A simple solution to dipping is to make the fighter-specific version of the feat work off of fighter level + con mod, while the feat works off of BAB + con mod.
Discourages fighter dipping but gives interested martials the ability to buy in with a feat. There absolutely are some combat tricks, like Arcane Armor Training, that make zero sense for fighters but are excellent options for other classes.
You could even add extra stamina to the fighter specific version of the feat, if you feel like the fighter needs the extra oomph over the other classes. You could make the fighter version (fighter level) + (Con mod times 2) or something similar?
I noticed that the variant multi-classing rules do not say anything about class skills. So it is safe to assume that you do not get the class skills of the secondary class, correct?
I do really like the monk except for the fact they no longer get
So, a few questions here.
1. summoners. One of my settings uses summoners who have constructs, not extraplaner entities as their eidelons. Will that be difficult to import-- I rather like what I'm hearing about the unchained summoner given that the older version has always had balance issues.
2. The varient magic item rules-- can they be used for a setting where magic is very rare? Traditional PAthfinder assumes that as you level up you're also getting magic items, which isn't really fitting with the theme of an iceage/stone age setting.
1.) You should be able to house rule them pretty easily, especially constructs. At each level, grant the eidolon some of the abilities granted by the construct subtype, or an evolution point(that's a fairly common filler boost).
2.)The Automatic system actually has a suggestion for 0 magic item play. The chart goes to level 22, and you get the benefits of your level+2.
For those familiar with it, the Automatic Progression works much like the vow of poverty bonuses (though without the poverty) for 3.5 and has some of the same shortcomings. The Automatic Progression is based around the assumption that you still get half WBL to spend on consumables and wondrous items, so it doesn't cover non-bonus things that characters rely on magic for such as flight, underwater breathing, or magical healing.
If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, fighting everything in the Bestiaries, casters are allowed for play" the Automatic system by itself isn't enough to balance a party of casters with a party of non-casters. If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, predominantly non-flying humanoid enemies, no spellcasters allowed" then the Automatic System can probably pull it off, though you'll be spending a lot of time resting and healing between fights. The Automatic System makes low magic/no-magic campaigns easier to run but it won't necessarily do all the work for you.
Mark, a question on the Unchained Monk - since one of his options is take any qinggong power that he's high enough level for, could he use that to get the Core Monk versions of certain powers if he wants them? Like Diamond Body?
So he could take the Unchained Diamond Body at 8th, or take the Core Diamond Body (as a qinggong ki power) at 12th?
Also, thank you very, very much for your presence in the product discussion!
Designer
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So what about that simple monster creation, does it look interesting? Less time spent on writing down monster stats is always good in my book.
I did a lot of the work on this system (along with Rob Schwalb). There's a bit of a learning curve to it the first time you use it, mostly because it has you NOT doing a lot of calculations you're used to doing. After that it's pretty fast. Takes a couple minutes to do a simple beater monster, most of which is spent transcribing the stats.
And to answer everyone's burning question about simple monster creation: YES, you can make one that's like a monk.
I'm loving all of the cool tinkered versions you guys are posting here! Keep 'em coming; I might just be using some of your modifications in my own games! (some of the slight adjustments to stamina vis-a-vis fighters intrigue me).
Now some things about Automatic Progression:
If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, fighting everything in the Bestiaries, casters are allowed for play" the Automatic system by itself isn't enough to balance a party of casters with a party of non-casters. If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, predominantly non-flying humanoid enemies, no spellcasters allowed" then the Automatic System can probably pull it off, though you'll be spending a lot of time resting and healing between fights. The Automatic System makes low magic/no-magic campaigns easier to run but it won't necessarily do all the work for you.
Due to your numbers advantage, you may be able to take on everything in the bestiaries with low magic (which yeah, I would assume means not using full casters at the very least, possibly no casters but 4-levels like paladins), but you'll have to play particularly cleverly, including where you put your affinity and how you structure the party. For instance, having an archer would be a big help, and if you don't, the melee character really should use the extra progression to advance a backup bow at least.
Having otherwise been busy, I've now read the Automatic Bonus Progression pages. I like it.
When applied to NPCs (regardless of racial HD), I assume that the bonuses applied should relate to CR?
For example, a human fighter 5 NPC (CR 4) wouldn't gain the deflection +1 bonus. If that NPC has PC wealth, then they would be CR 5 and hence gain the deflection +1 bonus.
Similarly, a ogre fighter 1 NPC (CR 4) wouldn't gain the deflection +1 bonus either.
Agreed, eric. Since NPCs usually have lower WBL, they would get less automatic progression too.
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Mark, a question on the Unchained Monk - since one of his options is take any qinggong power that he's high enough level for, could he use that to get the Core Monk versions of certain powers if he wants them? Like Diamond Body?
So he could take the Unchained Diamond Body at 8th, or take the Core Diamond Body (as a qinggong ki power) at 12th?
Also, thank you very, very much for your presence in the product discussion!
You're very welcome!
If you took something as a qinggong power, you would use the version in Unchained if there is one. Then again, this is Unchained, so feel free to unchain that away if you like!
Mark, a question on the Unchained Monk - since one of his options is take any qinggong power that he's high enough level for, could he use that to get the Core Monk versions of certain powers if he wants them? Like Diamond Body?
So he could take the Unchained Diamond Body at 8th, or take the Core Diamond Body (as a qinggong ki power) at 12th?
Also, thank you very, very much for your presence in the product discussion!
You're very welcome!
If you took something as a qinggong power, you would use the version in Unchained if there is one. Then again, this is Unchained, so feel free to unchain that away if you like!
Hah, called it! Speaking of which, Mark, was it intentional that both the Formless Mastery and Furious Defense ki powers have odd level prereqs when everything else was even? Also, can you shed some light on the design decisions behind increasing Quivering Palm's action and ki point cost?
EDIT: oh, and thanks for answering questions and what's so far a really, really cool book.
Mark, a question on the Unchained Monk - since one of his options is take any qinggong power that he's high enough level for, could he use that to get the Core Monk versions of certain powers if he wants them? Like Diamond Body?
So he could take the Unchained Diamond Body at 8th, or take the Core Diamond Body (as a qinggong ki power) at 12th?
Also, thank you very, very much for your presence in the product discussion!
You're very welcome!
If you took something as a qinggong power, you would use the version in Unchained if there is one. Then again, this is Unchained, so feel free to unchain that away if you like!
Hah, called it! Speaking of which, Mark, was it intentional that both the Formless Mastery and Furious Defense ki powers have odd level prereqs when everything else was even? Also, can you shed some light on the design decisions behind increasing Quivering Palm's action and ki point cost?
EDIT: oh, and thanks for answering questions and what's so far a really, really cool book.
I'm not sure how they wound up at an odd level, to be honest. Jason wrote Furious Defense and I wrote Formless Mastery, so it doesn't even make sense that one of us put it in by accident, since there were two different authors. Personally, I'd put them at 6th.
@Quivering Palm—I'm not sure, actually. I'm sure Jason would know.
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I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.
So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?
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I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.
Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^
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I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.
So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?
If we are going to talk about alternate skill systems why not try this:
Trait bonus[all classes]:
If you take a trait that grants you a class skill you already have as a class skill - this trait instead gives you 1 skill rank at levels 1,5,10,15 and 20. These skill ranks stack with the skill ranks you put into the skill. This means at level 20 your max skill ranks are now 25 for that skill.
That gives some extra skill points to spread around or the player can become a legendary (whatever).
Which skills can be taken as background skill? I assume Craft, Profession, Appraise, maybe Knowledges, and I read about Sleight of Hand and Handle Animal?According to a friend of mine who has the book, Appraise, Artistry, Craft, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Engineering, Geography, History, Nobility), Linguistics, Lore, Perform, Profession, and Sleight of Hand are the background skills.
This is correct. Artistry is a new skill introduced to handle creating things like poetry or philosophy, stuff not so easily covered by craft, perform or profession checks. Lore is a hyper-specialized version of a knowledge check - rather than Knowledge: Religion giving you general knowledge of undead and all the deities, ranks in Lore could mean that you know a lot about Erastil or mummies.
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I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.
Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^
By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!
I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.
So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?
I like this! It takes advantage of the system to encourage cool and interesting backgrounds while opening up skill points for more general use. Neat idea!
I like this! It takes advantage of the system to encourage cool and interesting backgrounds while opening up skill points for more general use. Neat idea!I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.
So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?
I'm anxiously waiting for the book to come in the mail partly because of Backgrounds. Traits are kind of a background mechanic but I always felt it was a bit limited and lackluster. Merging it with Unchained backgrounds would be cool but I need to see it before I can figure how I want to do that. Perhaps even tie it to the Hero Point system making it similar to Inspiration in 5th edition.
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By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.
Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^Called it! Just uh. Saying...
I've been meaning to look at how I'd Unchain the Ninja, but I figure it would be basically give it the Finesse Training, Debilitating Strike, and maybe Rogue's Edge? A little more unsure on the last one. Give them access to Double Debilitation probably.
I have both a ninja and a rogue in my Jade Regent game. I gave the rogue all the Unchained powers. I gave the ninja nothing. It seems to be doing well so far. Ninja is just pretty strong compared to non-Unchained rogue, so I would strongly recommend not giving it everything if you want to keep the choice between them more competitive. In some games, that might not matter though.
@ KageCM - The all attacks in one swing one?
If you have multiple hits worth of attacks, and score a crit, you deal crit damage for the first attack.
Unless your confirmation roll is also a threat, in which case you get two crits. (Assuming you could deal two hits worth of damage to begin with.)
The all attacks in one swing method also allows moving before taking the attack, with a penalty on the attack roll (-5 for every 5 ft past the first five feet, IIRC).
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QUESTION
Can an Unchained Monk qualify for Drunken Master archetype? I have a player who wants to play Unchained but also wants the Drunken Master archetype. Is it possible?
No. I sat down the other day to figure out it for myself; the only archetypes from the Core Rulebook line that are still compatible with the Unchained Monk are the master of many styles and the sensei. The reason? Both archetypes don't trade any of the monk class features that were either A) bumped back a level or B) transformed into ki powers.
That said, I sat down and took Mark's "Unchain everything!" message to heart. I just finished writing unchained monk versions of all of the Core Rulebook-line monk archetypes. As soon as I can get some art together for it, I'm going to publish it as an Everyman Gaming product. (I'm shooting for early May.)
I have both a ninja and a rogue in my Jade Regent game. I gave the rogue all the Unchained powers. I gave the ninja nothing. It seems to be doing well so far. Ninja is just pretty strong compared to non-Unchained rogue, so I would strongly recommend not giving it everything if you want to keep the choice between them more competitive. In some games, that might not matter though.By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.
Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^Called it! Just uh. Saying...
I've been meaning to look at how I'd Unchain the Ninja, but I figure it would be basically give it the Finesse Training, Debilitating Strike, and maybe Rogue's Edge? A little more unsure on the last one. Give them access to Double Debilitation probably.
I would only give the ninja the unchained rogue's abilities after taking away the ninja's invisibility. The ninja's other powers actually aren't nearly as powerful as just that one.
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If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, fighting everything in the Bestiaries, casters are allowed for play" the Automatic system by itself isn't enough to balance a party of casters with a party of non-casters. If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, predominantly non-flying humanoid enemies, no spellcasters allowed" then the Automatic System can probably pull it off, though you'll be spending a lot of time resting and healing between fights. The Automatic System makes low magic/no-magic campaigns easier to run but it won't necessarily do all the work for you.
In this case, the Skill Unlock Heal would help mitigate the Healing Problem a bit. But i guess this sysmtem work a lot in a ambient where the players don´t wish to keep buying and upgrading their itens so much.
I have both a ninja and a rogue in my Jade Regent game. I gave the rogue all the Unchained powers. I gave the ninja nothing. It seems to be doing well so far. Ninja is just pretty strong compared to non-Unchained rogue, so I would strongly recommend not giving it everything if you want to keep the choice between them more competitive. In some games, that might not matter though.By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.
Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^Called it! Just uh. Saying...
I've been meaning to look at how I'd Unchain the Ninja, but I figure it would be basically give it the Finesse Training, Debilitating Strike, and maybe Rogue's Edge? A little more unsure on the last one. Give them access to Double Debilitation probably.
So how would you handle other classes, like Investigators or Archeologist Bards, that can access Rogue Talents? Would they be able to use the Unchained versions?
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If we are going to talk about alternate skill systems why not try this:
Trait bonus[all classes]:
If you take a trait that grants you a class skill you already have as a class skill - this trait instead gives you 1 skill rank at levels 1,5,10,15 and 20. These skill ranks stack with the skill ranks you put into the skill. This means at level 20 your max skill ranks are now 25 for that skill.That gives some extra skill points to spread around or the player can become a legendary (whatever).
That is very interesting, but I would probably not allow the skill ranks to stack beyond the normal max. The max ranks=level hard cap is used to balance feats and prestige classes, so changing the cap could create a lot of problems. Evangelist at level 4 instead of 5 or Spell Perfection at level 12 instead of 15, for example.
I like this! It takes advantage of the system to encourage cool and interesting backgrounds while opening up skill points for more general use. Neat idea!I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.
So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?
Thanks! I suggested it in part to solve the ever-present Cleric of Erastil problem - clerics should be able to handle various aspects that their deity is concerned about and depending on the deity, 2 skill ranks + INT per level can make that hard to pull off. In the previously mentioned example the cleric of Erastil could use traits to put Knowledge (nature) and Diplomacy or Heal on his Background list, which eases the strain a great deal.
I want this so bad but Paizo doesn't accept PayPal, and that's the only way I can get it.
I'm anxiously waiting for the book to come in the mail partly because of Backgrounds. Traits are kind of a background mechanic but I always felt it was a bit limited and lackluster. Merging it with Unchained backgrounds would be cool but I need to see it before I can figure how I want to do that. Perhaps even tie it to the Hero Point system making it similar to Inspiration in 5th edition.
I've been debating Unchained with a fair few of the local GMs, what systems to use etc. Opinions differ (at times wildly) on the merits of the various options, but the one thing we all immediately agreed on was to start using the Background system. It's intuitive, simple to learn, and it's a great boon to players who want their character build to reflect the character backstory.
It's in all honesty a very good system. :)
QUESTION
Is the Lore skill a class skill for all classes since it is more specified?
Lore is a class skill for all classes. Artistry is a class skill for all classes that have either Craft or Perform as a class skill, which I think is all classes released to date? I can't think of one that doesn't start with Craft.
QUESTION
Is the Lore skill a class skill for all classes since it is more specified?
Lore is a class-skill for all classes.
I would only give the ninja the unchained rogue's abilities after taking away the ninja's invisibility. The ninja's other powers actually aren't nearly as powerful as just that one.I have both a ninja and a rogue in my Jade Regent game. I gave the rogue all the Unchained powers. I gave the ninja nothing. It seems to be doing well so far. Ninja is just pretty strong compared to non-Unchained rogue, so I would strongly recommend not giving it everything if you want to keep the choice between them more competitive. In some games, that might not matter though.By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.
Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^Called it! Just uh. Saying...
I've been meaning to look at how I'd Unchain the Ninja, but I figure it would be basically give it the Finesse Training, Debilitating Strike, and maybe Rogue's Edge? A little more unsure on the last one. Give them access to Double Debilitation probably.
Giving the ninja something is of course pretty far in unchain your house-ruled home game territory, but in my eyes on the positive side.
Never had a ninja and a rogue in the same game so far though. In that case i would probably do the same as Mark Seifter.On the other side, i we never had someone use vanishing trick so extensively and i wouldn´t do that either. Going nova is normaly not my style, since i think it doesn´t make sense from the characters view.
After all, what will you do if you blasted out everything and then still encounter someone?
Nuuuu, it is starting to look like I won't see my pdf until next week! Quick, who do I need to bribe to get it today? ;)
Regarding the new action economy: am I missing something here, or does this basically make everyone move 50% faster in the long run?
Nuuuu, it is starting to look like I won't see my pdf until next week! Quick, who do I need to bribe to get it today? ;)
You should probably hire one of those Unchained Rogues to steal a copy for you. I hear those guys are pretty good.
Everyone keeps mentioning the skill unlocks (especially Heal) but keeping the actual uses oddly vague. If it's some kind of conspiracy to drive me crazy, you can stop now. What do Acrobatics and Sleight of Hand do? And I guess Heal since nobody will stop mentioning it :P
Everyone keeps mentioning the skill unlocks (especially Heal) but keeping the actual uses oddly vague. If it's some kind of conspiracy to drive me crazy, you can stop now. What do Acrobatics and Sleight of Hand do? And I guess Heal since nobody will stop mentioning it :P
Generally speaking we're allowed to "spoil" minor details, but we're not allowed to copy/paste directly from the book or give out excessively detailed stuff.
That said, The skill unlock system gives you a new way to use a skill (or changes the way you can currently use the skill) for every 5 ranks you invest in it, provided you invest a specific feat in the skill. Unchained Rogues get free skill unlocks every five levels.
For Heal, that means that you can use the Treat Deadly Wounds option to heal increasingly large amounts of HP and ability damage. It's not mindblowingly good, but it's a nice option for a party with limited (or no) access to magical healing.
Everyone keeps mentioning the skill unlocks (especially Heal) but keeping the actual uses oddly vague. If it's some kind of conspiracy to drive me crazy, you can stop now. What do Acrobatics and Sleight of Hand do? And I guess Heal since nobody will stop mentioning it :P