Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Andoran, Birthplace of Freedom (PFRPG)

^Not a mini-setting, but I would say Cheliax represents Dixie quite well. only the Civil War that separated Andoran from Cheliax ended up with the nations being separate instead of the slaveholders being defeated throughout the territory. That said, it seems extremely likely that a number of former nobles and former slaveholders who wound up on the Andoren side of the border long for the old days (just like many people in Dixie on Earth) and secretly work to bring them back. An article about one of the Eagle Knight leaders on pathfinderwiki.com mentioned this, but now I can't find it again.

Kudaku wrote:

So... The Andoran militia wear parade armor, while most other militia wear studded leather armor (or the equivalent). What's the problem?

From Ultimate Equipment: "Parade armor may be crafted from leather, metal, or a mixture of both."

"for use in showy noncombat situations"
"for example, one country's parade armor may be a chain shirt, tabard, leather greaves, and a winged helm"
NONE of those describe the Andoran uniforms & hats.

Just so you know:

1) Parade armor first appeared in the Golarion-setting book Adventurer's Armory.
2) Its description there includes this text: "for example, the parade armor of the Eagle Knights of Andoran is a blue coat reinforced with light chain, white breeches, and thick blue leather boots."
3) Years later, Ultimate Equipment picked up many items from Adventurer's Armory and other Golarion-setting books, and made them setting-neutral, which meant taking out the Andoran reference in the parade armor description and replacing it with a setting-neutral example of parade armor (the "winged helm" reference you quoted).

So the "item's description doesn't match what's in the art" argument doesn't apply.

BPorter wrote:

Kudaku wrote:

So... The Andoran militia wear parade armor, while most other militia wear studded leather armor (or the equivalent). What's the problem?

From Ultimate Equipment: "Parade armor may be crafted from leather, metal, or a mixture of both."

"for use in showy noncombat situations"
"for example, one country's parade armor may be a chain shirt, tabard, leather greaves, and a winged helm"
NONE of those describe the Andoran uniforms & hats.

Just so you know:

1) Parade armor first appeared in the Golarion-setting book Adventurer's Armory.
2) Its description there includes this text: "for example, the parade armor of the Eagle Knights of Andoran is a blue coat reinforced with light chain, white breeches, and thick blue leather boots."
3) Years later, Ultimate Equipment picked up many items from Adventurer's Armory and other Golarion-setting books, and made them setting-neutral, which meant taking out the Andoran reference in the parade armor description and replacing it with a setting-neutral example of parade armor (the "winged helm" reference you quoted).

So the "item's description doesn't match what's in the art" argument doesn't apply.

Thanks for the historical perspective, Sean. That said, I still haven't seen a logical or canonical reason why Andoran would choose to outfit it's military in parade armor which is "for use in showy, non-combat situations".

I get that it makes up the iconic look Andoran military as presented in the Golarion sourcebooks. It's a stylistic choice and Paizo's choice. I still don't like it, find it jarring, and find no reason for it to exist. It's a personal taste. Some people look at it and can say "looks cool is good enough for me" or perhaps their players don't particularly care about setting details. Others like me, look for "little details" in a setting because they add to their enjoyment and immersion in the game. I care about a nation's population, trade routes, imports & exports. Even though those details hold little "adventuring value", they are imagination springboards for me when I'm developing adventures within a setting.

While there is plenty about Golarion that I love as a campaign setting, Andoran's anachronisms are something that doesn't fit as neatly with the rest of the Inner Sea. I like kitchen sink settings, but as kitchen sink settings go, I think perhaps I come down on the side of "melting pot" vs. "patchwork quilt".

Bottom line, there's just a lot about Andoran that seems like a missed opportunity to me.

Similarly, the nonsensical never-ending revolution of Galt is in the negative cool points range when I stack-rank the Inner Sea nations. It is, hands down, my least favorite nation in the entire setting - including Alkenstar (I tend to dislike firearms in my FRPGs). Numeria, however, ranks high in the cool points range.

As for Ultimate Equipment, I think the entry would have been better served if the phrase "chain reinforcements" had been used instead of "chain shirt" just to avoid confusion & apparent contradictions with the lower armor class of parade armor.

Dude, have you considered the impact kajiu and dragons have on their ecosystems? Because that's way more un-realistic than Andoran style of armour, just sayin'. Or than trade routes, imports and exports. I mean, there's a whole insult to biology here.

Mark Moreland wrote:

'Murica

What are our chances for decanter of endless waterboarding or an NPC nicknamed "Tricky Dicky"?

Probably about as good as our chances of seeing a Galt with anti-Garund deportation policies or pogrom powered inquisitors from Irrisen. Which is to say pretty much zero.

Thanks for the historical perspective, Sean. That said, I still haven't seen a logical or canonical reason why Andoran would choose to outfit it's military in parade armor which is "for use in showy, non-combat situations".

I got two reasons why it could be...just off the top of my head.

1) It could have been the only armor the revolutionaries could get. I mean having a national identity for a army is important...maybe that is what they could get. And it would be better than nothing.

2) For that battle that might have been a newly formed unit that due a supply mishap never got their battle uniforms in time for the battle.

And due to the two above reasons if the battle was victorious that uniform could have become a symbol for the Andoran military(which by the way would be vastly more important that a additional +1 to AC). So they kept it...

Also who says they could not improve on the standard Parade armor afterwards? Maybe this book will have the Andorian Army Armor.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to justify why Andoran soldiers wear that (if they actually do), or what's written in Ultimate Equipment (I didn't write or develop the armor section), I just wanted to explain that the original text did explain the visually-memorable Andoren armor as parade armor.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to justify why Andoran soldiers wear that (if they actually do), or what's written in Ultimate Equipment (I didn't write or develop the armor section), I just wanted to explain that the original text did explain the visually-memorable Andoren armor as parade armor.

Fair enough. Thanks again!

Of course, one possibility we're failing to consider is that maybe the pictured Aodoren military unit was on parade when they and/or their town got ambushed, and they had to go fight with whatever they had at the moment.

{. . .}
Similarly, the nonsensical never-ending revolution of Galt is in the negative cool points range when I stack-rank the Inner Sea nations.
{. . .}

Earth has had some failed states and coup-every-few-years states that have remained the way they are for a pretty long time. The longevity of Galt's is pushing the upper limits of what happens on Earth, but given how civilization on Golarion evolves at a glacial pace compared to Earth in general, it doesn't require an additional stretch.

Galt is kinda like Somalia.

This book appears to support the destructive chaos of Andoran. They need to learn their places in life as slaves. Long live Cheliax.

Does anyone else notice that the April Campaign Settings book isn't up? I want to see what it is. :)

Dot!

Does anyone else notice that the April Campaign Settings book isn't up? I want to see what it is. :)

My Guess is that they are either skipping that month due to the Inner Sea Races hardcover coming out or...

It is going to be a map folio.

That woman is HUGE! That means she has huge freedom! Break and enslave, break and enslave her freedom!

Seriously though is a small part of the population of Andoran just really tall or is she a half-giant?

She's an idealised depiction of Lady Liberty, aka Alysande Benedict, a hero of the Andoren struggle for independence from Cheliax. See the Andoran player companion for details.

(She's also, clearly, inspired by Delacroix's painting "Liberty on the Barricades")

Well the soldiers could hypothetically be halflings.

Or she could just be standing on a higher surface than they are. It is not really clear from the picture that she is bigger than they are, just that she is in a more elevated position.

That woman is HUGE! That means she has huge freedom! Break and enslave, break and enslave her freedom!

Seriously though is a small part of the population of Andoran just really tall or is she a half-giant?

Enlarge person.

In other words, a sorcerer/wizard did it.

Any chance there is a Paladin of Freedom (NG or CG)?

Based on previous statements on the subject, I'd say the likelihood of that is very, very small.

Exceedingly small.

You could do the a CG or NG Warpriest who takes the archetype with Smite. If for some reason you really must have a mount you can then multiclass with Cavalier and take the feat that lets your level be counted as you Cavalier level.

Well the soldiers could hypothetically be halflings.

Andorans are closely related to the Lashuntans of Castrovel. The women are tall and lithe, and the men are short, squat and hairy with pin-heads.

David Neilson wrote:

Well the soldiers could hypothetically be halflings.

Andorans are closely related to the Lashuntans of Castrovel. The women are tall and lithe, and the men are short, squat and hairy with pin-heads.

Is this according to Taldan or Cheliaxian propaganda?

Hey do not be down on the Halfing Hussars motto "Your hands our at our heads, but our teeth at your (redacted by the Chelish Ministry of Propriety and the Corruption of Youth)"

Jeven wrote:

David Neilson wrote:

Well the soldiers could hypothetically be halflings.

Andorans are closely related to the Lashuntans of Castrovel. The women are tall and lithe, and the men are short, squat and hairy with pin-heads.

Is this according to Taldan or Cheliaxian propaganda?

I am insulted! We Taldans don't issue propaganda. We just emphasize certain facts over others...

Will this have new playable Eagle Knight stuff? Traits, feats, archetypes or a new prestige class for the Twilight Somethings?
Also will example Eagle Knights be statted out as monsters for lawful aligned adventurers to slay?

Will this have new playable Eagle Knight stuff? Traits, feats, archetypes or a new prestige class for the Twilight Somethings?

Also will example Eagle Knights be statted out as monsters for lawful aligned adventurers to slay?

I believe you are looking for the "Twilight Talons". Information on them is very thin to non-existent. I would love to know more....PLEASE?!

Sounds very interesting! I hope we get enough info to play adventures during Andoran liberation war.

Will this have new playable Eagle Knight stuff? Traits, feats, archetypes or a new prestige class for the Twilight Somethings?

Also will example Eagle Knights be statted out as monsters for lawful aligned adventurers to slay?

I might expect Andoran NPCs, but otherwise these books are generally more GM focused, so I wouldn't expect a ton of player options.

Personaly I would add stats for military units (Ultimate Campain rules).

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

BPorter wrote:

Kudaku wrote:

Stuff

I always assumed that the Andoran art (this is the same image as in the ISWG for Andoran) was an homage to Liberty Leading the People, which is one of the more famous paintings of the personified godess of liberty/freedom (many of which were also used by colonial and post-revolutionary USA as well as revolutionary France).

Yes, it is. :)

That woman is HUGE! That means she has huge freedom! Break and enslave, break and enslave her freedom!

Seriously though is a small part of the population of Andoran just really tall or is she a half-giant?

Hierarchical proportion :)

Cannot wait for this! Andoran is my favorite of all Golarion nations, though I do find many others fascinating.

SKR, very nice to see you still around, sir. Thank you for your input and work on my favorite RPG and RPG world.

Oh this is going to be awesome.

Monsters in this book? Probably more like human NPC's like in the pirate one? With 3 real monsters?

Similarly, the nonsensical never-ending revolution of Galt is in the negative cool points range when I stack-rank the Inner Sea nations. It is, hands down, my least favorite nation in the entire setting - including Alkenstar (I tend to dislike firearms in my FRPGs). Numeria, however, ranks high in the cool points range.

On the other hand, Galt is my girlfriend's favourite nation in the ISWG book.

I look forward to seeing this book in action.

After this only Taldor, Qadira, Cheliax and Sargava need to get the upgrade to Campaign Setting. ;-)

Why has this been moved to may?
First from March to April and now from April to may.
I notice this with a lot of Pathfinder products lately (as i buy almost everything).
Don´t get me wrong - if it needs more time to become a better book take the time - i´m just curious.
Is it the dock strikes again or something else?

Is it the dock strikes again or something else?

I believe this is the main reason. Depending on how long it gets them to get things back on track down in the ports of LA and Long Beach will probably dictate how quickly these get out the door.

Product image and description updated to final.

LIBERTY! or Shut up and take my money!

Would love to see feats, items, and player options for eagle knight PCs.

Eagle Knight vs. a resurgent hobgoblin? Nice.

Hope there is some new fey to go along with the Candlestone caverns. Also look forward to the old aristocracy.

At first I was interested in this. Than I read PF Tales: Pirate's Promise which explored the Andoran activity against slavery and now I can't wait ti read more about it.

Fey ruled Candlestone Caverns sounds very interesting. I also hope for some new fey as well.