Ultimate Intrigue—Vigilante Playtest Round 2!

Thursday, July 9, 2015


Illustration by Miroslav Petrov

Almost three weeks ago, the vigilantes of the world struck out from the shadows and began to carve their own niches in a new open playtest. After plenty of feedback and several playtests of the vigilante, the vigilante returned to his lair to recover from his wounds and prepare his toolbox for his next greatest challenge... and so, the vigilante returns, with more tricks than ever before!

For those of you familiar with the first playtest vigilante, there's some huge changes in the new versions. In my opinion, the biggest of all was the change to the social identity. The first round vigilante received set abilities in his social identities, but many playtesters pointed out that every vigilante has a slightly-different take on their social identity, so maybe they won't all have abilities befitting of Bruce Wayne. The new version of the vigilante allows each vigilante to choose from a list of social talents at odd levels, to complement his vigilante talents at even levels. This allows you to prioritize the social abilities that are perfect for your own vigilante's social identity. For instance, you can gain the ability to switch identities quickly at a lower level... speaking of which, however, leads me to the second and perhaps more important part of the change in how identities work. In the new version of the vigilante, it only takes 1 minute to change identities even at 1st level (down from 5 minutes). But beyond that, as many of you suggested in the discussion threads, vigilantes can now use all their vigilante abilities in their social identity; they just risk being exposed if they do!

The other huge change is to the zealot specialization. In the first round, playtesters pointed out that the zealot didn't have enough of its own identity as a specialization like the others did, and too many of the abilities were similar to those of previous classes. Following some very clever suggestions from the playtest forums, the revamped zealot, inspired by superheroes with divine origins, chooses one of four potential sources for his power and gains a special ability, new talent options, and some changes to his spells known based on his choice. Whether you play an abyssal zealot with claws (and the ability to gain rend!) or a fey zealot with the ability to turn invisible while moving, the choice is yours!

There are a number of other smaller changes within the talents and specializations as well. Together they add up. For instance, many playtests of the stalker indicated that its unique talents allowed it to play differently than the playtester first expected, and now, with a few new talents, the specific ability to do full hidden strike damage on every attack against a foe affected by startling appearance, and upgraded damage on a full hidden strike (d8s instead of d6s), the stalker continues its path of darkness. Meanwhile, the avenger has gained some upgrades and consolidation of key talents that grant him some powerful abilities. For instance, now if you take hard to kill, you don't just gain Die Hard; you gain other powers like the ability to wait a round before dying of hit point damage (during which you can heal it off). The warlock's biggest change is to the powerful mystic bolts option, which now allows you to use it in conjunction with way more other abilities and ignores spell resistance, in return for a decrease in damage that is more-or-less cancelled by the ability to use it with the arcane striker talent (which you previously couldn't) alone!

So whatever style of vigilante you might be, whatever secret hides within your fragmented heart, find the strength within yourself to go forth and right the wrongs you crave to right... or, you know, commit those wrongs; we don't discriminate against evil vigilantes!

Roleplaying Guild Vigilantes

As we announced in the last playtest blog this version of the vigilante is legal for play in the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild. The Chronicle sheet for the vigilante is now available for all participating in the playtest in organized play! Go ahead and grab it now!

Download the Chronicle sheet147kb zip/PDF

The official playtest period ends on July 20th, but we'd love for you to keep playing through August 17th; when you're through, you can post new discoveries and final thoughts (once per person) in a special thread. This allows us to continue to apply your most important ideas and latebreaking discoveries later into the design process than usual and makes them easy to find!

In honor of the new round of the playtest, I think I'm going to make a dedicated stalker thread to have some stalker chats with you guys. See you there!

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Tags: Miroslav Petrov Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Vigilantes
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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm very excited for these changes, but I just checked the playtest document in my downloads.........Did you guys update that yet? Or is there not going to be an update to the playtest document?

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Awesome on the chronicle, including rebuild note, retroactive credit, and bonus credit for playing sooner than later.


Is this a separate document or is the doc just not updated yet?

Silver Crusade

Very happy. Am i missing the new playtest document somewhere?

Also the two lines for Playtest before July 20th.... is that for each playtest?

Community & Digital Content Director

The document available from the playtest page is now updated. If you had it in your downloads already, all you'll need to do is redownload. Apologies for any confusion there!

Paizo Employee Developer

JakBlitz wrote:

Very happy. Am i missing the new playtest document somewhere?

Also the two lines for Playtest before July 20th.... is that for each playtest?

Each time you fulfill the playtesting conditions noted above on that Chronicle sheet before July 20th, you can fill in two lines instead of one. Played once at level 7+? Fill in both of those lines. Played a week later at level 3+? Fill in both of those lines.

That early playtest data is valuable, and we want to acknowledge that in how the Chronicle sheet functions.

Silver Crusade

John Compton wrote:
JakBlitz wrote:

Very happy. Am i missing the new playtest document somewhere?

Also the two lines for Playtest before July 20th.... is that for each playtest?

Each time you fulfill the playtesting conditions noted above on that Chronicle sheet before July 20th, you can fill in two lines instead of one. Played once at level 7+? Fill in both of those lines. Played a week later at level 3+? Fill in both of those lines.

That early playtest data is valuable, and we want to acknowledge that in how the Chronicle sheet functions.

Awesome. Just wish my Vigilante was higher lvl.


The new document hasn't replaced the old one in the Ultimate Intrigue Playtest, at least for me.

Liberty's Edge

Chris Lambertz wrote:
The document available from the playtest page is now updated. If you had it in your downloads already, all you'll need to do is redownload. Apologies for any confusion there!

Just did, but the document within (that says modified today) doesn't reflect the changes mentioned in the blog. I confused.

Silver Crusade

Am also having difficulties.


Also having issues with the document being the same.

Liberty's Edge

Same boat for me.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It looks like they accidentally put it in the Occult Adventures Playtest, I note mine says it was updated today, and when I downloaded it, I got the Round 2 document.

Interesting updates for the Zealot, need to look at the social talents more closely.


Confirmed. its under the Occult Adventures Playtest download in "Your Downloads"


The file in my downloads isn't the new version. So I think everyone is having the same issue with the download. Maybe make a new file name for it would fix the problem?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For Fey Touch, it reads, "unless it succeeds at a Will saving throw (DC = 1/2 the zealot’s vigilante level + the zealot vigilante’s Charisma modifier)." Shouldn't this be 10 + 1/2 the zealot's vigilante level + the zealot vigilante's Charisma modifier? (it should probably also be either zealot vigilante's or zealot's vigilante, but that's comparatively minor).


It's working for me! New Ultimate Intrigue PDF and even says Round 2 in the first page.

Designer

Luthorne wrote:
For Fey Touch, it reads, "unless it succeeds at a Will saving throw (DC = 1/2 the zealot’s vigilante level + the zealot vigilante’s Charisma modifier)." Shouldn't this be 10 + 1/2 the zealot's vigilante level + the zealot vigilante's Charisma modifier? (it should probably also be either zealot vigilante's or zealot's vigilante, but that's comparatively minor).

Yes it should be 10 + 1/2 the zealot's vigilante level + the zealot vigilante's Charisma modifier.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Loving the updates. Very nicely done! Need to take some time to digest everything...

I was surprised you guys removed Mad Rush, until I realized it's just hiding in the Living Shield paragraph.


Chronicle clarification request...

PFS chronicle wrote:
You may print out multiple copies of this Chronicle sheet and assign up to one per single-classed character that uses the vigilante playtest class. Each time you play an adventure with this character, have your GM fill one of the lines below that reflects your character’s level. If there is not an available line, you do not receive credit on this sheet for that adventure. If you are the GM and assigned credit to this PC, you may instead fill in a line if at least one single-class vigilante played at your table.

If I apply this at level 1 to a vigilante then take levels in another class can I still continue crossing off lines when playing?

Designer

Mike Lindner wrote:

Chronicle clarification request...

PFS chronicle wrote:
You may print out multiple copies of this Chronicle sheet and assign up to one per single-classed character that uses the vigilante playtest class. Each time you play an adventure with this character, have your GM fill one of the lines below that reflects your character’s level. If there is not an available line, you do not receive credit on this sheet for that adventure. If you are the GM and assigned credit to this PC, you may instead fill in a line if at least one single-class vigilante played at your table.
If I apply this at level 1 to a vigilante then take levels in another class can I still continue crossing off lines when playing?

Just like last time, has to be single-classed. The journeys of Bob, the 10th level Unchained rogue who also took 1 level of fey zealot to turn invisible during a move are far less useful to us than the journeys of Bob the 10th level zealot vigilante.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Mike Lindner wrote:

Chronicle clarification request...

PFS chronicle wrote:
You may print out multiple copies of this Chronicle sheet and assign up to one per single-classed character that uses the vigilante playtest class. Each time you play an adventure with this character, have your GM fill one of the lines below that reflects your character’s level. If there is not an available line, you do not receive credit on this sheet for that adventure. If you are the GM and assigned credit to this PC, you may instead fill in a line if at least one single-class vigilante played at your table.
If I apply this at level 1 to a vigilante then take levels in another class can I still continue crossing off lines when playing?
Just like last time, has to be single-classed. The journeys of Bob, the 10th level Unchained rogue who also took 1 level of fey zealot to turn invisible during a move are far less useful to us than the journeys of Bob the 10th level zealot vigilante.

That makes sense. I am assuming I can continue playing the character after the end of the playtest though, since I did already play as a single-classed vigilante (filling in at least one line on the chronicle), correct?

Designer

Mike Lindner wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Mike Lindner wrote:

Chronicle clarification request...

PFS chronicle wrote:
You may print out multiple copies of this Chronicle sheet and assign up to one per single-classed character that uses the vigilante playtest class. Each time you play an adventure with this character, have your GM fill one of the lines below that reflects your character’s level. If there is not an available line, you do not receive credit on this sheet for that adventure. If you are the GM and assigned credit to this PC, you may instead fill in a line if at least one single-class vigilante played at your table.
If I apply this at level 1 to a vigilante then take levels in another class can I still continue crossing off lines when playing?
Just like last time, has to be single-classed. The journeys of Bob, the 10th level Unchained rogue who also took 1 level of fey zealot to turn invisible during a move are far less useful to us than the journeys of Bob the 10th level zealot vigilante.
That makes sense. I am assuming I can continue playing the character after the end of the playtest though, since I did already play as a single-classed vigilante (filling in at least one line on the chronicle), correct?

Yup, that's the first reward.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Loving the changes. Now I wish I had started my PbP playtest with a Zealot instead of a Warlock! The Zealot now holds much more promise in my opinion than it did before.

I also enjoy that the Stalker now deals MORE damage with hidden strike when the foe is unaware, but LESS damage than a rogue when simply flanking. Gives you a reason to truly consider whether you'd prefer to be a rogue or a Stalker vigilante. :)

Ooh, and I like cunning feint! Not sure if that was in the first version of the playtest, but I just noticed it. Very cool!

Oh man, and so is "Leave an Opening!" What a great way to get extra attacks when surrounded by enemies!


Shiny

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Ooh, I totally want to play a CG Fey Zealot who can smite evil... I just don't know if I want to play it enough to use the GM credit I was saving for my Occultist.

Curses!


I would have preferred if Domain had remained an option for the Zealot.
Does the divine power chosen provide an extra talent at 1st level, or the Zealot selects the base divine power as his first talent at 2nd level? Must his deity's alignment be appropriate only for his vigilante identity, and not for his social identity too?
Also: so now the social and vigilante alignment can be one step removed in DIAGONALS too? That's something new... O_o


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I hope we will still be getting the Medium blog today as well.


Looking over the play test, the first thing that jumps out is the loosening of the alignment restrictions. THANK YOU. This opens up so many more character options!


Brew Bird wrote:
Looking over the play test, the first thing that jumps out is the loosening of the alignment restrictions. THANK YOU. This opens up so many more character options!

The first thing I noticed is how Avenger failed to change in any meaningful way.

Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
zergtitan wrote:
I hope we will still be getting the Medium blog today as well.

But that would have required me to write two blog posts for the same day. Can either you or I handle that kind of confluence?


Do GM's judging a table with a vigilante also get to fill in 2 lines for one adventure efore July 20, or is that only for playing as a vigilante?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
zergtitan wrote:
I hope we will still be getting the Medium blog today as well.
But that would have required me to write two blog posts for the same day. Can either you or I handle that kind of confluence?

so does that mean its been moved to Friday? :(

Contributor

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Ah! You gave the warlock's familiar a social identity! Someone read my feedback! :D

You gentlemen really outdid yourself on the social talents. They're all very cool and helpful. I think the vigilante could make due with some more talents that didn't lean so heavily on the renown social talent, but overall great stuff. I like that the vigilante can actually make for a more effective social character early on.

I like the zealot's divine power sources from a quick read, although there definitely need to be more in the final cut; its looking like this might be the divine equivalent to the bloodrager, which is exciting. You might want to consider a "clandestine" divine power or something, however, for players who are still looking for that "secret cultist" feel.

Warlock still looks pretty empty in regards to how many talents it has available to it and I suspect that zealot is in a similar boat as a result of most of its old talents getting scrapped for specialization-specific options. This could be problematic for the class's post-Ultimate Intrigue design. For example, if Owen decides that he REALLY wants to see a Daemonic Divine Power (because who WOULDN'T want to be empowered by the Four Horsemen). In addition to having to create a new divine power, he'd also have to create a slew of new zealot-specific talents to compliment the Daemonic Divine Power because it wouldn't be able to choose any of the Abyssal or Infernal zealot talents because those all have specific, divine power prerequisites.

Its also weird that the fey divine power alters the spell list, but not the spells known. Even if you have a different set of powers, the fey zealot is behind one spell per level when compared to the other three divine powers. A simple solution would be to tie the zealot spell list to the divine power for all divine powers. Maybe celestial could be cleric + paladin, abyssal and infernal could be cleric + antipaladin, fey could be druid + ranger, then that "clandestine" one that I mentioned could be inquisitor. Overall, that concept of varying spell lists is super cool and could help GMs make it even MORE difficult for PCs to guess what, exactly, they're fighting when they go head-to-head with a zealot.

Also, it would be nice for some of those other class features to come back. Zealots with warpriest blessings make too much sense to me, personally.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

So does this mean we can keep filling out lines after July 20th till August 17th but get 2 for 1 before the 20th?

Designer

Alexander Augunas wrote:


Its also weird that the fey divine power alters the spell list, but not the spells known. Even if you have a different set of powers, the fey zealot is behind one spell per level when compared to the other three divine powers. A simple solution would be to tie the zealot spell list to the divine power for all divine powers. Maybe celestial could be cleric + paladin, abyssal and infernal could be cleric + antipaladin, fey could be druid + ranger, then that "clandestine" one that I mentioned could be inquisitor....

When I was looking at what Stephen did there, in my mind the early-access ranger spells and the extraordinary power of the fey base ability seemed a good match for getting 1 fewer spell known per level.

Designer

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Azouth wrote:
So does this mean we can keep filling out lines after July 20th till August 17th but get 2 for 1 before the 20th?

You sure can!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:


Its also weird that the fey divine power alters the spell list, but not the spells known. Even if you have a different set of powers, the fey zealot is behind one spell per level when compared to the other three divine powers. A simple solution would be to tie the zealot spell list to the divine power for all divine powers. Maybe celestial could be cleric + paladin, abyssal and infernal could be cleric + antipaladin, fey could be druid + ranger, then that "clandestine" one that I mentioned could be inquisitor....
When I was looking at what Stephen did there, in my mind the early-access ranger spells and the extraordinary power of the fey base ability seemed a good match for getting 1 fewer spell known per level.

I agree that a better solution is to buff the other divine powers to include the paladin lists + cleric lists.

This not only makes them more balanced against each other, but it makes them more unique compared to other classes with divine spellcasting, which is a lot.


Is anyone else still having trouble getting the new playest document? I just downloaded a new copy and I'm still getting the old document.

Edit: Nevermind. Just downloaded for a 3rd time and I got the new version this time.


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Matrix Dragon wrote:
Is anyone else still having trouble getting the new playest document? I just downloaded a new copy and I'm still getting the old document.

Mine was in the Occult adventures playtest.

Scarab Sages

I am really excited, can't wait to go through the new document.

Contributor

Mark Seifter wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:


Its also weird that the fey divine power alters the spell list, but not the spells known. Even if you have a different set of powers, the fey zealot is behind one spell per level when compared to the other three divine powers. A simple solution would be to tie the zealot spell list to the divine power for all divine powers. Maybe celestial could be cleric + paladin, abyssal and infernal could be cleric + antipaladin, fey could be druid + ranger, then that "clandestine" one that I mentioned could be inquisitor....
When I was looking at what Stephen did there, in my mind the early-access ranger spells and the extraordinary power of the fey base ability seemed a good match for getting 1 fewer spell known per level.

I don't think early-access ranger spells should be considered a balancing point since the fey zealot spellcasting is, in all ways, identical to the hunter's spell list, who also has animal focuses, an animal companion, and all summon nature's ally spells from Level 1 to 6.

In discussion of the 1st-level ability of the fey power, if its THAT much stronger than the others that it justifies loosing one spell known per level, then I'd suggest toning it down. Alterations and trade-offs like that are great for archetypes and expansions to a class after its been established, but having a "trade-off" like that built into the base class doesn't feel right, like its incomplete or an omission. It would be as if the aberrant bloodrager had a slightly better 1st-level bloodline power and no bonus bloodline spells. Rather than looking cool, I'm willing to bet that it would unfortunately be regarded as if you gentleman simply forgot to give that bloodline bonus spells.

Maybe consider repurposing vanishing step into a vigilante talent and giving the fey divine power a new 1st-level ability and bonus spells known?


wow love the social talents!
love the stalker stuff so far too

random comments on what i liked:

Love the "either or" metamagic style. Leaves pleasent options open.
Sorta sad that you only ever get 1 lv 6 spell (plus int) still. But it is a nice symmetry number.BUT! you gain the ability to cast in light and later medium so personally I am totally ok with it~ Lets me build a weird idea i've had for ever. so im happy. Do worry about having so few talents if i go pure spell casting.. but ahwell see how it works out in actual play. It will be hard to be "what I want to be" before lv 8 or 10 though. mystic bolt, hidden casting, nonlethal casting, and the actual casting talents. I wonder how the DC's hold up. I need to check access levels to other spell casting classes (don't have them memorized off when they get what spell levels). would be neat if they got access roughly same time as wiz or sorc, just never reach their height of power.

Love the mystic bolt too. SU is a lot simplier. Shame damage went way lower, but they're affected by normal ranged weapon feats and arcane striker. So I"m pretty happy with it. Though it'll lead to a lot of TWF bolters I imagine. but not that big of a deal.


thoughts of stuff I would like to appear later:

Might be neat to have a mystic bolt "sniper" option. Increases range (because it's max 30, not increment 30 right?) forgoes TWF ability and goes back to 1d6+LV for the sniper option. For an option for a Warlock who is further back support wise (though really could just use bow +conductive I guess)

I sort of wish that Nonlethal spellcasting had also allowed nonlethal mystic bolts. I'd love to be Static Shock style person. Focusing on lightning and "tasering" people into submission via spell and attack. granted with how nonlethal works I just have to try timing the damage so it doesn't overload. so not that much of a thing


========

Question on Warlock
"His spells are drawn from the sorcerer/
wizard spell list, presented in Chapter 10 of the Core
Rulebook."
Does that mean he only gains the spells listed in the corebook and no access to spells from say ultimate or advanced lines?

I really want to try this and haven't really any options. I need to look up PFS stuff and see if I can find one where I moved recently.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I am excited to test drive the new vigilante, the zealot has flavour now beyond inquisitor lite.

Now how do I change my head into a flaming skull, and how do I get a burning skeletal horse mount?

Sovereign Court

Awesome updates. Now I just want to know what this "Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild" is...


Illeist wrote:
Awesome updates. Now I just want to know what this "Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild" is...

same

are dues required
are shirt and shoes required

Sovereign Court

This could be a troubling ruling. I primarily run PFS in my boxers for my wee puppet friends.

Grand Lodge

So I honestly thought that Mad Rush was gone, but it's actually just unfinished editing. It's in the same paragraph as Living Shield instead of having it's own separate category. I still feel a -6 to AC for pounce is rather much. Especially considering you have to be 12th level to get it. If it was allowed at a lower level, and the penalty diminished by 2 at 12th, then maybe. At that level you're fighting large and huge creatures that will very much take AoO on you, and essentially nothing short of a 1 will miss. Even Dodge and Mobility barely help to mitigate that.

Glad to finally see the Chronicle Sheet. Time to do some retconning.

Also, when the final product comes out, PLEASE!!! have more Social talents available at levels 1-5. Nothing's more frustrating than seeing talents that are only available at level 7 and higher for 3/4 of the list. Every vigilante is practically guaranteed to have the same social talent at 1, 3, and 5. You might as well just give them those automatically as class abilities, and start the talent selection at level 7.

Paizo Employee Developer

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Illeist wrote:
This could be a troubling ruling. I primarily run PFS in my boxers for my wee puppet friends.

*Doesn't want to make more updates to the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play...might have to add another update to the guide...*


I would never want to be a part of any guild that would have me as a member

but srsly

is this what PFS stands for now or is it something else

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