Pathfinder Battles Preview: First Looks at Wrath of the Righteous!

I don't know how "loved" Alain will be, but his mini is amazing!

My personal favorite here is the Schir demon. The amount of detail on that common is out of this world!

Those all look great!!! Excited!! And I think it's wise that you're slowing down the release pace. I have more cash to spend on these little guys than your average gamer, yet I too was getting worn out by the pace. It's not just about money, either; they seem less special when they show up so quickly after the most recent set. Anyway, kudos!

Nice!! I'm going to need at least 2 of the Minotaur and at least a Dozen of the Schiir Demon (How about a demon's builder set huh?). Then all I'll need is a Pathfinder based mass battle and / or skirmish level mini's wargame that uses these minis and the Golarion setting. It's just not the same trying to retrofit other rule sets to the minis available.

My wife just saw Irabeth and squeed!

i like what i'm seeing here erik! keep it up!

6 for 6. Love all of these. Can see myself needing(?) 3-4 Alain, 10+ schir, 3-4 low Templars, 4-5 of the minotaur.

I can see Alain becoming a favourite PC mini in my group and I love the detail in the mini. I just hope the paint job will do that detail justice. As for the schir. Oh my. Continues the trend of awesome commons in the line. I can't se me needing more than 1 Irabeth but I think wizkids nailed the look - great detail, nice colours. The half-fiend minotaur looks great, kind of figured one would make the set with the Baphomet theme but I was curious as to what art would be used for the mini. As for the chimera, the scale is certainly much more imposing and it has real potential to be a gem I just hope the final paint scheme lives up to the preview - there's a lot of fine detail on the faces.

Part of me is sad to see the set delayed - the plastic addict part. My wallet may be grateful though. So can we look forward to this minis at a time in future previews?

It's cool to see Soltengrebbe (the mythic chimera) in all its plastic glory. I had fun doing a different spin on the typical chimera by reinterpreting the dragon head from fire-based to cold-based, the lion head to a snow tiger, and the typical goat to an actual high-altitude mountain ram. Piling mythic on top of that was just icing on the cake.

I understand it does not seem to be the majority view but personally I would prefer four full sets a year.

These are fantastic. I am looking forward to the rest of the set.

Every 3 months is fine by me. More minis = good.

I love the chimera, fantastic!! It's just a shame that my players will be past the half-fiend Minotaur before this set comes out.

another female in a shiny brestplate,
why no love for the male paladin players?

well, I guess they can polish Alain or re-paint him in gold

Fantastic!

I don't know which I like best. I have a thing for Chimera's and that looks to be a beauty. I like how the goat head is bending around the back. The black highlights on the White Dragon head and spots on the White Tiger are nice touches.

I look forward to the day I can drop two or three Half-fiend Minotaurs on my gaming table. The collective "oh $h!+" will be priceless. That is one menacing looking creature.

I don't believe there has ever been a Half-Orc Female Paladin made in PPM. Irabeth will be a very welcome addition. I really like the design on her shield.

The Low Templar has a lot of detail for an Uncommon. He looks great for an NPC or other low level hireling.

I want a horde of Schir Demons. This is one great looking common. From the long goat horns to the intricate polearm there is a lot to like with this mini. I am a fan of polearms anyway, so this is a plus.

The one thing that catches me about Alain is how loaded down he is. That is what you would expect from an adventurer. I could see many using this as their PC in the future.

I thought the last Legend of Golarion preview blew me away. This tops it!

Finally, the speed of how often sets are released will ultimately be based on how fast Wizkids is moving product. If they start seeing a "log jam" in inventory, they will slow it down. Has their been a "log jam" yet?

Thank you so much for slowing it down. Having a full set two months after the last set was making me really nervous about being able to keep up with my collection.

While these miniatures are way better than wizards on almost every time. There are only a couple that I prefer from their set over yours.

One request though. Some of the miniatures have a name different from the bestiary when they aren't named creatures. For instance "Fire Demon" is a Balor. "Toad Demon" is a Hezroe. "Death Demon" is a Nabasu. Unless it is a named creature, could we possibly get a FAQ or download somewhere to list the conversion to the bestiary name? I only knew what the Death Demon was because I found it in the second page of Demon's Revisited. The reason being is when I prepare for a game I search my list of miniatures to see what I have that might be appropriate. If I see an alternate name I will definitely put that in my list as well so when I search for "Balor" I will find yours and Wizard's. I would definitely use yours over Wizards. It looks much better.

Thanks

Creature names copyrighted by Wizards of the Coast (Hasbro) unique to the Dungeons & Dragons brand can only be used through the Open Gaming License (OGL). You can't put the OGL info on a miniature, so Wizkids must use a name not under copyrights. At least this is how I understand it.

So the name Mummy is not a copyrighted name thus no foul. But the name Balor is unique to D&D. D&D was under restraints too and could not use the copyrighted name Balrog. It was licensed by some obscure author's estate. ;)

another female in a shiny brestplate,

why no love for the male paladin players?

well, I guess they can polish Alain or re-paint him in gold

I think Alain "as is" would proxy very nicely for a Paladin. It is more than a little silly to expect any adventurer to not have a little grime on them.

Also, that is no ordinary female. There are precious few female Half-Orcs out there in PPMs.

It is more than a little silly to expect any adventurer to not have a little grime on them.

Sir, allow me to introduce you to a little spell called prestidigitation. My fastidious elf wizard never leaves home without it :-)

Creature names copyrighted by Wizards of the Coast (Hasbro) unique to the Dungeons & Dragons brand can only be used through the Open Gaming License (OGL). You can't put the OGL info on a miniature, so Wizkids must use a name not under copyrights. At least this is how I understand it.

So the name Mummy is not a copyrighted name thus no foul. But the name Balor is unique to D&D. D&D was under restraints too and could not use the copyrighted name Balrog. It was licensed by some obscure author's estate. ;)

I can understand that people have to be careful with the OGL licensed monsters, but if they can't mention it even a FAQ, how could they mention it in Demon's Revisited?

I wasn't asking them to use the copyrighted name on the miniature, I was asking them to have a quick list of "A in the bestiary can also be called B". That way people who don't happen to know that "fire demon" is another name for Balor, and "serpent demon" is another name for Marilith. That way they know what monster in the bestiary is what miniature.

that is no ordinary female. There are precious few female Half-Orcs out there in PPMs.

That is the only valid excuse IMO

It is more than a little silly to expect any adventurer to not have a little grime on them.

not quite ninjad by Cleanthes:

I have yet to play in a group where not at least one character is able to use "Prestidigitation" either as spell or spell like ability at the end of the adventuring day.

I can understand that people have to be careful with the OGL licensed monsters, but if they can't mention it even a FAQ, how could they mention it in Demon's Revisited?

I wasn't asking them to use the copyrighted name on the miniature, I was asking them to have a quick list of "A in the bestiary can also be called B". That way people who don't happen to know that "fire demon" is another name for Balor, and "serpent demon" is another name for Marilith. That way they know what monster in the bestiary is what miniature.

"Demons Revisited" is a game book with the OGL printed in it. Game books are covered under the OGL.

The rules are much less clear for products like miniatures (or the novels, or the adventure card game). Paizo has been extremely conscientious about avoiding any OGL grey areas. If they were to put out an "official translation list", it would also dip their toes into that grey area.

EDIT: At the very least, they would probably have to put the OGL on any such list.... but that may imply they would have to put them on the boxes for the minis. Better to avoid all of that.

Far better that you just ask on the boards, and somebody can give you alternate names. Also, most of the names on the minis are either proper names of creatures in the set's AP, or alternate names used in Paizo products (ex Xulgath is the Troglodytes' name for themselves).

Mazra wrote:

It is more than a little silly to expect any adventurer to not have a little grime on them.

Sir, allow me to introduce you to a little spell called prestidigitation. My fastidious elf wizard never leaves home without it :-)

I see. It just wouldn't do to have dirty Paladin. I have been playing fantasy RPGs a long time, and the need to use Prestidigitation to keep the Paladin squeaky clean has not come up. But it is funny.

"Demons Revisited" is a game book with the OGL printed in it. Game books are covered under the OGL.

The rules are much less clear for products like miniatures (or the novels, or the adventure card game). Paizo has been extremely conscientious about avoiding any OGL grey areas. If they were to put out an "official translation list", it would also dip their toes into that grey area.

EDIT: At the very least, they would probably have to put the OGL on any such list.... but that may imply they would have to put them on the boxes for the minis. Better to avoid all of that.

Far better that you just ask on the boards, and somebody can give you alternate names. Also, most of the names on the minis are either proper names of creatures in the set's AP, or alternate names used in Paizo products (ex Xulgath is the Troglodytes' name for themselves).

I didn't ask for it to be put on a box or in the box. All I am asking for is a simple faq. I am not a legal expert but I would think that if they could do the same thing in Demon's Revisited, they could possibly do it in a faq. The OGL can be put in that faq if necessary.

Thanks for mentioning Xulgath, I thought that was a named Troglodyte, I didn't think it was under the OGL because I have seen it in multiple things that did not reference D&D anywhere that came out well before the OGL existed. I had no idea that was what Paizo was calling them when they were being careful of the OGL. Which only emphasizes my point of the need for a faq of "alternate names for these creatures". The faq doesn't even have to mention the miniatures, like what Demon's Revisited did.

This was just a request to make it easier to use their miniatures with their own bestiaries.

Scribbling Rambler wrote:

"Demons Revisited" is a game book with the OGL printed in it. Game books are covered under the OGL.

The rules are much less clear for products like miniatures (or the novels, or the adventure card game). Paizo has been extremely conscientious about avoiding any OGL grey areas. If they were to put out an "official translation list", it would also dip their toes into that grey area.

EDIT: At the very least, they would probably have to put the OGL on any such list.... but that may imply they would have to put them on the boxes for the minis. Better to avoid all of that.

Far better that you just ask on the boards, and somebody can give you alternate names. Also, most of the names on the minis are either proper names of creatures in the set's AP, or alternate names used in Paizo products (ex Xulgath is the Troglodytes' name for themselves).

I didn't ask for it to be put on a box or in the box. All I am asking for is a simple faq. I am not a legal expert but I would think that if they could do the same thing in Demon's Revisited, they could possibly do it in a faq. The OGL can be put in that faq if necessary.

Thanks for mentioning Xulgath, I thought that was a named Troglodyte, I didn't think it was under the OGL because I have seen it in multiple things that did not reference D&D anywhere that came out well before the OGL existed. I had no idea that was what Paizo was calling them when they were being careful of the OGL. Which only emphasizes my point of the need for a faq of "alternate names for these creatures". The faq doesn't even have to mention the miniatures, like what Demon's Revisited.

This was just a request to make it easier to use their miniatures with their own bestiaries.

Although Troglodyte is an old enough word that you need the OGL to use without it, Troglodyte as a smelly lizard person is a d&d thing, so needs the OGL

If nothing else, a fan or fans could easily make such a list up also.

Kingdom of Drakkar (Originally called Realms), came out in 1984 had troglodytes. Which were lizard people in the game. Yes I know D&D came out before that. However it was owned by TSR which were incredibly sue happy from what I've heard.

Any fan who tried to have a fan page about D&D were given a cease and desist letter. The friendlier Wizards of the Coast didn't purchase TSR until 1997. Wizards of the Coast came out with D&D 3.0 and the OGL a few years later.

That being said, the fact that TSR didn't sue anyone doesn't prove that Hasbro might not. However if you do get sued, if you can prove that they have not been protecting their intellectual property then you have a case. Still it is better to not get sued and shovel a lot of money the lawyer's way to defend yourself. So staying away from gray areas is a wise decision, let others shovel money to lawyers to defend themselves.

Now back to the real topic at hand. Rathendar, a compiled list is a great idea. The only problem with putting it on the forums is it will keep getting buried, where could it be put so it is easily accessible for all who want to use it?

Nice! These look far better than 99% of the LoG minis. However, I'm probably still going to wait for the first reviews, but at least I'm a bit more hopeful and excited after seeing these images.

One request though. Some of the miniatures have a name different from the bestiary when they aren't named creatures. For instance "Fire Demon" is a Balor. "Toad Demon" is a Hezroe. "Death Demon" is a Nabasu. Unless it is a named creature, could we possibly get a FAQ or download somewhere to list the conversion to the bestiary name?

Such a cipher would be really helpful, the necessity to rename everything becomes more of a pain as the number of figures grows.

Hopefully a fan with encyclopaedic knowledge and some spare time will be able to oblige.

If paizo were interested in providing such a key, perhaps it could be along the lines of a broader list: "what races call themselves in Golarion" (and not reference the miniatures line at all).

I'm glad to hear that the set was pushed back.

I have yet to receive my subscription for the current set, but I'm concerned about the quality of the paint.

Has Paizo had any discussion with Wizkids on what happened with LoG and how they will make sure this next set doesn't suffer the same fate?

I certainly have pointed them toward reviews and let them know of some customers' negative experiences with the set.

Erik, do you still want specific photos of the more obvious problems? Things like large areas unpainted for example? Or the Orc Archer's assembly issues?

No, I think we've got it covered. They're very much aware of the Orc Archer issue, per an email I just read. :)

No, I think we've got it covered. They're very much aware of the Orc Archer issue, per an email I just read. :)

Cool, I didn't want to "SPAM" the inbox if they were not needed. :-)

Thanks

It would also be nice if you could give them a nudge on getting their replacement system moving again. Last I checked (a couple days ago), they still aren't geared up to accept replacement requests for Skull and Shackles, let alone Legends of Golarion. I've got a broken Daughter of Imerta I'd *really* like to trade in o.O

And never mind: I just went back and checked, and it looks like replacements for Skull and Shackles are now possible! Happy day! Hopefully LoG will follow soon, though I had fewer issues on that one.

Erik, do you still want specific photos of the more obvious problems? Things like large areas unpainted for example? Or the Orc Archer's assembly issues?

I'm curious. What's the issue with the orc archer?

danielc wrote:

Erik, do you still want specific photos of the more obvious problems? Things like large areas unpainted for example? Or the Orc Archer's assembly issues?

I'm curious. What's the issue with the orc archer?

For all of mine the bow was bent funny. I don't know if any one else had the same problem but every one in my case did.

I will admit I was hoping to see the iconic ninja and samurai before Alain, just to have all the PFS ready iconics in mini form.

I have yet to play in a group where not at least one character is able to use "Prestidigitation" either as spell or spell like ability at the end of the adventuring day.

When you don't have the luxury of having a prestidigitation mage at your beck and call, you're going to get grimey. Player character parties do not represent the norm for NPC's.

danielc wrote:

Erik, do you still want specific photos of the more obvious problems? Things like large areas unpainted for example? Or the Orc Archer's assembly issues?

I'm curious. What's the issue with the orc archer?

The bow string:

Orc Archers

Left is the Proof done for Paizo. Right is the actual mini.

Yup, pointed in out in the spoiler a few weeks back, the bow has been attached on the wrong side of the left arm. Now that I have the mini I can say it's a pretty easy cut and glue fix; and once done looks pretty good. The fact that it consistently happens prob means a genuine factory misunderstanding of the mini. Still you'd think it would've been seen before it hit shelves.

Love the minotaur!

As somebody who has been buying heaps of PPM since Harbinger, I've often expressed my wish that the Pathfinder Battles focus on figures not produced before, or those which have a unique Golarion spin.

That said, the mini I am most excited about in this preview is the chimera. It appears miles better than any chimera produced in the past.

This AP is not on the radar for me, so the fiendish minis (while great looking) are unlikely to be useful. I can always use characters (especially iconics), and these show some under-represented types, but I tend to get less excited about them in previews.

But I gotta get me one of them new chimeras.

Terek wrote:

One request though. Some of the miniatures have a name different from the bestiary when they aren't named creatures. For instance "Fire Demon" is a Balor. "Toad Demon" is a Hezroe. "Death Demon" is a Nabasu. Unless it is a named creature, could we possibly get a FAQ or download somewhere to list the conversion to the bestiary name?

Such a cipher would be really helpful, the necessity to rename everything becomes more of a pain as the number of figures grows.

Hopefully a fan with encyclopaedic knowledge and some spare time will be able to oblige.

If paizo were interested in providing such a key, perhaps it could be along the lines of a broader list: "what races call themselves in Golarion" (and not reference the miniatures line at all).

I just noticed Kor has started doing this on the pathfinderminis site, so thanks for making that even more useful, Kor. :)

As somebody who has been buying heaps of PPM since Harbinger, I've often expressed my wish that the Pathfinder Battles focus on figures not produced before, or those which have a unique Golarion spin.

Umm... I don't want to come off sounding adversarial... but this really wouldn't leave a lot of figures. The DDM's pretty much covered off all the typical and uncommon monsters you would find in the Bestiary. Then there are quite a few figure that Paizo couldn't make because they are protected by Wizard's licence.

The greatest uncharted territory that Paizo has, is their own campaign setting.

By taking away the focus from either of these, plus the limitations of the OGL, I'm not sure what else they could make... other than some obscure monsters that the majority probably are not too concerned about.

Now, as someone who has also been collecting plastic-crack since Harbinger, I must say I am very happy with Paizo's take on the monsters. Their orcs are about 5000% better. (Heck, just painting them green instead of purple is responsible for at least 2500%).

We had a wyvern encounter recently on my table, and the players laughed at the DDM wyverns... they thought they looked more like chickens. They all loved the PB Wyvern though. (Of course I'm scared as hell as to what might happen to it if I drop it on my basement concrete floor.)

And don't even get me started on the goblins... so much better!

Not all gamers are old dinosaurs like me and were able to shell out lots of money on minis when the DDM's were around, so PB's provide a good opportunity for the new players to acquire some pre-painted minis.

On a side note: I am still disappointed there are no crab minis. Maybe my players play at the beaches too much, but Giant Crab minis would be useful. Once again last night we could have used them for an encounter from a recent Adventure Path .

Kor, personally I use http://www.miniaturemarket.com/mpnow-09.html

He's prepainted (well, too) and it was very easy to hobby knife him off the base and super glue him to a medium sized base. Looks like he was made for it!

No idea what to do for a large, but medium for a crab is pretty big! :)

Thanks, that looks pretty decent. Sadly they are sold out, and it does not seem to exist on eBay -- and I thought eBay had everything :) I'll keep an eye open for them.

The only thing I have found so far that is somewhat okay, is a crab from a Safari Toob. Sadly, the claws which should be the most prominent feature are folded into the body and are really not that pronounced.

Brocimus wrote:

danielc wrote:

Erik, do you still want specific photos of the more obvious problems? Things like large areas unpainted for example? Or the Orc Archer's assembly issues?

I'm curious. What's the issue with the orc archer?

The bow string:

Orc Archers

Left is the Proof done for Paizo. Right is the actual mini.

Looks like that orc has also lost his head.

Thanks, that looks pretty decent. Sadly they are sold out, and it does not seem to exist on eBay -- and I thought eBay had everything :) I'll keep an eye open for them.

The only thing I have found so far that is somewhat okay, is a crab from a Safari Toob. Sadly, the claws which should be the most prominent feature are folded into the body and are really not that pronounced.

Glad to help out. I tried to find it on a few other sites too with no luck for you. It's come in and out of stock though, so maybe they'll get more :)