Question about feats that modify the attack action, instead of stating standard action


Rules Questions


First I'd like to apologize, since i am sure this question has been asked before. But I can only assume that the vast combinations of feats likely to be asked about wouldn't come up in a simple search. (although i admit i didn't spend a long time trying different searches)

My main question is based on 2 feats, vital strike and gory finish. unlike cleave, which states in the feat description that using it is a standard action, both vital strike and gory finish state that they are used with the attack action.

So my question can be boiled down to one of two effects:

1) since both feats modify the attack action without replacing anything, they can both be added to it.

or

2) doing either one requires a standard action (which just happens to replace the standard action attack rules) and since they are replacing it, you can only do one or the other.

of course there is the possibility of some completely different ruling i could not think of, but i would appreciate a detailed explanation of one or the other, hopefully my wording of the subject will catch other people's searches and they can use the replies to this to answer their questions.

regardless thanks for any clarification on this :)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

For reference:

Vital Strike: "When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total."

Gory Finish: "When you use the attack action, you can use a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus to make a single attack at your highest base attack bonus. If you reduce your target to negative hit points, you can spend a swift action to make an Intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 30 feet who could see your attack."

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Looks to me like they would work.


asthyril wrote:
My main question is based on 2 feats, vital strike and gory finish. unlike cleave, which states in the feat description that using it is a standard action, both vital strike and gory finish state that they are used with the attack action.

Vital Strike (Combat): "When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage."

The intent here is an extra bonus when using the attack action. It should stack with anything else that uses the attack action, but doesn't replace what happens with something else. (Like Sunder)

Gory Finish (Combat): "When you use the attack action, you can use a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus to make a single attack at your highest base attack bonus. If you reduce your target to negative hit points, you can spend a swift action to make an Intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 30 feet who could see your attack."

So if you use the attack action with a weapon that you have WF with, you should be able to get VS dice, and the effects of gory finish if you reduce the target to negative HP.

Overhand Chop (Ex) from the APG Two-Handed Fighter was written specifically to use the attack action and to work with things like Vital Strike.

Do note, however, that James Jacobs has ruled with more leniency about the attack action. In the linked example, he's allowing a specific standard action (Devastating Blow) to also work with the attack action (for Vital Strike). This re-opens the door for Vital Strike sunders, cleaves, etc. He did say that he ruled that way to avoid accusations of supporting the casters-edition of Pathfinder. I'm not sure what that means, or how serious he was.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Oy.


Standard actions cannot be modified by things that say Attack Action.


Cheapy wrote:
Standard actions cannot be modified by things that say Attack Action.

*can't tell if didn't read thread, or talking to JJ*


Just stating the rules to help avoid confusion. You and Jiggy were right that attack actions stack in most cases. Vital Strike and Gory Finish will work together.

Grand Lodge

Will Cleave and Gory Finish work together? Can I make a cleave attack, drop an enemy, use Gory Finish, then attack another enemy? (I know I can only use swift action to make an intimidate check once per turn)

Cleave:

As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a –2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.


Making an attack as part of a standard action is not the same as using the attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action as defined in the rules.

Cleave won't work with either Gory Finish or Vital Strike.

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