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I was working around with the idea of altering the magical tails feat to work more like a feat which gives you spells over time by changing the requirements to having the kitsune needing to be at least 5th level. the kitsune then starts with one of the listed spell-like abilities,and gains a second tail. for every two levels after the kitsune gains another spell-like ability and an additional tail so that by 19th level, the kitsune has all nine tails. however if the kitsune gains this feat after 5th level then he gains a delay in progression based on the number of levels past 5th when they took this feat.
may not fit the normal feat rules but works in my book for freeing up feat space while allowing the possibility of full power near class level max.
any thoughts?
yes, but many people have the complaint of needing to spend too many feats on this ability. a rogue with a selection of rogue talents and extra talent feats spent on the number of minor, major magic and major, minor eldritch magic talents can gain the same spells faster then selecting this feat 8 times, so i was trying to provide a way to gain access to these abilities at a cheaper feat cost. plus they are not going to have all the abilities until 19th level, and only if they take the feat at 5th level. so the progression is alot slower.
plus this fits more with the concept in kitsune folklore where more tails = greater experience, power, and age.
a rogue with a selection of rogue talents and extra talent feats spent on the number of minor, major magic and major, minor eldritch magic talents can gain the same spells faster then selecting this feat 8 times
I'm assuming you've house-ruled that rogues can take these rogue talents more than once, and that the eldritch magic talents aren't gillman-only. But how are you using them to get confusion and dominate person, which are 4th-level spells? Are you adding more talents to give access to higher-level spells?
Letting them grab all those tails for ONE feat is a tremendous giveaway. I prefer the investment the current scheme requires by far.
Unfortunately, the current scheme is flawed because of all the feats the kitsune misses out on by picking the tail feats.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that Paizo at least put the option in. I just find it kind of funny that taking a line of feats that is supposed to represent a kitsune's growing power is pretty certain to lead to him being the weakest character in a party.
Still giving away all those spell-like abilities for one feat is a bit much. I would suggest at least cutting down the uses per day of each ability to 1.
It's called making a choice. I don't see it as missing out, as the abilities you get are worth the investment. And you don't have to go the whole nine-tailed route, you can choose to break it off and be content with the nifty powers you've gotten so far.
I would agree with you if the feats added up to something useful by the time they were maxed out. However, most characters won't be able to get the final feat until level 15 at the earliest. And what do you get for that last feat? Dominate Person, which will probably have a DC of around 18 for a non-spellcaster kitsune. Around 21 if the character spends money on a +6 Cha headband. Meanwhile, an enchantment focused kitsune sorcerer without tails is throwing around DC 30+ enchantments. Essentially, you are spending feats on abilities that mostly will only work reliably on commoners. (yea, exaggeration, but you get the point: DC 18-21 isn't very high for an all or nothing save at level 15)
I will agree that even non spellcaster kitsunes can benefit from getting a few tails for disguise self and invisibility. However, the only class that I think could get good mileage out of getting all 8 feats is the oracle. They have a high enough Cha to up to DCs and don't already have all the spells the feats are giving on their spell list.
Still, I won't argue that giving away all those spells for one feat isn't a bit much. Still, people are just trying to find ways to make a nine tailed fox that doesn't gimp the character.
However, most characters won't be able to get the final feat until level 15 at the earliest.
Nitpick: 13th level. You can use an advanced rogue trick to grab a generic feat.
I just recently worked on an "I have all the SLAs" kitsune rogue; that's the only reason I know.
The Nine-Tailed Fox isn't about being mighty magic uber-epeeness, any more than the Geisha Bard is meant to be mucking around in the sewers of Absalom. Quite frankly they're more on the order of very colorful NPC encounters and but are still quite serviceable as PC's in a correctly contexted campaign.
I won't argue that the tail feats don't have their uses. I think some people are upset mostly because the way the tails are represented in pathfinder doesn't fit well with the 'real life' kitsune legends that they want to base their characters around.
In those you can judge a kitsune's power almost entirely just by counting its tails. You could basically count each tail as a doubling of the kitsune's power (two levels essentially). The idea that a one-tailed fox can be more powerful than a nine-tailed fox is kind of odd.
Edit: Of course, it would be kind of hard to make kitsunes in pathfinder similar to the legends without giving them age categories (like dragons). The closest thing we can get is basing the number of tails on the character's level... and that is where ideas for this kind of feat come from.
Magical feat should have been ONR feat that gets stronger as you level up, even if you had a higher requirement to get a new tail, like getting new SLAs based on your CHA modifier.
Edit: Of course, it would be kind of hard to make kitsunes in pathfinder similar to the legends without giving them age categories (like dragons). The closest thing we can get is basing the number of tails on the character's level... and that is where ideas for this kind of feat come from.
that's where the Idea came from. making it more of a development and a natural progression for the kitsune as they gain levels while this does make the feat high-powered, there have been plenty of other feats that could be used to a similar degree of a high powered nature.
Take the Gunsmithing feat for example, while the intention of the feat is to allow a character to maintain and fix their firearms, it can allow a character to create firearms and sell them for a large sum of money, providing a form of income to an extent that would make the character relatively rich. alchemists and wizards with crafting feats can also produce items at a pace similar to mass production that would give a character alot of money.
plus the abilities are not getting stronger beside the usually increases with charisma which affects even lower powers, but instead they gain additional abilities as they advance. however an additional thing i would add would be to set the abilities from a pick and choose to something in which you gain certain spell-like abilities depending on what your level is.