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Mynafee Gorse

Bill Dunn's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 4,455 posts (4,944 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 14 aliases.


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The arrow strikes the spider's hairy abdomen with a satisfying THWACK. But it doesn't stop the spider, it just draws its attention. It responds by scooting a little closer, pointing its spinnerets in Masamune's direction, and letting fly.
Web: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (10) + 5 = 15
The samurai, however, is protected by the arrow slit, which manages to get a bit gummed up with webbing, rendering it useless for further shooting.

The rest of the party is up - any order.

Spider: -6 hp


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I need a cigarette.


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If you're really looking for some diversity of options, consider the warhammer as the primary and a short sword in the off-hand. Then you not only have bludgeoning but also one piercing (for differing DR issues). Consider getting a kukri as a second off-hand weapon so you can swing the slashing too. Then, both secondary weapons are better crit generators than the primary as well.

If materials are that big an issue for you, think about one in cold iron, one in mithral (when you can afford it because it doesn't lose the damage alchemical silver does), and one adamantine (for those pesky golems and constructs).

Just 3 weapons - lots of bases covered.


Masamune Mitsuhide wrote:
Are those small slits in the castle arrow slits, and can Masamune see and fire out of them?

You sure can. Some face outward, but some face inward toward the courtyard.


I've moved Rawnie, Masamune, and Ash into the gatehouse on the ground floor map - near the middle of the room.

This stone structure has a floor of packed dirt and numerous wooden support beams for the stone ceiling above. A rusted iron gate allows access from the gatehouse into the courtyard, while to the sides, a pair of wooden ladders climb to the roof above. Narrow arrow slits pierce the walls periodically.

The main gate from the outside may be open, but the inner one to the courtyard is not. In fact, it appears to be locked, but the bar and lever for unlocking it are reachable inside the gatehouse.

Shortly, one of the exterior doors of the stable opens and out scuttles a monstrously large spider. Its legs span 6 or 7 feet while its body is perhaps as large as 3 feet across. It seems to be looking about for something.

Perception: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (17) + 4 = 21
Motion up on the parapet seems to have caught its attention! Piper has been spotted.

Sorry to push, but it feels right to keep the pace up a bit right now, from a dramatic perspective. So I'm setting up initiative.

Initiative
Alara: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (8) + 3 = 11
Ash: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (11) + 1 = 12
Masamune: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (11) + 3 = 14
Piper: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 2 = 13
Rawnie: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (3) + 1 = 4

Spider: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (11) + 3 = 14
Ain't nobody breaking any records. But it's good enough for Masamune to go first... before the spider. Then it's the spider's turn.


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deadboy wrote:


I don't think it works better. If I give Bob the Barbarian(played by Steve the salesman) a enlarge person potion and an exotic saddle. I can mount my barbarian friend but I cannot make him charge. It makes no difference if you do it with a PC or an NPC. It works better if you treat you mount as its own entity.

I think that's mostly because it's a silly, contrived situation and not a real rider-mount relationship.


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Deadboy, It actually works better if you treat them both as charging but as a single unit...


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Mathmuse wrote:

My wife made an elegant suggestion: the horse is a large creature that takes up a 2x2 square but has only a 5-foot reach. The rider with a reach weapon is a medium creature that sits in the middle of the horse, so for purpose of determining the squares threatened by the rider, choose one of the squares occupied by the horse as the rider's location.

Ordinarily, one would choose a square that lets the rider reach the farthest ahead. But for a charge where the horse will also attack, chose a square at the back end of the horse so that the rider's 10-foot reach hits the same square as the horse's 5-foot reach.

Technically, the rider is considered to be taking up the whole space of the mount. Granted, that gets a little weird when riding an elephant, but it's an abstraction.


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But it does seem a pretty reasonable interpretation to use Ride-by attack to get the rider's attack with a lance, continue movement, and let the mount get its follow-up charge attacks in even if you don't allow the ride-by attack feat to allow movement to continue after that point.


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I need to import a genocide scroll over from Rogue and genocide the spam.


The dire corby collapses with the fight finally taken out of him.

From their differing vantage points, both Alara and Piper notice some activity stirring in the largish courtyard building just below Alara's position. It appears to have once been a stable for the horses of the castle. The exterior walls are gray and weather-worn with a few gaps appearing where boards have broken though. The roof sags a bit.

Piper can see some shadowy movement through the gaps, though without enough detail to make out what is moving (not at this distance, anyway). Alara can hear skittery movement from within but up near the roof.


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LoneKnave wrote:

What if he's riding a rhino though?

If the rider had Ride-By attack, I'd consider allowing both attacks (lance and gore) since that would allow him to move past the spot he made his own attack and enable the rhino's shorter reach to get in its attack. Otherwise, I'd be expecting the rhino rider to choose which charge attack he'll make - with his lance or with the rhino's powerful charge and gore. And then that would determine which space the charge needed to be to - one suitable for the lance or one suitable for the rhino horn.


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claudekennilol wrote:
Valor Axeflail wrote:

Also, nothing in the Charge rules state that you *must* make an attack at the end.

The word used is "may".

But it does say that you *must* move to the closest space from which you can attack.

Is this rejoinder meant to imply that the charging mount, let's call it a horse, must charge to the closest space from which it can attack? If so, stop it. You ever see a joust, either in real life or in the media? Does the horse make an attack? No. The rider does. They're a unit. They act together. That unit needs to move to the closest spot from which it can attack and that's pretty much going to be determined by the boss of that unit - the rider - and his weapon. The individual components of the unit may be targeted (you can try to attack the rider or the horse separately if given the opportunity) and, for those issues, the effects of the charge (loss of AC) can apply to both, but the primary concerns facing the charging unit are going to be determined by the rider and his (or her] attack.


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Pathfinder is a fantasy adventure role playing game. The rules are meant to facilitate having fantasy adventures in a relatively easily administered manner - not throw up barriers to entirely reasonable actions via over-pedantic, tortured readings.

So, yes, of course you can charge with a reach weapon like a lance.


After two swift blows from Alara, the dire corby is reeling but the ferocious hate in its eyes indicate it will fight on.

Will save: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (15) + 3 = 18

The bird man shrugs off Piper's spell, refusing the lure of slumber.

The dire corby fights back, clutching at Alara with its claws, but to no avail. It does begin squeaking in its strange, guttural language, though
Claw 1: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (12) + 3 = 15 a very near miss!
Claw 2: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (2) + 3 = 5 a much farther miss

Let's add everyone else to the initiative (just in case):
Initiative
Ash: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (8) + 1 = 9
Masamune: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (7) + 3 = 10
Rawnie: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (18) + 1 = 19

Arranged all together, Alara, Piper, and Rawnie may act before the dire corby does anything more, then he goes, then Masamune and Ash.


Sleep is a 1 round casting time (which I often forget) and that keeps you to a 5' step when casting. But that dire corby is in range now, should you choose to cast that spell.


Well, that's better than just taking 10 in this instance. Distance does work in your favor here, too.

Initiatives
Alara: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (11) + 3 = 14
Piper: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (17) + 2 = 19

Dire Corbies: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (11) + 1 = 12

From his vantage point, Piper sees the situation unfold, and is ready to act! Moreover, that bird man doesn't seem to have noticed the sneaky bard.

Piper, Alara, and then the dire corby. This means that Alara does have the poor dear flat-footed and sneak-attackable. My, my...


Perception: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (18) + 1 = 19

The dire corby starts ambling back along the parapet as Alara skulks forward (at surprising speed thanks to her ninja tricks). The birdman is oblivious to her closing in on him for most of the route until, just as they both reach the top of one of the guard towers, he spies her! His beak gapes open in astonishment for a moment before he starts to react.

The dire corby rolled well on his perception check, but even so, he had to be no further than about 10' away to notice Alara due to the range penalties.

We'll be rolling initiative - but I'd like to know what Piper's actions would be with Alara's sneaking. He can't move as fast and still be very stealthy. Trailing her while still trying to sneak would put him right about at the smiley face on the upper floors map. If that's what you'd be doing, Piper, I'll put you there on the map. But if you have another plan, I'm all ears (or eyes since I'll be reading it?!?).


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GM Tribute wrote:


It took them a while to be right, but FATAL proves their point.

Not really. RPGs aren't some kind of slippery slope that inevitably leads to FATAL or RaHoWa any more than the invention of language is a slippery slope that leads to angsty teen poetry.


I'm quite willing to pick up the pace too.


Perception: 1d20 - 4 ⇒ (14) - 4 = 10

Piper suspects the creatures wrestling down in the courtyard may be ogrekin - a term that sometimes comes up in stories associated with ogres. But he can recall little specific about them.

That said, as Piper skulks to Alara's position, one of the hefty creatures glances in his general direction - but takes no further notice as his fighting companion throws some dirt in his eyes.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
White Plume Mountain, if I remember right. Although I also think the riddle itself is traditional and goes back centuries.

You remember right. It was White Plume Mountain - a fun romp of an adventure even if the location was highly contrived and bizarre.


The dire corby dies quietly. The other dire corby on the parapet, now all the way across the courtyard, seems to have noticed absolutely nothing.

Alara's new position offers her a view down into the noisy part of the courtyard. There she sees plenty of old debris (broken benches and masonry) but much of it cleared from the center of the area where two heavy-set and muscular humanoids wrestle. Each is covered in bruises and relatively minor wounds as well as ugly deformities. The combat they're locked in doesn't seem to be to the death, but it still seems pretty vigorous and harsh.

They seem, by appearance, to be akin to the ogres you fought on the journey from Sandpoint to Brinewall.

I've added 2 tokens for the brawling wrestlers on the ground floor map. Alara and Piper are on the upper floor map. I've also put a larger version of the brawler token on the ground floor map for reference.


The trapdoor leads to a small chamber at the top of a small watchtower standing over the gatehouse. Another ladder leads upward from here to another, badly weathered trapdoor (presumably to the top of the short tower). Debris lays scattered about - broken up crates, old torches, broken arrows.

Perception: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (7) + 8 = 15
Alara notices, amid the debris, old stains that might be blood, suggesting that the presence of some of this debris may be the result of significant violence.

The door stands ajar, leading out onto the parapet over the gatehouse.

I have placed Alara on the Brinewall Castle upper floors map to indicate her position


There are 2 ladders leading to trapdoors in the ceiling. The trapdoor positions are marked on the ground floor map.


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Black Dougal wrote:

Humm, as you say it may be a matter of taste. I think I had Dune built up in my head to be the Lord of the Rings of Sci-fi, but did not find it so.

I think the first one, Dune, is up at that level. It's fantastic.

But I never made it very far into Dune Messiah.


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Dragon78 wrote:

The Maltese Falcon was a remake?

Yeah, it's actually the third version. As I said upthread back before it was necro-ed, Hollywood has been remaking stuff from the get-go.


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I actually do allow retries on knowledge checks... As long as the situation has changed enough that the PCs has new inroads into the information. That also usually comes with a new DC too. For example, a PC tries to use know (the planes) to identify a demon based on limited observation (like a glimpse or seeing the effects of his powers), he can retry when he has better and more direct observation, and I even let him retry if they capture the wizard who called it and interrogation reveals it to be a glabrezu.


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jtaylor73003 wrote:
I have complex reason why I value my time, and so anything I chose to do must meet a certain level of value or I wasted my time. This applies all things I decide to do from going to the movies to going on dates, etc.

I almost hate to say it, but I think this will set you up for a lot of disappointment in the future. And not just with respect to gaming.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Thaco had NO reason to exist

Sure it did. It was a way to replace a lookup table without making other significant changes. And it did its job reasonably well.


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DominusMegadeus wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:

Magical methods of crafting are designed to enable a party to do quick construction while on an adventure. Mundane crafting is downtime activity. One enables stuff to be kitted up on the fly, the other enables a master craftsman to make his own gear in a montage scene.

The discrepancy? All about the style of play and expected purpose of the two methods. It's not about imbalance of classes or martial not having nice things.

But the magical way can be done in downtime too. Wizards aren't restricted from crafting when they have a month off. In fact, they're somewhat known for it.

At which point we're back to the fact this isn't an economic sim game, it's an adventure game and the difference in construction time doesn't really matter.


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Magical methods of crafting are designed to enable a party to do quick construction while on an adventure. Mundane crafting is downtime activity. One enables stuff to be kitted up on the fly, the other enables a master craftsman to make his own gear in a montage scene.

The discrepancy? All about the style of play and expected purpose of the two methods. It's not about imbalance of classes or martial not having nice things.


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And here's my character proposal's stats:

Keegan:

Forest Gnome
Warlock (Fey pact) 1
Guild artisan background

Hit points 10
Hit dice 1d8
AC 13

Strength 8 (-1)
Dexterity 14 (+2)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Intelligence 14 (+2)
Wisdom 10 (+0)
Charisma 15 (+2)

Natural illusionist
Speak with small beasts
Darkvision
Gnome cunning
Speed 25 ft

Otherworldly patron - Archfey
Cantrips
Eldritch blast
Friends

Spells
Hex
Sleep

Guild membership

Proficiencies
Light armor
Simple weapons
Wisdom saves
Charisma saves
Arcana
Investigation
Insight
Persuasion
Alchemist tools

Languages
Common
Gnome

Starting equipment
Alchemy tools
Letter of intro from guild
Traveling clothes
Belt pouch
15 gp
Short bow and arrows
Arcane focus (hawthorn wand)
Scholar pack
Leather armor
2 daggers


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I played Panzer Leader by the light of a lantern as a Boy Scout at camp around the same time I was starting to play D&D. I feel pretty much a grognard compared to a lot of snarky whippersnappers around here.


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
You see this snowball in my hand? Climate change disproved.
"Global warming"? HEY GENIUS. GLOBE WARMS UP ALL THE TIME, IT'S CALLED "SUMMER".

Maybe you have been playing too much football without a helmet.

If you're going to make Ford references today, I'll meet that challenge.


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Spook205 wrote:

We really need to come up with a commensurate term for the other end of this particular spectrum.

The anti-grognard, the guy who's on a perpetual quest for novelty and harbors a Hegelian belief that game systems are slowly marching towards a state of undefinable perfection.

How about the Mayfly? He flits about with no long-term game and, ultimately, dies on his quest for unattainable perfection.


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glass wrote:
Well, 5e's core mechanics being more interesting than 4e's is a matter of opinion. I don't find them more interesting, but if you do that's fine. The notion that 5e is better balanced than 4e is ridiculous on its face, though.

Well, now that depends on how you define balance or what form of balance you actually find important, doesn't it? 4e is a game wildly out of balance compared to other editions of D&D. Can you figure out how?


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Jiggy wrote:


To look at it from yet another angle, imagine that a 20th-level fighter is training alongside a 1st-level fighter. They're each attacking a target dummy 20 times.

In a series of 20 attacks, the 20th-level fighter only hits his target 4 more times than the 1st-level fighter. What the crap.

Keep in mind that your proficiency bonus isn't the only way you're improving. That 20th level fighter has probably got his strength maxed out now while the 1st level fighter probably doesn't. That'll account for another 1-2 successes. He may have a +1-+3 magic weapon. That's another 1-3 successes. He can attack that dummy 80 times in the time it takes that 1st level fighter to hit it 20 times, alternatively, he gets done in 5 rounds what the 1st level fighter takes 20 to accomplish. And that's without even touching the archetype features he might have or the fact that he's a heck of a lot more durable.

If you ignore every other probable advancement, sure, that 20th level fighter only hits a little more often than that 1st level fighter. But then, he also doesn't have to since most opponents have an AC within the 1st level fighter's ability.


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glass wrote:

And compared with 4e, the core mechanics have been made more complicated and the balance made worse.

See, from my perspective, those would be "more interesting" and "better" rather than "more complicated" and "worse".


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Petty Alchemy wrote:


I don't see 5e drawing much from 4e at all though. It solves the "Stand Still and Full Attack" problem differently, now you can move as you like, as opposed to 4e which did away with multiple attacks entirely (except the ranger).

And everyone gets the same proficiency bonus (as in level-based attack bonus) regardless of class. Skills are effectively trained or untrained rather than invested on with individual skill points. Healing is fast with some variation on short rest healing. 3.5/PF Weapon sizes are gone again. Positive/Negative energy damage is radiant/necrotic.

Considerably more than coming up with a solution to standing still/full attack vs move and standard attack.


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Bluenose wrote:
Kalshane wrote:
Yes, there are saves for all 6 stats, though most effects target one of the traditional 3 of Dex, Con and Wis.
Wait, when did the "traditional" saves become Dex, Con and Wis? Because it certainly wasn't that way in any edition of D&D prior to 2000.

I think 15 years of Fort, Ref, and Will through roughly 3 editions counts as a tradition. That there was another, different tradition before them doesn't negate that.


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Jiggy wrote:


My wife, who is much more of a "casual" gamer than I am, cites this as a major critique of Pathfinder. She feels like whenever she wants to do something cool or "fun" or creative, the GM says, "Well, the first part will need a move action with an Acrobatics check for X and another for Y, and then you'll need a standard action to do a CMB check to try Z, which will provoke..."

Just to do one thing.

She's basically given up and resigned herself to asking me what pre-defined options she has available to her at any given moment, because anything she comes up with on her own gets dissected and arranged into a series of 3-6 checks/rolls, only one of which needs to go low to make the whole thing fail, and probably leave her with a sword in her face.

I haven't seen the DMG, but if it encourages single-check activities, I'd call that a plus. :)

I think games with highly detailed rules tend to inspire this sort of GMing. That inspiration, however, can be resisted, particularly in a home game.

But I suspect your GM might do the same thing with 5e even with a simpler action economy and stat checks instead of skill checks...


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How is it a copyright infringement?


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I think there are some things I would call odd perceptions in the original post.

The rules are treated a lot less differently than you think. They're both abstractions that manage how things go on. They have different elements within them that offer some aspect of simulation. I think Pathfinder's may be a bit more specific in some areas such as weapon sizing and the use of certain modifiers in combat (strength vs dex builds and using feats to compensate) yet 5e includes some that accomplish similar simulative goals as well (versatile and finesse weapon properties, disadvantage on small characters using heavy weapons) but with, I think, a bit less overhead and fine detail.

I also wouldn't call skills handwaved. An important distinction between the two games is that the 5e is oriented around a "stat check" (d20+stat mod). That is the game's primary mechanical focus. PC wants to do something that the DM feels needs a check to determine success - he assigns a stat check. Even combat is fundamentally driven by the stat check, as are saving throws. But every situation in which a proficiency could apply (proficiency in a weapon, proficiency in a tool, proficiency in an area of skill/knowledge), the PC gets to add their level-based proficiency bonus. In many cases, particularly with skills and knowledge, the DM has a lot of discretion on which proficiencies may apply and what DC seems appropriate. But this really isn't that far a step from the d20-based PF. I'd even say it harkens nicely back to some of the skill/check guidelines that first came out with D&D 3.0 and drifted away when the content from the PH and DMG got combined and condensed into the single PF Core Rulebook.


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Straph wrote:


Yes I'm on my own side. Still makes it two sides.

Existence doesn't imply anything about equivalency of the sides, though. Certainly not as far as the validity of the viewpoints they present.


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EvilMinion wrote:

Cause then he'll be one point over.

going from an 8 to a 7 returns 2 points.

Ah, I was assuming he was starting with a 7 as a result of a stat penalty. So I figured he'd really be going from a 9 to a 10 and then applying the penalty...


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Hi, spinningdice.
I'd like to pitch the idea of playing a gnome warlock - fey pact.

Keegan lived a life he thought was interesting. Selling minor unguents and remedies brought plenty of people by with their interesting stories. But Keegan found this stable life took its toll, for after an extended period of illness, he found he had starting bleaching.
Horrified by his revelation, Keegan got religion - sort of. He sold his shop and embarked on a mission to reinvigorate himself. Hoping that a connection to the First World might do the trick, Keegan invested in rituals that would pierce the barrier and enable him to return from his gnomish exile. It was only a partial success for, instead of passing through, he made contact with Shyka the Many* and was made an offer - a piece of Shyka's power to develop, and if successful, grow into an aspect of the fickle master of time himself.
With a fey pact in hand, so to speak, Keegan completed his effort to get religion and dedicated his life to seeking adventure and travel, to follow Desna, and that brings him to the Swallowtail Festival...

*Shyka the Many is referred to in Kingmaker 6: Sound of a Thousand Screams.


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Why would you not increase the 7 to an 8 and use that point? Is having a -2 that much more important than having a -1?


And don't forget that the dire corby up on the parapet is sleeping and will only be doing so for a few minutes.


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Valandil Ancalime wrote:
Could the "4 HD of creatures" in Sleep be interpreted as a "specific number of creatures" in Swarm?

I wouldn't. 4 HD worth of those critters should be a swarm's worth.

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