Improvised Weapons & Weapon Focus / Specialization


Rules Questions


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Can you take Weapon Focus (improvised weapons) and/or Weapon Specialization (improvised weapons)?

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Xarls Taunzund wrote:
Can you take Weapon Focus (improvised weapons) and/or Weapon Specialization (improvised weapons)?

Not unless you become proficient. the requirement for w. focus is "Proficiency with selected weapon", the problem is no one is proficient, even with throw anything or catch off guard since they both say " You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon" but never actually make you proficient


Technically, no, but unless there is some game balance problem that I'm not seeing, I don't know why it shouldn't be allowed. It's actually a pretty interesting character concept.

Dark Archive

Mynameisjake wrote:
Technically, no, but unless there is some game balance problem that I'm not seeing, I don't know why it shouldn't be allowed. It's actually a pretty interesting character concept.

it leads to people using weapons wrong on purpose to get more damage, especially with improvised weapon mastery. its not horribly broke or anything, but its kinda silly


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

wait... using a weapon wrong makes it deal more damage... what? Seriously though watch old kung fu movies, ladder, buckets, and chairs get used all the time to great effect. I think it is awesome.


Mynameisjake wrote:
Technically, no, but unless there is some game balance problem that I'm not seeing, I don't know why it shouldn't be allowed. It's actually a pretty interesting character concept.

I'm with this one. The Catch Off-Guard feat effectively gives you "proficiency" with improvised weapons, so if you wanted to take focus etc. for improvised weapons, I would allow that. It definitely sounds like a GREAT concept. One I was planning on using the next time I got to make a character.

Dark Archive

Tikael wrote:
wait... using a weapon wrong makes it deal more damage... what?

Hold a hammer backwards. Thats also improvising a weapon. if you're usind a weapon not the way its intended you can claim its improvised. Yes its stupid, but it can be argued quite well by some folks.

but to each their own i guess. To-may-toes, Toom-aht-oo's

Liberty's Edge

Xarls Taunzund wrote:
Can you take Weapon Focus (improvised weapons) and/or Weapon Specialization (improvised weapons)?

You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon. Unarmed opponents are flat-/footed against any attacks you make with an improvised melee weapon.

This could get WAYYY out of hand with a fighter who takes both imp improvised weapon and weapon focus/spec trees.

Is there a table anywhere that details what damage improvised weapons do? Or even what combat maneuvers can be done with them? There was one in complete warrior but for PF?

Dark Archive

Themetricsystem wrote:
Xarls Taunzund wrote:
Can you take Weapon Focus (improvised weapons) and/or Weapon Specialization (improvised weapons)?

You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon. Unarmed opponents are flat-/footed against any attacks you make with an improvised melee weapon.

This could get WAYYY out of hand with a fighter who takes both imp improvised weapon and weapon focus/spec trees.

Is there a table anywhere that details what damage improvised weapons do? Or even what combat maneuvers can be done with them? There was one in complete warrior but for PF?

i dont know of any chart, but its not horribly broken. figure you end up with 1 handed d8 19/x2 or light d6 19/x2, or maybe a two handed do 19/x2.

noting super bad, but you cant ever really deny them a weapon. every rock, stick, even the shackles you put them in, become a valuable weapon

Liberty's Edge

Name Violation wrote:
Themetricsystem wrote:
Xarls Taunzund wrote:
Can you take Weapon Focus (improvised weapons) and/or Weapon Specialization (improvised weapons)?

You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon. Unarmed opponents are flat-/footed against any attacks you make with an improvised melee weapon.

This could get WAYYY out of hand with a fighter who takes both imp improvised weapon and weapon focus/spec trees.

Is there a table anywhere that details what damage improvised weapons do? Or even what combat maneuvers can be done with them? There was one in complete warrior but for PF?

i dont know of any chart, but its not horribly broken. figure you end up with 1 handed d8 19/x2 or light d6 19/x2, or maybe a two handed do 19/x2.

noting super bad, but you cant ever really deny them a weapon. every rock, stick, even the shackles you put them in, become a valuable weapon

I was referring more to the effect that you would constantly be attacking at the flat-footed AC. Walk into a room, you see weapons EVERYWHERE, expendable, one time use deadly tools.

Liberty's Edge

Themetricsystem wrote:


I was referring more to the effect that you would constantly be attacking at the flat-footed AC. Walk into a room, you see weapons EVERYWHERE, expendable, one time use deadly tools.

Heh, why one time use? Find a rock you like and keep bashing :D

Scarab Sages

Themetricsystem wrote:
I was referring more to the effect that you would constantly be attacking at the flat-footed AC. Walk into a room, you see weapons EVERYWHERE, expendable, one time use deadly tools.

Read that sentence again. "Unarmed opponents are flat-footed..."

Most of the time my players fight anything, the opponent is armed. Only in the occasional bar brawl or surprise round are they not.

Dark Archive

Karui Kage wrote:
Themetricsystem wrote:
I was referring more to the effect that you would constantly be attacking at the flat-footed AC. Walk into a room, you see weapons EVERYWHERE, expendable, one time use deadly tools.

Read that sentence again. "Unarmed opponents are flat-footed..."

Most of the time my players fight anything, the opponent is armed. Only in the occasional bar brawl or surprise round are they not.

i take it your players don't disarm/sunder people

but its easily avoided buy people wearing gauntlets/armor spikes

Liberty's Edge

Name Violation wrote:
Karui Kage wrote:
Themetricsystem wrote:
I was referring more to the effect that you would constantly be attacking at the flat-footed AC. Walk into a room, you see weapons EVERYWHERE, expendable, one time use deadly tools.

Read that sentence again. "Unarmed opponents are flat-footed..."

Most of the time my players fight anything, the opponent is armed. Only in the occasional bar brawl or surprise round are they not.

i take it your players don't disarm/sunder people

but its easily avoided buy people wearing gauntlets/armor spikes

Make sure those are spiked gauntlets. Normal gauntlets don't count you as armed.

Liberty's Edge

Karui Kage wrote:
Themetricsystem wrote:
I was referring more to the effect that you would constantly be attacking at the flat-footed AC. Walk into a room, you see weapons EVERYWHERE, expendable, one time use deadly tools.

Read that sentence again. "Unarmed opponents are flat-footed..."

Most of the time my players fight anything, the opponent is armed. Only in the occasional bar brawl or surprise round are they not.

Yet again I miss the caveat.

You sir get a single golden star! ... or the mystery box!


THE BOX, THE BOX, GO FOR THE BOX!!!

Liberty's Edge

northbrb wrote:
THE BOX, THE BOX, GO FOR THE BOX!!!

Fixed.

Scarab Sages

Name Violation wrote:


i take it your players don't disarm/sunder people

but its easily avoided buy people wearing gauntlets/armor spikes

They do, that's why I said *most* of the time. :)

I want the mystery box!


Thanks for the input. I'm thinking allowing Catch Off-Guard to count (at least as far as the the Focus/Specialization tree goes) as proficiency for improvised melee weapons and Throw Anything for improvised ranged weapons. It may be a little overpowered, but I like the flavor of it and it's not likes it's completely broken.


It isn't overpowered in the least.

First off, you are spending a feat to gain proficiency with these improvised weapons. Then a second one (improvised weapon mastery) to make it worthwhile, aka 1d8 damage in one hand, or 2d6 damage in two hands.

In contrast, you spend one feat (exotic weapon prof) and you can get 1d10 damage in one hand. You don't even need to spend a feat to get 2d6 damage with a 19-20/x2 critical, just pick up a greatsword.

Not to mention that you can enchant weapons, and it is unlikely the rocks you are going to pick up in the garden (improvised small club, 1d4 damage, 1d6 damage with IIW) are enchanted +5 rocks.

Do these two feats make you adept at picking things up and hurting with them? Yes. That's the point of them. Overpowered? Sorry, a +5 dagger is still going to deal more damage than a two handed ladder (2d6 with IIW). Still going to hit more often. 25% more often, in fact. And the dagger wielder has two free feats to spend on Weapon Focus and Improved Critical, making it just that much better.

Real weapons deal more damage, hit more often and that's even before you get into enchanting them. To suggest that specializing (or weapon training) in improvised weapons is somehow overpowering is ridiculous.


It would be an interesting build using a warpriest. The damage of the object at higher levels wouldn't matter as you take weapon focus on improvised weapons.
However you cant enchant a beer mug or chair or whatever random object you may grasp.


Name Violation wrote:
Xarls Taunzund wrote:
Can you take Weapon Focus (improvised weapons) and/or Weapon Specialization (improvised weapons)?
Not unless you become proficient. the requirement for w. focus is "Proficiency with selected weapon", the problem is no one is proficient, even with throw anything or catch off guard since they both say " You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon" but never actually make you proficient

Interestingly enough, the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat says pretty much the same thing.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mynameisjake wrote:
Technically, no, but unless there is some game balance problem that I'm not seeing, I don't know why it shouldn't be allowed. It's actually a pretty interesting character concept.

Call it what it is... a desire to pile more bonuses on top of a powerful feat in a way that totally violates the spirint in which improvised weapons are supposed to be used. They're things you pick up and IMPROVISE with as weapons of the moment, not regular items you pack in your weapon belt.

Once you start using something as a regular weapon, it's no longer improvised.


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alexd1976 wrote:
Name Violation wrote:
Xarls Taunzund wrote:
Can you take Weapon Focus (improvised weapons) and/or Weapon Specialization (improvised weapons)?
Not unless you become proficient. the requirement for w. focus is "Proficiency with selected weapon", the problem is no one is proficient, even with throw anything or catch off guard since they both say " You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon" but never actually make you proficient
Interestingly enough, the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat says pretty much the same thing.

Let's address the elephant in the room.

Even Martial Weapon Proficiency doesn't grant proficiency.

Scarab Sages

catch off guard powerful?

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