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This is great. I LOVE dungeon dressing and the mimic goes perfectly with this!
Really looking forward to this! My days of using Lego chests in my games will soon be over.
Glad you're enjoying your vacation, and thanks for making time for us junkies nonetheless!
Both great picks. I figured that a chest was inevitable, and while I already have more than enough chests for my needs (between the Lords of Madness chest, Dwarven Forge, and Mage Knight), I'm sure there will be lots of people out there who will need these. And the Mimic! That's awesome. It's really kind of remarkable that no one has done a prepainted mimic till now. Overdue.
Of course, now you need the Bed mimic, the Door mimic, the Birdcage mimic.....
The props and stuff are pretty snazzy. I don't typically use prepainted minis but I'd make an exception for these. So I'm wondering how common (ie. expensive) will they be once they become available for individual purchase? If they're in a comparable price range with the Reaper props I'll be all over this.
Really looking forward to this! My days of using Lego chests in my games will soon be over.
I had never really thought about it, but LEGO chests are not a bad fit for big chests. That said, I'm still really looking forward to this.
Sold! This is fun :)
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I'm glad to see these two pieces, kind of hoped we may see a proper mimic. Chest is a bonus. Is it medium sized or small? I know the old D&D line did a similar thing but it was only a small mini.
If that mimic even matches that digital it will be a great mini, and spot on for rarity, at medium I should get 3 in a case. Hats off to you and wizkids.
My days of using Lego chests in my games will soon be over.
I will still be using my Lego chests. I really like the gold one tbh. But yes, this chest will join the mix next to my DDM and Lego and other chests.
As for the mimic, man that does look good. I am really looking forward to seeing the actual mini now.
I wonder if Wizkids might be willing to chance their arm at a builder series or encounter pack based around the dungeon dressing pieces/repaints.
I know it's earlier than early days, but they seem to be being well received, and given the rarity in this set (plus the relative paucity of such minis from earlier PPM releases) it might prove more profitable than the undead/goblin attempts.
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
*gasp*
...oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
Great minis!
Still hoping for a door/portal-like dungeon dressing.
Ruyan.
These are very nice! I will definitely have to put this set to use the next time we play. The trouble with mimics is that I am always tempted to use them too much. I find they work best just as the players forget/don't think about them existing. Then, BAM! Nail em with a mean greedy pc eating mimic. Hehe
Erik, (or other lesser powers that be)'
When these sets come out, in addition to cases, does Paizo get boxes of loose figures to sell/give away? I seem to recall your Gen Con promo just came in a poly bag, handed out from big boxes. So just curious and all if you're opening up many cases --> bricks --> boxes to get individual minis to sell of if it is easier than that.
I wonder if Wizkids might be willing to chance their arm at a builder series or encounter pack based around the dungeon dressing pieces/repaints.
I know it's earlier than early days, but they seem to be being well received, and given the rarity in this set (plus the relative paucity of such minis from earlier PPM releases) it might prove more profitable than the undead/goblin attempts.
I wonder the same.
Also, if there's any interest in producing a non-random pack of some/all of the dungeon dressings? That is something I would buy (assuming the sarcophogus and brazier were in that set).
I would think a Builder Series release is out (that model just doesn't serve either of the two type of buyers well), but future non-random small encounter sets could feature dungeon dressing. Right now they still need to see if the dungeon dressing miniatures are reliably wanted on the market before they drop the rarity or release them as encounter sets. My prediction is these will see good demand and we can see less rare dungeon dressing figures in future sets.
My prediction is these will see good demand and we can see less rare dungeon dressing figures in future sets.
Yeah, I think so too. (Unfortunately, for me). I'm hoping an encounter set or builder series will be another avenue for getting them to those who want them - I agree an encounter set is likely to go down better than a builder series.
Great minis!
Still hoping for a door/portal-like dungeon dressing.
Ruyan.
Ruyan, there's a portal mini for the old dungeons and dragons miniatures. Might be able to find it online for sale.
Wizkids has released a non-random dungeon dressing pack before, for their Mage Knight line. I don't know how it did then, but they still sell for a good price on Ebay, which suggests there are in fact people out there willing to pay for such a thing. But if they got stung on that last time, they might be wary of doing it again. On the other hand, my own view is that the stuff they put in the 2 packs they did before was often stuff you'd only want 1 of, and some of it was pretty peculiar (the second set more so than the first.) If they did a non-random set where everything in it was stuff people want multiples of (braziers, pillars, tables, chairs, chests, doors, stairs, coffins/sarcophagi, etc., and I'd add non-man-made stuff like stalagmites, mushrooms, and crystals -- which Paizo could make a gazillion different promo repaints of, btw), I think they'd make a killing.
And one more thing: If you need doors, there are free pdf's you can download at places like onemonk.com which you can print on cardstock as many times as you like, and with a little cutting and gluing, you very quickly have as many doors as you could ever need.
My prediction is these will see good demand and we can see less rare dungeon dressing figures in future sets.Yeah, I think so too. (Unfortunately, for me). I'm hoping an encounter set or builder series will be another avenue for getting them to those who want them - I agree an encounter set is likely to go down better than a builder series.
Problem is that rarity is usually linked to production costs (complexity). The builder series gave us a whole bunch of reasonably cheap minis in bulk. Goblins, skeletons, zombies... things that weren't the hardest to make. There just wasn't ever a "box of rares, repainted".
I fear that we have the same problem here. The chests look fairly simple but the sarcophagi for instance don't. I can't see how the economics will allow for any of us to buy a box with these things in them at a reasonable price to buy in bulk.
In Erik I trust, though. So we'll see what happens, but at this point, with what's been announced, I suspect these will be very hard to get our hands on for less than a kidney, even though some people will get them who don't want them.
I mean seriously, I kind of want eight or so sarcophagi. And a half-dozen chests. Under $10 each is marginally justifiable. Over... not going to happen for me, and I don't see these ever getting there.
The enthusiasm for yet another new product type is extremely pleasing to see. As always, I think we'll have to wait a bit to get an idea of how in-demand these truly are.
For the sake of argument, let us assume the dungeon dressing pieces are popular once in play, and thus prove to be "chase" pieces on the singles market.
Here is something to consider when deciding on a possible expansion of Dungeon Dressing:
Is six a good number, or can we afford to increase the amount of dungeon dressing pieces per case?
This one is very important, and I feel it has been overlooked by many enthusiastic posters these past couple weeks. There appears to be an assumption made by many that if dungeon dressing prove to be popular, Paizo/Wizkids will increase the total number per case. This seems to be the fall-back plan for some board posters, while the most obvious answer for others.
But there is a problem with this line of thought. These pieces of dungeon dressing are not in addition to the 128 total miniatures normally in a case of the Battles line. These eight pieces will instead take the place of a miniature that would otherwise be one of the 44 different sculpts--and therefore one of the 128 total pieces--found in the base set. So basically, a case can generally be expected to contain 120 pieces from the 44-piece set, and eight pieces of dungeon dressing from the special six-piece set. The more total pieces of dungeon dressing in a case, the fewer pieces there will be from the main Battles line.
So what's the issue?
The problem is that by subtracting pieces from the base set, Paizo/Wizkids is tampering with a tried and true formula that works. Erik has recently said that the Battles line itself remains pretty strong. That strength is likely what allows Paizo and Wizkids to try new endeavors, such as the dungeon dressing mini-set. However, caution is advised when determining how far to disrupt the balance of the current formula. Subtracting too many total pieces from the base set could indeed displease the base clientele.
Here is the breakdown of what will likely be replaced in the Dungeons Deep base set:
2 Large-sized Uncommon miniatures
2 Medium-sized Uncommon miniatures
4 Medium-sized Common miniatures
While that might not initially seem detrimental, the possible loss of an extra Frost Giant or Dire Boar is somewhat disheartening for me. After all, as a person that doesn't use non-creature types of miniatures in his sessions, this entire dungeon dressing line has left me cautiously optimistic. The pieces look great, and because they fit into the whole fantasy-aspect of the genre, I'm willing to give them a try. But even should I end up loving their inclusion in my campaigns from here on out, I'd always rather have that extra Frost Giant.
I'm a team player, and Paizo has proven themselves a company that is willing to try new things (that often times work out). As such, I can understand the inclusion and the excitement of such a mini-set from here on out. Even if they don't work out for me personally, it sounds as if there could be enough interest for them that they might become easy to unload on the singles market.
Having said all this, if more and more of the total pieces of the base Battles line are replaced with Dungeon Dressing pieces in the future, then I'll likely become discouraged. Even if I like the pieces for what they are, and can find a use for them in my campaigns, I'll always prefer the multiples of monsters to that of non-monsters. At some point there will no doubt be a cut-off point where I stop buying cases.
My intent with this post is not to rain on anyone's enthusiasm parade. I merely wish to provide a point-of-view from a collector DM that has never used Item pieces in his campaigns before.
My prediction is these will see good demand and we can see less rare dungeon dressing figures in future sets.Yeah, I think so too. (Unfortunately, for me). I'm hoping an encounter set or builder series will be another avenue for getting them to those who want them - I agree an encounter set is likely to go down better than a builder series.Problem is that rarity is usually linked to production costs (complexity). The builder series gave us a whole bunch of reasonably cheap minis in bulk. Goblins, skeletons, zombies... things that weren't the hardest to make. There just wasn't ever a "box of rares, repainted".
I fear that we have the same problem here. The chests look fairly simple but the sarcophagi for instance don't. I can't see how the economics will allow for any of us to buy a box with these things in them at a reasonable price to buy in bulk.
In Erik I trust, though. So we'll see what happens, but at this point, with what's been announced, I suspect these will be very hard to get our hands on for less than a kidney, even though some people will get them who don't want them.
I mean seriously, I kind of want eight or so sarcophagi. And a half-dozen chests. Under $10 each is marginally justifiable. Over... not going to happen for me, and I don't see these ever getting there.
You make a good point. Probably wishful thinking on my part.
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The only real concern for me in general with these releases is that I'd prefer rarity to match usage better. IOW, I'd much prefer to get 5 chests and 1 mimic then the other way around (since the mimic is treated as a creature and not dungeon dressing). It's been an issue in other releases where I think I got 5 falcons, 5 owls, and 6 ravens. If dungeon dressing takes the place of some like the above, I'd easily prefer it.
The only real concern for me in general with these releases is that I'd prefer rarity to match usage better. IOW, I'd much prefer to get 5 chests and 1 mimic then the other way around (since the mimic is treated as a creature and not dungeon dressing). It's been an issue in other releases where I think I got 5 falcons, 5 owls, and 6 ravens. If dungeon dressing takes the place of some like the above, I'd easily prefer it.
The problem is, there is no guarantee which pieces the Dungeon Dressing will take the place of in any given set. As I mentioned, the likely replacement breakdown looks like this:
2 Large-sized Uncommon miniatures
2 Medium-sized Uncommon miniatures
4 Medium-sized Common miniatures
Using the most recent Battles set released, The Lost Coast, I can't find enough creatures I would have been okay losing, with regards to rarity vs. usage. The only Uncommon Large monster in that set I would have wanted fewer of is the Leucrotta. And I'm pretty sure that is only because I wasn't as familiar with it as some of the others, and it isn't something I've used in my campaigns before. Perhaps I'd have been okay with losing one of my Malugus Kreeg miniatures in exchange for a beautiful piece of dungeon dressing. The trouble is there is no guarantee those two Large Uncommon pieces wouldn't have replaced a Troll and Giant Frilled Lizard, two of my most used pieces from the set. (I use the giants, too, but I already had some of the same types from other sets, so the need wasn't as great).
Likewise, out of the eight different Uncommon Medium miniatures in the Lost Coast line, the only two pieces I could have used less of were the Shifty Noble and City Watch Sniper. And the latter piece is an issue of hindsight only, due to half the ones I received suffering from a severe lean. Before the product released, it was one of the NPC-types I was most excited to receive.
I received five Green Hags, typically the sweet spot for the number of high-use monster miniatures in my campaigns. Still, I could have used one fewer of her and maybe one fewer of the Squealy Nord pig. (Although the more pigs the better for me, I realize that's atypical in comparison to most other collectors.) Aside from that my numbers came out pretty desirable in relation to the rarity vs. usage spectrum.
As for those animals, part of that I think was Erik appeasing us fans that were clamoring like crazy for more animals in our collections. That set was the first set of a reduced number, from the previous 55 down to 45 different sculpts. As a result, Erik said he had to cut out ten already planned sculpts. It's likely a handful of the scratched pieces weren't animals, and I really think it wouldn't have felt so weighted down with animals had the cuts not have been made. Still, for as much complaining as I've heard regarding the amount of animals in that set, many of them are out-of-stock when I browse through on the various websites that sell single miniatures.
As I've said a few times since the announcement of the Dungeon Dressing mini-set that will now be included in the Pathfinder Battles line, I am cautiously optimistic. Perhaps some of my apprehension stems from the fact that I've never before used Item miniatures in my campaigns.
I spent over twelve years playing and running campaigns that didn't use miniatures. On a whim, I sat down one day and played in one that did. I. Was. Hooked. Within a year, I had dropped over three thousand dollars on miniature collections off Ebay, and snapping up as many different Paizo Battles line products as I could.
So maybe I'll have a similar experience with these Dungeon Dressing pieces. (Minus the massive cost).
It's become apparent over the last several weeks that using Item miniatures in a campaign is old hat for many of you. So I'd like to take this moment and ask for ideas and suggestions on how to incorporate them into my campaigns. In what ways do you use them? Many of you appear to want more than the planned amount of the dungeon dressing pieces. Does this mean you'd use five different treasure chests in a room, or one for each room in your dungeon that has treasure? Do you find that this encourages metagaming, even amongst experienced players? How do you plan to incorporate the Burning Brazier piece?
I know that as a collector of miniatures, I'll likely love adding each and every one of these pieces to my collection. But I'd love to get even more excited about them, and thus I'd love to hear as many different ideas and strategies as possible.
Pigraven, just take a look at Dwarven Forge's website, and you'll quickly get an idea of what's possible. But hide your wallet first :-p
Pigraven, the way I run battlemats involves a large quantity of Lego. I use bits to map out walls on the grid, showing the shape of rooms as PCs open doors. I do it with line-of-sight, so the players only see what the PCs could see from the doorway.
We've got bits we use for doors, pillars, tables... all sorts of normal "room" stuff. The walls are pretty obviously walls, but stuff inside is somewhat abstract. "That is a sarcophagus." Or "that is an alter."
Players can't really meta beyond what you'd tell them in the first place. If you'd say "there are three chests in the room, with no obvious locks", what's wrong with putting down three chest minis? The players can't know if the floor is trapped between them and their pathing matters, or if the chests are trapped, or illusions, or mimics, or just bait.
Nothing changes except it looks better.
Also, you can see some pictures of a 3D build I did with cardstock buildings and tiles here, and it includes a fair bit of dressing as well. Players go ape for this sort of thing.
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I'm not saying people doing want figures for animals, it's the quantity that is the issue. Are people buying 16 of the birds like I got, or just one or two of each? I want the figures, but I have far more of them than I will ever use. That's not useful to me, esp. when I'd easily use a falcon to represent a raven or vice versa.
I'd easily give up any of those birds for dungeon dressing figures. I'd even give up trolls (already have them from multiple Battles sources) or giving up an extra rare slot as I really only want one chieftain giant or ogre figure. So getting 4-5 mimcs and only 1 chest seems really skewed to me.
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So Erik is you're reading this would there be decent chances of a Bandersnatch promo gargantuan in the future? I know I'd be at least two.
The builder series gave us a whole bunch of reasonably cheap minis in bulk. Goblins, skeletons, zombies...
Anguish, you also hit on the problem with the builder sets. I already had a whole bunch of goblins, skeletons, zombies, etc. Paizo & WizKids didn't take into account all the sets their competitor released before. I'd guess the goblins did better than the rest. There's lots of unique art in Paizo's goblin collection. I bought a few, albeit from the after-market. Still, that probably drove the sales of the goblin builder series. I'm sure that has been covered in other threads.
I don't, however, have lots of chests, braziers, cauldrons, sarcophogi (-gusses?), etc. If they do a builder series, it will make them cheaper on the aftermarket. If they do non-random packs, better for me and my local FLGS ('cause that's where I'll buy them).
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Although I fear the prices these pieces of dungeon dressing will be going for on the secondary market, I am also happy to see that the focus of the set is still on the miniatures and not the dressing..
On the plus side, I'm just happy WizKids didn't talk Erik into making these items "chase" figures, like they did with their D&D line (in which a case would only get you 4 of the 8 available ultra rare minis). A case is very expensive as is, so when I buy a case I EXPECT to get all the minis :)
I really like the idea of the dungeon dressings (the Sarcophagus is awesome), but does the chest really have a base?
I remember Erik had indicated some would have bases, some wouldn’t (on the dungeon dressings). I would think the chest would definitely be better without a base.
I really like the idea of the dungeon dressings (the Sarcophagus is awesome), but does the chest really have a base?
I remember Erik had indicated some would have bases, some wouldn’t (on the dungeon dressings). I would think the chest would definitely be better without a base.
I respectfully disagree. If the chest is on a base, it doesn't look out of place next to the mimic.
I respectfully disagree. If the chest is on a base, it doesn't look out of place next to the mimic.I really like the idea of the dungeon dressings (the Sarcophagus is awesome), but does the chest really have a base?
I remember Erik had indicated some would have bases, some wouldn’t (on the dungeon dressings). I would think the chest would definitely be better without a base.
But the Mimic is an actual creature, which I can understand the need for a base. And there would be many times you would use the chest without even having the Mimic in play (at least we would in our campaigns).
I think the dungeon dressings in general would be better without bases. There of course are situations where you need to use a base, like the cauldron (with the rocks and fire not making it as stable), but the chest should certainly be stable enough without using a base.
Kind of like the sarcophagus opens up to reveal it's contents (the mummy), I wish that the chest lid opened to reveal its contents - treasure (or mimic teeth if you're unlucky)
Erik did say in the blog:
“In a manner of speaking”, when his work colleagues asked him if the chest opened up. So it sounds like it may open up in some aspect.
Kind of like the sarcophagus opens up to reveal it's contents (the mummy), I wish that the chest lid opened to reveal its contents - treasure (or mimic teeth if you're unlucky)Erik did say in the blog:
“In a manner of speaking”, when his work colleagues asked him if the chest opened up. So it sounds like it may open up in some aspect.
I figured he was referring to the mimic in the set.
What I was getting at was if the chest and mimic both looked the same with the lid closed. Only by opening the lid would you find out what it actually was (aside from reading the name on the bottom of the base).
thats a huge can of worms for packing and shipping