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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)
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Get ready to shake up your game! Within these pages, the designers of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game unleash their wildest ideas, and nothing is safe. From totally revised fundamentals like core classes and monster design to brand-new systems for expanding the way you play, this book offers fresh ideas while still blending with the existing system. With Pathfinder Unchained, you become the game designer!

Pathfinder Unchained is an indispensable companion to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 15 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Unchained includes:

  • New versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner classes, all revised to make them more balanced and easier to play.
  • New skill options for both those who want more skills to fill out their characters' backgrounds and those seeking streamlined systems for speed and simplicity.
  • Changes to how combat works, from a revised action system to an exhaustive list of combat tricks that draw upon your character's stamina.
  • Magic items that power up with you throughout your career—and ways to maintain variety while still letting players choose the "best" magic items.
  • Simplified monster creation rules for making new creatures on the fly.
  • Exotic material components ready to supercharge your spellcasting.
  • New takes on alignment, multiclassing, iterative attacks, wounds, diseases and poisons, and item creation.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-715-4

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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Great Optional Toolkit

5/5 —

Having completed a couple of adventure paths as GM and gearing up for my third, I felt I had enough experience under my belt to see about implementing some of the alternative rules systems from Pathfinder Unchained. The book presents 254 pages of different or additional ways to do things in Pathfinder, and it’s certainly worth a look if you’re planning a new campaign—chances are there’s something for every GM. These aren’t little things like a new feat, but major redesigns of entire classes, monster creation, magic, and more. The only caveat is that the more you stray from the Core rules, the more unresolved issues are likely to arise, so think carefully through the implications of a change and make sure players are willing to buy in to any adjustments. Anyway, there’s a ton of material to discuss, so let’s get to it!

I’m not a big fan of the cover. The golem or animated statue or whatever it is has a crazy narrow waist that really annoys me for some reason, even though I do acknowledge the whirling chains are a nice nod to the book’s title. The introduction (2 pages long) notes that Pathfinder was released seven years earlier (at that point) and that it’s time to offer a workshop full of tools for GMs to select from to update and customise their game. It provides a brief but useful overview of the major new changes, and is worth a skim.

Chapter 1 is “Classes” (36 pages) and contains the most widely adopted changes across the Pathfinder community. The chapter presents new “Unchained” versions of the Barbarian, Monk, Rogue, and Summoner, and even PFS allows them because they are almost unanimously accepted as more playable (and better balanced) revisions. The Unchained Barbarian has simplified calculations for rage duration (though it still lasts too long, in my opinion) and makes it easier to use rage powers. The Unchained Monk has a simplified Flurry of Blows and new ki powers for versatility. The Unchained Rogue gets skill unlocks (discussed later) and important abilities like debilitating injury, weapon finesse, and (eventually) Dex to damage. The Unchained Summoner is frankly a nerf, but a much-needed one; the biggest change is to the eidolon, but it also fixes the Summoner spell list. I’m happy with all the class revisions, and I only wish Paizo got around to making Unchained versions of some of the other problematic classes out there. The chapter also contains a new method to compute BABs and saves to help multiclass characters, but it looks too complicated to me. Finally, there’s a new “staggered advancement” mechanism that sort of allows a character to partially level up as they go instead of doing it all at once when they reach a new XP threshold; I think it’s more effort than its worth.

Chapter 2 is “Skills and Options” (44 pages). It starts with an optional “Background” skills system, which essentially gives each PC a free rank each level to spend on a non-combat oriented skill like Craft, Perform, etc. I tried it once in a previous campaign but found it was rarely used to flesh out a character and was instead just dumped into learning another language or another point in a Knowledge skill. I do like the expanded skill uses for Craft, Perform, and Profession—they’re easy to integrate into a campaign because they essentially give the GM a list of uses and DCs to make those skills more valuable in ordinary gameplay (such as using Craft to determine what culture made an item, for example). Another optional change is a consolidated skill list that cuts the number of skills in a third! This is essentially what Starfinder did, and I’m not a fan at all because it makes for too much homogeneity within a group. Another proposal is “grouped skills” which makes PCs more broadly skilled but less specialised; complicated but interesting. Next, there are alternative Crafting and Profession rules. I like the changes to Crafting (simplifies and details DCs better) but it doesn’t address magical item crafting which, frankly, is the most likely to be used and abused. The changes to Profession are only for running a business. Perhaps most pertinent are the “Skill Unlocks” for Unchained Rogue (or any other PC who takes a particular feat)—these allow a character who has 5, 10, 15, and 20 ranks in a skill to gain a particular ability with that skill. These aren’t game-changers for the most part, but they do speed up their use or remove penalties, and are worth having for the most part. Last, there’s a new way to handle multiclassing; essentially, you give up feats to get the secondary powers of another class. I found it interesting but ultimately unsatisfactory.

Chapter 3 is “Gameplay” (46 pages) and is a real grab bag of options. The first involves alignment: either making it a bigger part of the game by tracking PCs’ alignment more finely and providing bonuses accordingly, or removing it altogether (which would require a *lot* of GM legwork). Some people like the revised action economy (a version of which was implemented in PF2), which changes the admittedly initially confusing dichotomy of Free/Swift/Immediate/Move/Standard/Full to just “Simple” and “Advanced”. However, I’ve also heard issues with how it handles certain classes. Another proposal is to remove iterative attacks; it looks interesting but too complicated for easy adoption. Next are “stamina points” and “combat tricks”—basically, a pool of points to use for a bonus on an attack or to do certain tricks that improve combat feats; I could certainly see using this. Also tempting is the idea of “wound thresholds”, which means there’s a degradation of fighting ability the more hit points are lost—this would create some new tactical considerations though it would also require some more GM tracking. Last are Starfinder-style disease and poison progression tracks, which make them *much* deadlier (I think they’re too hard to integrate at this stage in Pathfinder, however).

Chapter Four is “Magic” (38 pages). It starts with “Simplified Spellcasting”, in which a spellcaster only prepares spells for their three highest spell levels with all lesser spells grouped in a pool; this provides them even more flexibility, which is anathema to those (like me) unhappy with the caster/martial disparity at higher levels. Next are “Spell Alterations”, and some of these are more my jam: limited magic, wild magic, spell crits and fumbles, and material components have a cost for every spell (old school!). I know a lot of groups use the “Automatic Bonus Progression” rules, which provide a fixed bonus at each level so that the “Big Six” magic item slots can be used for more interesting and flavourful things than just stat boosting gear. Next are magical items that scale; I think one or two of these in a campaign could be really fun (and manageable), though I wouldn’t want to overdo it just because of the complications. Last up is a new way of handling magic item creation that involves the whole party overcoming challenges in order to add unique powers to items; it’s certainly flavourful and worth considering.

Chapter Five is “Monsters” (62 pages). It presents a whole new (and allegedly much faster) way of creating monsters. It’s the method adopted in Starfinder, and is based on arrays and grafts rather than building a creature from the “ground up”. I’m personally not a fan of it (I like knowing monsters follow the same “rules” as everyone else), but I do sympathise with the homebrewers out there who want a faster way to stock a dungeon with custom creations.

And that’s Pathfinder Unchained. If you’ve been playing or GMing for a while and have a good sense of the Core rules, it’s certainly worth a look.

Some of the suggested mechanics are worth the entire price

5/5 —

Automatic Bonus Progression is enough to justify the entire price of the book. Better versions of the Rogue and Monk, as well as fixes to the summoner and streamlining the barabarian seal the deal. There is a lot of other good stuff in here as well. Well worth it!

Upgraded Mechanics!

5/5 —

I love the idea of this book, I wish this happened more often. They took what they saw wrong with their game and spent proper time and effort to come up with proper solutions. It's pretty rare for a company to spend this much effort on tweaking things. The new proposed mechanics for combat and skills are unique and great ideas to help customize your groups' gaming experience.
I hope they release more books like this in the future. I've love for more variations for multiclassing, and I'm still waiting for a summoner archetype that removes the class summon monster ability and focuses more on the eidolon.
Highly recommend it, especially for anyone interested in how someone goes about making a gaming system. It provides awesome insights.

Fantastic product

5/5 —

It's been a while since it took me so long to digest a Pathfinder book, and boy, did Unchained ever keep me digesting. More optional rules than you can shake a stick at, to be implemented in modular or wholesale fashion, to tweak your game to your heart's content, and with top-notch art throughout, to boot. Excellent work by Paizo and one of their finest offerings in a while.

As for the negatives, the only thing I can really point out is that the writing can be somewhat scattershot and unfocused in a couple of reasonably complex sections, which would have benefited greatly from examples or bolded formulae.

Love The Options

5/5 —

This book is a great addition. Options are optional, and it's great that this book has so many. It really makes customizing a campaign easy. Of you'll like you never use every option, or likely even half of them in a single you play or run, but having them really gives you a great toolbox to use. Some people are finicky about house rules, so having an official batch of "house rules" to choose from is nice for people who prefer to stick to official products. No book is perfect, but being this book isn't really being forced on anyone (of course I suppose none of the supplements are), and that is a giant bag of options that you can pick and choose from to enhance the game, for those who'd like it enhanced, I give this product 5 stars, especially if I am comparing it to the usefulness of the average Pathfinder product.

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?
Designer
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!

Sweet! Yeah I found an old post I made when trying to form Briar into a legacy weapon for the entirety of Kingmaker and these new rules might make it work.

Zergtitan wrote:

Well right now i have it's progression mirroring it's awakening progression in Sound of a Thousand Screams.

It is found in the Temple of the elk as a +1 Bastard Sword with nothing more known except it's name is Briar and whoever wields it shall hold the fate of The Stolen Lands in their hands. then it's progression continues with each major villain defeated.

Defeat the Stag Lord: +2 Bastard Sword
Defeat the Enraged Giant Owlbear: +3 Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat Vordakai: +3 Intellegent (empathy) Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat Armag: +4 Intellegent (speech) Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat King Castruccio Irovetti: +5 Intellegent (telepathy) Cold Iron Bastard Sword (Vorpal towards Fey)
Defeat the Jabberwocky: +5 Intellegent (Telepathy) Cold Iron Vorpal Bastard Sword
Designer
2 people marked this as a favorite.
zergtitan wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!

Sweet! Yeah I found an old post I made when trying to form Briar into a legacy weapon for the entirety of Kingmaker and these new rules might make it work.

Zergtitan wrote:

Well right now i have it's progression mirroring it's awakening progression in Sound of a Thousand Screams.

It is found in the Temple of the elk as a +1 Bastard Sword with nothing more known except it's name is Briar and whoever wields it shall hold the fate of The Stolen Lands in their hands. then it's progression continues with each major villain defeated.

Defeat the Stag Lord: +2 Bastard Sword
Defeat the Enraged Giant Owlbear: +3 Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat Vordakai: +3 Intellegent (empathy) Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat Armag: +4 Intellegent (speech) Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat King Castruccio Irovetti: +5 Intellegent (telepathy) Cold Iron Bastard Sword (Vorpal towards Fey)
Defeat the Jabberwocky: +5 Intellegent (Telepathy) Cold Iron Vorpal Bastard Sword

Neat stuff. You'll be able to use the system really easily with that in hand, and we've done a bunch of the math for you in that section to help you integrate it.

zergtitan wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!

Sweet! Yeah I found an old post I made when trying to form Briar into a legacy weapon for the entirety of Kingmaker and these new rules might make it work.

Zergtitan wrote:

Well right now i have it's progression mirroring it's awakening progression in Sound of a Thousand Screams.

It is found in the Temple of the elk as a +1 Bastard Sword with nothing more known except it's name is Briar and whoever wields it shall hold the fate of The Stolen Lands in their hands. then it's progression continues with each major villain defeated.

Defeat the Stag Lord: +2 Bastard Sword
Defeat the Enraged Giant Owlbear: +3 Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat Vordakai: +3 Intellegent (empathy) Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat Armag: +4 Intellegent (speech) Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat King Castruccio Irovetti: +5 Intellegent (telepathy) Cold Iron Bastard Sword (Vorpal towards Fey)
Defeat the Jabberwocky: +5 Intellegent (Telepathy) Cold Iron Vorpal Bastard Sword

Kinda curious, does the sword suddenly and magically transform into cold iron? That seems kinda silly.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Will there be any rules for low magic/low money campaigns so we can be less reliant on the same core magic items that every character needs?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ashram wrote:
zergtitan wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!

Sweet! Yeah I found an old post I made when trying to form Briar into a legacy weapon for the entirety of Kingmaker and these new rules might make it work.

Zergtitan wrote:

Well right now i have it's progression mirroring it's awakening progression in Sound of a Thousand Screams.

It is found in the Temple of the elk as a +1 Bastard Sword with nothing more known except it's name is Briar and whoever wields it shall hold the fate of The Stolen Lands in their hands. then it's progression continues with each major villain defeated.

Defeat the Stag Lord: +2 Bastard Sword
Defeat the Enraged Giant Owlbear: +3 Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat Vordakai: +3 Intellegent (empathy) Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat Armag: +4 Intellegent (speech) Cold Iron Bastard Sword
Defeat King Castruccio Irovetti: +5 Intellegent (telepathy) Cold Iron Bastard Sword (Vorpal towards Fey)
Defeat the Jabberwocky: +5 Intellegent (Telepathy) Cold Iron Vorpal Bastard Sword

Kinda curious, does the sword suddenly and magically transform into cold iron? That seems kinda silly.

Kingmaker:
I based the progression at the time on the Bloom Progression in the 6th adventure of kingmaker. and apparently in the adventure it doesn't start out as cold iron. which makes sense considering the blade is not technically made of metal but grown from the Nymph's love, torn out of her prior by the lords of the first world.

^ WEW! Spoilers!
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Glutton wrote:
^ WEW! Spoilers!

Sorry, forgot about that.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I still wonder how this will affect PFS
1 person marked this as a favorite.

I always like the idea of weapons growing in power, thematically. It's like the Dragon Slayer in Berserk. It's slaughtered so many demons that it's just imbued with more power, making it on par with actual magical weapons.

Exotic material components sounds interesting.

This needs to get released and fast. I want to start a new campaign but I don't want to start before this is out, because I don't want to confuse and annoy players by dumping a slew of new rules in in the middle of the game.

It's okay with new classes and feats, etc. because those don't change the way their characters worked so far. But with this it's a bit different.

Is there any playtesting planned for this?

Fast play rules go bye bye?

Shucks.
Webstore Gninja Minion
2 people marked this as a favorite.
robert best 549 wrote:
Is there any playtesting planned for this?

The window for that is well passed at this point.

Threeshades wrote:

This needs to get released and fast. I want to start a new campaign but I don't want to start before this is out, because I don't want to confuse and annoy players by dumping a slew of new rules in in the middle of the game.

It's okay with new classes and feats, etc. because those don't change the way their characters worked so far. But with this it's a bit different.

Come up with a short run game then, something really crazy that you always wanted to try but you knew couldn't sustain a really long campaign.

I don't know maybe you always wanted to run a game where your party was merfolk
or ponies
or Mice out to defeat the dreaded basement cat

Gestalt characters?
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

Fast play rules go bye bye?

Shucks.

Guess they didn't work out.

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
magnuskn wrote:
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

Fast play rules go bye bye?

Shucks.

Guess they didn't work out.

They may have turned out to be not all that fast...

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

This book seems like a pretty big deal, a la The Advanced Class Guide, and we're only two months out from its (scheduled) release. Will we see previews soon?
Contributor
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

Fast play rules go bye bye?

Shucks.

Not necessarily. The "and much more!" is still there.

That said, I'm not sure that "fast play" combat is a good idea for a game like Pathfinder. Things to improve play and make it more fluid, sure, but as a GM, most of my monsters don't live very long as-is. Why would I want play to be faster?

Whether you agree or not, combat is the focus of the Pathfinder RPG. Virtually all class features are built around it, as are most encounters in Paizo's dungeons. Also, the gaps between classes' in out-of-combat utility are much greater than gaps between classes' in-combat utility, so speeding up combat doesn't really help out the fighter or the barbarian very much.

Spoiler:

When I say, "gaps between out of combat ability," I'm referring specifically to two things: skill points and out of combat options. Most classes don't have powers or abilities that function well outside of combat; the rogue does, most spell casters do as well, but the fighter, barbarian, cavalier, and more benefit their party in combat exclusively.

You can also see this in the skill point system. On average, the difference between the lowest Hit Die class (d6, or 3.5 hit points per level) and the highest Hit Die class (d12, or 6.5 hit points per level) is 3 hit points per level. For skill ranks, the lowest is 2 ranks and the highest 8is , for a staggering 6 ranks per level difference. Whereas the difference in HP between a fighter and a rogue at 12th level is about 36 hit points, the difference in skill ranks is 72 skill ranks.

If I had one wish for unchained, it would be for skill ranks to progress at the same intervals for Hit Dice; 6 + Int for the least skilled classes, 10 + Int for the most skilled classes, and 12 + Int for the Rogue. A revamp like that would certainly help to provide some legroom into an Ultimate Skills system, because then you'd actually have given every class enough resources to specialize in an array of different skills.

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I might be wrong, but when I read "fast-play" rules I read that as an attempt to make the rules more streamlined rather than rules that make combat take less rounds.

Removing the attack of opportunity-system or changing the ten-separate-roll full attacks into a Vital Strike-type single attack could be examples of "fast play" rules.

Another example could be "save class" where a caster rolls to hit a static save (10+x) and compares his roll to everyone's save rather than have everyone roll a save and compare with his save DC. It's a minor change, but it means that instead of having 15 minions roll reflex saves to avoid a fireball, the caster rolls one "fireball attack" and compares his roll with the 15 minion reflex "AC"s.

I'd rather see it jettisoned as an impossible task than to see a half-hearted version taking up space in the book, so this might be a good thing.

Mid-high level gameplay complexity is still a big issue for me, especially when compared to other games I've been playing. It's a difficult problem to tackle without throwing out a bunch of material.

It's quite possible that some of the rules in this book will still speed up play some. I'll be curious to have a look, for sure.
Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!

I somehow missed the legacy weapon addition. My excitement for this book just blew through the damn roof!

Designer
4 people marked this as a favorite.
Robert Brookes wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!
I somehow missed the legacy weapon addition. My excitement for this book just blew through the damn roof!

They're scaling items, not legacy weapons. They work differently and can be any kind of item. But yeah, we thought they were really cool, and we hope you guys do too!

Designer
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

I'd rather see it jettisoned as an impossible task than to see a half-hearted version taking up space in the book, so this might be a good thing.

Mid-high level gameplay complexity is still a big issue for me, especially when compared to other games I've been playing. It's a difficult problem to tackle without throwing out a bunch of material.

It's quite possible that some of the rules in this book will still speed up play some. I'll be curious to have a look, for sure.

The changes in the ad copy don't necessarily reflect changes in what you can find in Unchained; I mean it does say "AND MUCH MUCH MORE!"

Sovereign Court

I'm seriously more excited about the simplified monster creation rule, making monsters and npcs is the big time waster.
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Shut up and take my money.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Robert Brookes wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!
I somehow missed the legacy weapon addition. My excitement for this book just blew through the damn roof!
They're scaling items, not legacy weapons. They work differently and can be any kind of item. But yeah, we thought they were really cool, and we hope you guys do too!

I'm a definitely fan of scaling magic items. But I'm also a GM and I already own One Bling to Rule them All: Scaling Magic Items, (along with the original legacy weapons from 3.5). What makes your scaling magic items better than those I already have?

Designer
3 people marked this as a favorite.
137ben wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Robert Brookes wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!
I somehow missed the legacy weapon addition. My excitement for this book just blew through the damn roof!
They're scaling items, not legacy weapons. They work differently and can be any kind of item. But yeah, we thought they were really cool, and we hope you guys do too!
I'm a definitely fan of scaling magic items. But I'm also a GM and I already own One Bling to Rule them All: Scaling Magic Items, (along with the original legacy weapons from 3.5). What makes your scaling magic items better than those I already have?

You know what? Our 3pps are excellent folks, and they often put out great product. So having not read the 3pp book in question, maybe they're both great! I can't compare the two, I can just say that I think you'll find the ones from Unchained to be simple and easy to use, and that if you love the other ones you have, then you'll probably love having the premade ones we've included for you either way.

Dark Archive

I have so been wanting Scaling Magic items of some type for a long time. I was hoping that the legendary items from mythic adventures was going to be it but glad to see it is coming out in this book.

Is this an optional set of rules or does this replace the existing rules for the game? Reading the description it does not really state if it is an updated edition of core rules or just alternate rules to use.
Grond wrote:


Is this an optional set of rules or does this replace the existing rules for the game? Reading the description it does not really state if it is an updated edition of core rules or just alternate rules to use.

It's not a replacement for the core rules. Alternate rules would be a better description.

Mark Seifter wrote:
137ben wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Robert Brookes wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

Legacy Weapons!? Nice!

If its too much to ask, would it be possible to produce a legacy weapon version of Briar from Kingmaker and the Artifacts Campaign Setting Books?

In addition to plenty of examples, we provide everything you need to make your own scaling items, so I'm excited to see what the boards come up with in that regard!
I somehow missed the legacy weapon addition. My excitement for this book just blew through the damn roof!
They're scaling items, not legacy weapons. They work differently and can be any kind of item. But yeah, we thought they were really cool, and we hope you guys do too!
I'm a definitely fan of scaling magic items. But I'm also a GM and I already own One Bling to Rule them All: Scaling Magic Items, (along with the original legacy weapons from 3.5). What makes your scaling magic items better than those I already have?
You know what? Our 3pps are excellent folks, and they often put out great product. So having not read the 3pp book in question, maybe they're both great! I can't compare the two, I can just say that I think you'll find the ones from Unchained to be simple and easy to use, and that if you love the other ones you have, then you'll probably love having the premade ones we've included for you either way.

*gasp*!

You mean you're asking me to read your scaling magic items when they come out and decide for myself which is better?!? What kind of a sales pitch is that? :)
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Kudaku wrote:

I might be wrong, but when I read "fast-play" rules I read that as an attempt to make the rules more streamlined rather than rules that make combat take less rounds.

Removing the attack of opportunity-system or changing the ten-separate-roll full attacks into a Vital Strike-type single attack could be examples of "fast play" rules.

Another example could be "save class" where a caster rolls to hit a static save (10+x) and compares his roll to everyone's save rather than have everyone roll a save and compare with his save DC. It's a minor change, but it means that instead of having 15 minions roll reflex saves to avoid a fireball, the caster rolls one "fireball attack" and compares his roll with the 15 minion reflex "AC"s.

I'm italian, so I apologise if I make some grammatical mistakes.

I totally agree with you. As DM, I'd like to see shorter combact round.
I really liked the advantage\disadvantage system of the 5th edition, and I already houseruled in my campaign.
If a player scale a huge to colossal monster, they take advantage.

I'd like to see mechanics that propel to cinematic action and roleplaying, rather than "how much power attack do I put?"

I don't like the multiple attack system. A Vital Strike chain-like system is more plausible that making...8 EXCANGE OF BLOWS in 6 seconds at 20th level with a dual wielding weapons.

One attack to rule them all!

In The Dark Eye you can expend Resistance to make special manouvers like Power Attack and I like it very much!

If nothing else I'm looking forward to new rules on Poison...Our game broke into a massive argument over Poison last game. Just kind of wanted to throw my hands up and yell "look there is new rules in April lets just forget about it till then"
Grand Lodge
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Kudaku wrote:

...

Another example could be "save class" where a caster rolls to hit a static save (10+x) and compares his roll to everyone's save rather than have everyone roll a save and compare with his save DC. It's a minor change, but it means that instead of having 15 minions roll reflex saves to avoid a fireball, the caster rolls one "fireball attack" and compares his roll with the 15 minion reflex "AC"s.

This is how Star Wars Saga works and it is awesome. I only got to play a short campaign through middle levels but making saves a defense that were rolled against made combat much smoother. I've wanted to implement it in my games but haven't had a chance to really test it before releasing it into the wild.

Another thing that Star Wars Saga did right was removing iterative attacks and making them feat chains.

SM
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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
StarMartyr365 wrote:
Kudaku wrote:

...

Another example could be "save class" where a caster rolls to hit a static save (10+x) and compares his roll to everyone's save rather than have everyone roll a save and compare with his save DC. It's a minor change, but it means that instead of having 15 minions roll reflex saves to avoid a fireball, the caster rolls one "fireball attack" and compares his roll with the 15 minion reflex "AC"s.
This is how Star Wars Saga works and it is awesome.

It's also how D&D 4th edition "saving throws" work, if I remember correctly. Since both the Saga and 4E systems are not Open Gaming Content it might be difficult to "steal" this mechanism, but I believe the mechanism is actually open, as it was an optional rule in the 3E book Unearthed Arcana, most of which is OGC.

Indeed: here it is.
Grand Lodge
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Zaister wrote:
StarMartyr365 wrote:
Kudaku wrote:

...

Another example could be "save class" where a caster rolls to hit a static save (10+x) and compares his roll to everyone's save rather than have everyone roll a save and compare with his save DC. It's a minor change, but it means that instead of having 15 minions roll reflex saves to avoid a fireball, the caster rolls one "fireball attack" and compares his roll with the 15 minion reflex "AC"s.
This is how Star Wars Saga works and it is awesome.

It's also how D&D 4th edition "saving throws" work, if I remember correctly. Since both the Saga and 4E systems are not Open Gaming Content it might be difficult to "steal" this mechanism, but I believe the mechanism is actually open, as it was an optional rule in the 3E book Unearthed Arcana, most of which is OGC.

Indeed: here it is.

I had completely forgotten about this! Thank you!

SM
Contributor
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Zaister wrote:

It's also how D&D 4th edition "saving throws" work, if I remember correctly. Since both the Saga and 4E systems are not Open Gaming Content it might be difficult to "steal" this mechanism, but I believe the mechanism is actually open, as it was an optional rule in the 3E book Unearthed Arcana, most of which is OGC.

Indeed: here it is.

If I remember my legal mumbo-jumbo right (and I might not, as this is an untrained Profession [barrister] check for me), you can't copyright game mechanics, but you can copy right the terminology that goes with it. For instance, you could copyright the word, "Samophage Defense" if Samophage is something that's your Intellectual Property, but the mechanic itself (your Dexterity + a value = a number that your opponent needs to beat with a die role) can't be copyrighted because that sort of language can't be considered intellectual property. Its the same reason why every FPS game ever can use the same general button combinations on the same consoles without one having the right to sue the other.

So, for example, the term "saving throw" is considered Open Content under the OGL, and adding values to 10 to determine a defense isn't copyrightable, so there's nothing stopping Paizo from going this route if that's what they want to do in Unchained.
Grand Lodge
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Will we get a preview of this product in the upcoming weeks?
Zaister wrote:
StarMartyr365 wrote:
Kudaku wrote:

...

Another example could be "save class" where a caster rolls to hit a static save (10+x) and compares his roll to everyone's save rather than have everyone roll a save and compare with his save DC. It's a minor change, but it means that instead of having 15 minions roll reflex saves to avoid a fireball, the caster rolls one "fireball attack" and compares his roll with the 15 minion reflex "AC"s.
This is how Star Wars Saga works and it is awesome.

It's also how D&D 4th edition "saving throws" work, if I remember correctly. Since both the Saga and 4E systems are not Open Gaming Content it might be difficult to "steal" this mechanism, but I believe the mechanism is actually open, as it was an optional rule in the 3E book Unearthed Arcana, most of which is OGC.

Indeed: here it is.

It's a fun system, it allows casters some of the same "will I roll high or low"-excitement that martial characters enjoy.

I tried to implement the UA version a while back but ran into some kinks which made me ultimately design not to go through with it. One example was how action points could be used to massively jack up spell DCs, another was that a single-target fortune hex on a debuff-focused spellcaster turned into an AoE misfortune hex for the enemy's saving throws. It is absolutely doable, but it requires a bit of thought to avoid giving casters an unintentional advantage.

There will be Scalated or Reforged feats rules?
there are one millionmillionmillionmillionmillionmillionmillion of feats and people always take the same.

Then i found the scalated feats, and do more suiteable for a character to play with

I'm both dreading and anticipating this release. It's one of those things where I fear too much watering down of rules and such, too much simplification (Blackguards vs Blackguards 2, though not in that much of an extreme) yet at the same time I await some of the rules changes that are much needed.
Liberty's Edge

The Stamina thing seems like it might make for interesting combat options, allowing for more devastating combinations, like quick draw stabbing somebody with a dagger while blocking their strike from a longsword. Its the little things like that that make my life a happier place.
Lantern Lodge

Are we going to see some revamping of the prestige classes as well?
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Greylurker wrote:
Threeshades wrote:

This needs to get released and fast. I want to start a new campaign but I don't want to start before this is out, because I don't want to confuse and annoy players by dumping a slew of new rules in in the middle of the game.

It's okay with new classes and feats, etc. because those don't change the way their characters worked so far. But with this it's a bit different.

Come up with a short run game then, something really crazy that you always wanted to try but you knew couldn't sustain a really long campaign.

I don't know maybe you always wanted to run a game where your party was merfolk
or ponies
or Mice out to defeat the dreaded basement cat

might steal your mice idea

Biztak wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
Threeshades wrote:

This needs to get released and fast. I want to start a new campaign but I don't want to start before this is out, because I don't want to confuse and annoy players by dumping a slew of new rules in in the middle of the game.

It's okay with new classes and feats, etc. because those don't change the way their characters worked so far. But with this it's a bit different.

Come up with a short run game then, something really crazy that you always wanted to try but you knew couldn't sustain a really long campaign.

I don't know maybe you always wanted to run a game where your party was merfolk
or ponies
or Mice out to defeat the dreaded basement cat

might steal your mice idea

that one is partilly due to me expecting a shipment of Mousling minis from Reaper soon.

They look awesome

Greylurker wrote:
Biztak wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
Threeshades wrote:

This needs to get released and fast. I want to start a new campaign but I don't want to start before this is out, because I don't want to confuse and annoy players by dumping a slew of new rules in in the middle of the game.

It's okay with new classes and feats, etc. because those don't change the way their characters worked so far. But with this it's a bit different.

Come up with a short run game then, something really crazy that you always wanted to try but you knew couldn't sustain a really long campaign.

I don't know maybe you always wanted to run a game where your party was merfolk
or ponies
or Mice out to defeat the dreaded basement cat

might steal your mice idea

that one is partilly due to me expecting a shipment of Mousling minis from Reaper soon.

They look awesome

Were those in the Kickstarter? If so, I think I missed out, those are fricking badass.

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