My main obstacle, actually, is paying work, since it takes up a lot of my limited free time.
The Mughal Empire has a lot more in common with Golarion's Vudra than the period I use in A Thousand Gods. In part, that's because the Mughal period is the most familiar "medieval/renaissance India" trope we have. They were in charge when Europe found a water route there, after all.
But the early middle ages (c.600-900) are an equally interesting period, at from the perspective of the flowering of Indian magical traditions (yoga, tantra), art (bhakti poetry), the first major contact with Islam, the Journey to the West, and the Grail legends. It's also less well known so I have more freedom to change things and present a semi-historical setting. So it was where I started.
But the Mughal Empire does have the awesome Rajput and Mughal fortresses, the Taj Mahal, cannons and jezails, and the European enclaves... It also saw the first appearance of the Thuggee.
I think, time allowing, I will present several "eras" for the book - a Mahabharata period, a Early Medieval period, and a Mughal period.
Though, speaking of add-on rules sets, if the psychic/psionics rules that Paizo develops make sense, that would be great.
But the notion of psychic India is really a Western concept - I've found that different rules aren't necessary, because magic is magic. And the whole mesmerism/astral thing is not that big a deal. The main difference being that Indian yogis saw magical effects as part of a physical discipline rather than a purely intellectual pursuit.
@Jeff: Wow! Just read (I skimmed the more scholarly bits on Fish symbols) the article you linked. Fascinating stuff, and I'm amazed the Indus script still eludes translation. Makes for so many beautiful hypotheses.
I particularly enjoyed the section on sacred tanks (and the pic of the Great Temple at Mohenjodaro) and the temple dancers - ideas like these and the devadasi were direct inspiration for my Temple Dancer.
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Just found The Alchemical Body: Siddha Traditions in Medieval India by David Gordon Whitefor $5 at a used bookstore.
Score!
It's a well-written scholarly book on rasa (fluids/elixirs) in Tantric magic/alchemy, which has strong parallels with Western traditions, though the metaphors of conjunction and synthesis are a bit more literal.
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Speaking of other threads:
Now, my inclination in general is to depict myth, folklore, and history in an interesting sort of one pot meal. This is why A Thousand Gods is halfway between say, Midgard and Ars Magica in its realism and relationship to history.
Yet, as time goes on, in RW India, except for the 19th c.-present, the status of women (and others) declines. And my pseudo-historical campaign in 17th c. India/Madagascar would have no women except captives and wives unless I strenuously correct it. Which I'm doing.
But it does make the early middle ages and before, and the Victorian era and later, more attractive in making the game friendly to female gamers.
India does have a deeply problematic relationship to gender (though in different ways than we do). Part of the trouble is this erosion of rights and power, one which is more ebbed than retreating even today. It's troubling to study and depict a world which moves away from egalitarianism and tolerance toward zenanas and prudery.
It was that very problem that led me to depict an older, non-Renaissance India in my default setting.
Dottin the daylights out of this stuff. Six pages is a lot to read. But I'll get to it (hopefully, as this looks awesome).
Cool, and in keeping with a druidic society, somewhere...
Absolutely cool. Another nice link Jeff!!
So, hey, has anyone mentioned the Mahasarpa Campaign web enhancement for the old 3.0 Oriental Adventures? Because that might have some nifty ideas in it. (I'm afraid I don't recall everything on this thread.)
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So, hey, has anyone mentioned the Mahasarpa Campaign web enhancement for the old 3.0 Oriental Adventures? Because that might have some nifty ideas in it. (I'm afraid I don't recall everything on this thread.)
Yeah, it's come up a few times. It's interesting, but pretty much is a reskinning of Rokugan with the Yuan-ti as villains.
So far, there's only been two professional attempts to publish Indian fantasy settings: Mindshadows (Green Ronin), which is a Psionics-heavy setting, and the OSR [i]Arrows of Indra{/i]. I have some critical comments on the Arrows of Indra forum, but it's the closest thing so far.
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Illustrations of Hindu Gods...
Pretty High-Fantasyish. And yes, they have all have crazy magic weapons. It's one of their attributes.
This is awesome!
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Illustrations of Hindu Gods...
Pretty High-Fantasyish. And yes, they have all have crazy magic weapons. It's one of their attributes.
Narahimsa is cool, a lion-headed dude with a mane of peacock feathers?
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Illustrations of Hindu Gods...
Pretty High-Fantasyish. And yes, they have all have crazy magic weapons. It's one of their attributes.
Narahimsa is cool, a lion-headed dude with a mane of peacock feathers?
Narasimha (Man-lion) is an avatar of Vishnu. He erupted out of a column in the palace of the Asura Hiranyakapishu to protect the Asura's own son Prahlada, a devout worshipper of Vishnu, whose father had become enraged at his son's piety. Prahlada later becomes one of the rulers/jailors of the Hells.
The peacock feathers are not in traditional depictions (and sometimes he is a tiger, not a lion-man). Instead his head is surrounded by a fiery halo or the many heads of the Naga Ananda.
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BTW, India just recognised the third gender (something the Sanskrit language did implicitly, so it's less of a cultural leap, though mainly for intellectuals. Actual day-to-day languages sometimes lost or never had this nuance). Nepal recognised the gender in 2011.
The Sanskrit term is tritiya-prakriti - "third nature." The male or female (female is the default) pronouns are used based on whether the individual is expressing male or female gender norms (i.e., in the Kama Sutra and Kama Shastra), so the language doesn't really provide a non-dichotemy there. Note that Indian languages and pre-modern culture, like that of Greece and Rome, tends to indicate sexuality by activity rather than orientation (orientation wasn't as emphasised in their culture).
There are more or less negative terms that are taken as equivalent, such as kliba, vadhri, which both mean eunuch, but that may or may not be true for the third gendered person. (Note that the Kama Sutra and Shastra identify male homosexuals as male-pronouned persons in the female category).
Messy, but at least observant of difference.
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Dotting. This just might be my favorite thread on all of Paizo Forums.
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So far, there's only been two professional attempts to publish Indian fantasy settings: Mindshadows (Green Ronin), which is a Psionics-heavy setting, and the OSR Arrows of Indra{/i]. I have some critical comments on the Arrows of Indra forum, but it's the closest thing so far.What about Sahasra? They gave fantasy India a shot...
Sahasra - yeah. It's OK. The game world is sketched out - and the sourcebooks (pdf only) are essentially adaptations of RW Indian religions and folklore, with a strong bent towards modern orthodoxy. Not that that's bad, it's just very little to go on. As I recall, the publisher kinda went under, so perhaps it never had a chance to blossom. It's kind of like the old D&D Indian material - scattered in books and Dragon magazine - never enough to run something. If you're interested in running a PF or 3.5 game in real world India, the Sahasra stuff is worth getting.
There's also GURPS India, which never came out. The draft circulates around the internet, though. That was crippled by a very specific religious viewpoint (orthodox Vaishnavism), in my opinion, as well as some caste/racism issues. Caste (and race) in India is as much a hot potato as race is in America, for similar reasons. Arrows of Indra makes some of the same mistakes.
If Paizo takes on Vudra, they will have to present a world which is authentically fantasy South Asian and also shows Golarion's overall themes of heroism and magic rather than, say, racial and gender inequality and religious hatred.
In my own setting, I picked a historical (sorta) India (8th-9th c) that had not been afflicted as badly with these problems as the later medieval and modern India. Hence, there are problems with gender, but they aren't insurmountable - Indian folklore had female and third-gender heroes and warriors - and religious conflict tends to be political rather than based on bigotry. The region is riven by war and Machiavellian statecraft, but not xenophobia. Kinda like the Hellenistic era in the West.
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Is your setting available somewhere, or is it still a WIP? (I somewhat dread digging through 6 pages worth of posts; I only just saw this thread today)
:)
fwiw, There is another non-PF/ non-D&D3.x India project underway (published under OGL, iirc), Against the Dark Yogi.
It is a WIP. It's also nearly 300 pages long…
The idea of a "Dark Yogi" and so forth is really frustrating to me. The themes explored in that project simplify Indian cosmology and religion in ways that really reflect a one-sided view of the whole issue of creation and destruction.
In Indian pop culture, the "dark yogi" figure is usually a Tantrika following the Left-handed Way. The characteristic Tantrika villain is usually a sort of magician who worships Shiva and Kali as embodiments of black magic. In Western pop culture - i.e., the Temple of Doom, the same sort of character appears. It's deeply intolerant of a real religion. (It's along the lines of how Wicca was seen in the '80s). I have sympathies with Tantric beliefs because of their rejection of caste, gender roles, and rigid tradition, so I freely admit a certain personal take here.
Now, real yogis were historically a mixed bunch, but most of the more villainous ones were amoral mercenaries, rather than trying to destroy the world. The wheel of karma is such that the world will be destroyed and reborn whether or not anyone takes a specific action, at least in traditional cosmology; that's the definition of "dharma." In other words, chaos and law needn't be associated with good or evil.
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I can certainly appreciate all you've shared here. I have also heard similar mixed opinions from members of my wife's family (her father is Hindu, from India); it sparked a rather heated discussion between him and two of her uncles; apparently even within 'the same' religion (ie., they all claim the same beliefs and such) there are disagreements regarding what yogis are like, light & dark, chaos & order, good & evil, etc.
I was simply tossing it out as someone's take on it; whether anyone agrees or disagrees is another matter entirely.
Of course, it is also difficult (foolhardy?) to 'boil down' an entire subcontinent's cultural and religious traditions into 'one' thing (regardless of how you define it).
'Pan-Indian' is just as inaccurate for India as the 'Pan-Indian' system called (ironically enough) 'Native American Spirituality' (which, ironically enough is only 'influenced' by NA religions) is for Native Americans.
Thus, focusing on a specific time and/or region is by far the best way to go.
Yeah, that's why my setting has 26 cultures and 50+ gods. And it's a massive simplification. "Hinduism" is more of a category of religions and beliefs than an organised system; the variety within it is much greater than in Christianity, as I'm sure you've gleaned. Even basic theology and cosmology is highly controversial, though most people just agree to disagree. Some varieties are even monotheistic (as in Indonesia and among the Hari Krishnas).
This sort of thing is difficult to present in PF, as the gods are self-evidently real; to work, they have to be able to have aspects and natures that are closed to conventional clerical spells and divinations, and hence are the subject of theory and speculation.
Another Indian setting is the island domain of Sri Raji in TSR's Ravenloft. The module RM3 Web of Illusion is set there and involves lots of fantasy India trope stuff (rakshasa, Ravanna, Kali, thugee, tigers, caste system).
Also from 2e TSR Lends and Lore has resource material that can be used for a fantasy India.
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Another Indian setting is the island domain of Sri Raji in TSR's Ravenloft. The module RM3 Web of Illusion is set there and involves lots of fantasy India trope stuff (rakshasa, Ravanna, Kali, thugee, tigers, caste system).
Also from 2e TSR Lends and Lore has resource material that can be used for a fantasy India.
Both are very "old school" in the worst way, if I may be straight about it. It's all very surface: Kali figures as a big evil goddess, which would be kinda news to a lot of Bengalis and tantrikas. Thags worshipped Kali because she was a goddess worshipped in her culture, and she is the goddess of death because that is a part of time, her nature.
A lot of gamers would be surprised to learn that even in the Ramayana, there are good or neutral Rakshasas, along with evil ones. Many people in Sri Lanka and southern India interpret them as their ancestors or counterparts and see them as heroes or as flawed ordinary people.
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I would think a majority of the Vudrani gods would be neutral in nature, having both good and evil aspects necessary to life.
Maybe. One of the characteristics of Hinduism (and Tantric Buddhism), particularly Shaivism and Shaktism, is that the apparently evil nature of gods or beings is often a reflection of our limited awareness. The world-destroying nature of Shiva, for example, is explained as a simple part of his connection to time and entropy; we, as mortal beings, can't help but be afraid of such ideas, so we think of them as evil. In essence, there is no good or evil on a divine or metaphysical level; these are aspects of our own moral natures that have no relevance to cosmic forces. Or that reconciliation to the cosmic cycle and union with the godhead is the "ultimate good" but not one that has a great deal to do with morality except in so much as adherence to self-discipline and modelling one's self on a god is good.
Zurvanism in Persia was similar.
This tends to be incompatible with PF cosmology (and detect alignment spells), however. So it's likely that major deities in Vudra when it's visited by Paizo will be True Neutral. Another significant difference is in the eternal nature of the South Asian cosmos; PF has a beginning and implicitly an end, as a world invented by Westerners.
Now Vaishnaivism does argue that the cosmos is innately good and Vishnu is a good being. He still has a world-destroying aspect, however (Kalki).
I think the most "Indian" of PF deities is actually Pharasma, not Irori.
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Perhaps the answer is that if your creative tastes lean toward "old school" gaming it is culturally sensitive to rename elements in an India-themed or India-flavored campaign setting so that you can distance it from the real India. If you wish to portray Kali as a big evil goddess in your campaign, then you should rename the goddess and make other creative changes so that you can distance your fictional goddess from Hindu belief. It should also be pointed out that Sri Raji, Vudra, and Mahasarpa are not historical or cultural simulations of India, but fictional countries in fantasy role-playing games heavily influenced by pulp magazines. Is the flavor of the campaign setting lost if Rakshasas are accurately portrayed as they are in belief with good and neutral alignments along with the evil ones?
Old School, pulp-style gaming, has its place. But it should be a self-aware place, as I think you are suggesting. When I started writing in this thread I was very fond of the pulp stuff, but my views have shifted a bit.
There is a fair bit of pulp-style India available for gaming; it's probably dominant, actually, over any other interpretation of South Asia. I think there's little need for more, at least from Paizo. Pulp India doesn't have a lot of depth, for one thing. It's all snake charmers, evil yogis, Kali, and tigers.
(And pulp-style Kali does have a counterpart in Golarion: Dhalavei. She's LE, unlike the old D&D Kali, who was CE, but is very similar).
Increasingly over the past few years, through really from the start, Paizo has actively self-critiqued itself on the basis that it is a pop culture presence. It has taken the view that gender, race, and sexuality are places where sensitivity and inclusiveness are to be deliberately fostered. So it's not likely that a purist pulp India - which tends to feature white women in distress - is going to work for them.
India has its own "pulp" traditions in Bollywood, which have their own baggage (i.e., the maligning of Tantric Hinduism and evil Englishmen).
Vudra is not India; however, it does stand for it in the same way that Osirion stands for Egypt. Saying otherwise is not really being honest with ourselves. The same was true of the D&D settings you mention, which even depicted HIndu gods by their real names. Renaming is also pretty problematic, since you can't fool people very much that way. My thinking is that Dhalavei, in any potential Vudra book, would have be made quite distinct from the old school Kali. This would mean greater creativity anyway.
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Legends & Lore does say in the "Introduction" that it is not a scholarly work and presents mythology in a way that is best suited to the needs of a Dungeon Master. It goes on to say that the many deities in the American Indian section are complete fabrications of the author intended to capture the spirit of the culture. They do not represent an accurate description of gods once worshiped by Native Americans.
(PS)
On this - technically, according to the OGL license, no real world, presently worshipped, deities should be used in OGL works.The reason is fairly obvious - it's patently offensive. It was a mistake, in my opinion, for D&D to present real religions in this manner. If one can't depict the religions in a broadly accurate way, they shouldn't be in the game, at least with alignments and game mechanics attached.
Several of my favourite games do depict RW religions - Pendragon, the World of Darkness games, and Ars Magica among them. They have to do so with a great deal of care. Because of the way divine magic works in d20/PF, there's a bit of a problem, because it tends to take the mystery and the theology out of things. So PF has a bit more issues depicting the complexity of belief than say, Call of Cthulhu, where it's pretty much up for interpretation.
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Gotta admit, Kali's portrayal throughout D&D's history has been frustrating from beginning to end. Even Planescape messed up there.
Really hoping Vudra avoids those pitfalls when its pantheon finally gets some spotlight time.
Yeah. Planescape defaulted to the old 2e pantheons, so the "Chinese pantheon" was ill-used as well.
Supposedly there's a thousand or more divinities in Vudra; there are numberless divinities in Hinduism, in part because many villages have their own goddess. These would probably be mid or lower-level Outsiders in PF, but they are Devis in India. Even outside of this there's a lot of room for our imaginations.
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Yeah. Planescape defaulted to the old 2e pantheons, so the "Chinese pantheon" was ill-used as well.Gotta admit, Kali's portrayal throughout D&D's history has been frustrating from beginning to end. Even Planescape messed up there.
Really hoping Vudra avoids those pitfalls when its pantheon finally gets some spotlight time.
That and the serial sexual predators and victim blamers of the Greek pantheon somehow get passed off as good Yeah, that set bugged me too. It's part of why a lot of the time having a fictional set of deities that evoke real world analogues seems to go down easier for me. Though I suppose if the analogues are too exactly, the unfortunate implications can still pop up.
Supposedly there's a thousand or more divinities in Vudra; there are numberless divinities in Hinduism, in part because many villages have their own goddess. These would probably be mid or lower-level Outsiders in PF, but they are Devis in India. Even outside of this there's a lot of room for our imaginations.
Could that qualify as a new outsider type, like [angel], [azata], [psychopomp], etc? Perhaps with a common trait like "multi-aspected"?