What will you be most glad not to see in core games?

A lot of things I hated seeing at the table as a GM or a player no longer become problems at a core table. By far, my number one thing is slumber hexes. No witches = no slumber hexes = no adventures ruined by an unlimited use save or suck.

What things will you be glad to not see at the table while playing core?

Gunslingers.

Eidolons. I like to play martials. I don't like a disposable pet (even more disposable than an animal companion) invalidating what I bring.

Call me a killer GM if you must, but when GMing, I'll be glad to see native outsider PCs and Ioun stone resonant powers gone. Dominate Person in a enemy's tactics is now a threat and not a waste of an action.

Wands of CLW

Wands of CLW

Those will still exist, but they will be more valued now as the arcane casters can't bring out a wand of infernal healing anymore

I'd second a lot of these. Happy exclusions include

Gunslingers (booyah!)
Summoners
Tieflings and Aasimars
Hellknights
Slumber Hexes
Infernal Healing
Spring-Loaded Wrist Sheaths
Pageant of the Peacock
Any mention of Ragathiel

...and all the new ACG classes I haven't had time to look at yet.

Pageant has been banned for quite a while.

Surprised this hasn't been said...

SNOWBALL!

Happy exclusions include.......

Spring-Loaded Wrist Sheaths

But now my Wizard can't pull his Ninja act by swift actioning out a wand of Vanish, activating it, grabbing his robe hem and sprinting away. :(

On a sadder note, now a Rogue can't do the same Ninja impersonation above (using UMD), followed by moving safely into flank for next round or poised to sneak attack the enemy spellcaster when he starts to incant...

Oooh, and all the Create Pit stuff is out, too. Excellent.

Surprised this hasn't been said...

SNOWBALL!

Now, you're just being mean!

Table violence. Smoking. Unhappy people.

You know, pretty much the same things I'm glad to not see in Classic games. The source material doesn't change that.

Removed a post. Don't be a troll.

I know I'm being silly, but Chakrams.

A silly goofy weapon that is just.... to overpowered to not use. From the start of a Martial PCs life. First level, first game, ... with a whetstone.

(eye roll) yeah. silly of me. but they do bother me.

As an aspiring PFS DM? Not much, really.

Gunslingers are swingy until 5+ but raw damage numbers excite me more than scare me. Infernal Healing doesn't worry me because it's prqctically a faux pas to come to a PFS game past level 1 without a CLW wand and most parties full heal between fights either way. Most of all I'll miss Summoners; Eidolons are given more description and interesting flavor than the majority of full PCs at the tables I attend.

My only eyeroll-worthy moment as a DM was against a Kensai Magus with stupidly high AC. And the Full Plate Heavy Shield Paladin was just as hard to hit.

Looking forward to GMing a table and not having players show up with highly powerful stuff that I've never even heard of....

(There will still be highly powerful stuff, but at least I'll have heard of it.)

For some reason Im looking forward to running a certain Locked in the Opera scenario from yore for a Core Table.

Pageant has been banned for quite a while.

Sure, but not enough. It needs to be brought back and then re-banned... perhaps several times. With a little ceremony where it's burned and its ashes scattered on barren ground. While a young priest and an old priest recite "Begone ye unclean thing...."

Summoners.
Ragathiel.
Teleportation Wizards.
Kitsune Fey Enchanters.
Summoners.
Kitsunes in general.
Zen Archers.
Skalds.
Pouncing Barbarians.
Superstitious Barbarians.
Summoners.
Other random bullcrap Empyreal Lords that people pick for its favored weapon, with no understanding of the actual philosophy/flavor of the religion.
Evangelist.
Vicious Stomp.
Burst of Radiance
Summoners.
Rulership Variant Channel.
Spirit's Gift.

And most importantly.

No more Emergency Force Sphere. Rot in pit you unnecessary piece of rules bloat. You are the worst designed spell in all of PF, and that's an accomplishment. Arcane casters DO NOT need a get out of jail free as an immediate action.

Clustered Shot.

I don't want to bash on various rules elements out there, my philosophy is that certain players will behave a certain way, regardless of what you give them access to.

I look forward to just not having to look things up at the table (or at least, not having to look it up outside the core rulebook).

Additional resources becomes irrelevant. I don't have to worry if someone chose a banned rules element- because it's all banned!

Core mode makes half the job easier: whatever the players are doing they should be able to easily look up.

(the other half is the scenario, I can't remove a Magus villain in core mode, but I can at least choose not to run certain scenarios).

I'm really just looking forward to some simplification. I was hoping for some ways to make prepping a game easier (season 7 statblocks?), but at least CORE mode makes running it easier.

emergency force sphere
life bubble

So many combats and traps invalidated by these two spells.

(the other half is the scenario, I can't remove a Magus villain in core mode, but I can at least choose not to run certain scenarios).

I am by no means a killer or ever terribly adversarial GM, but I have to admit to looking forward to some payback after 100+ scenarios of players roflstomping my 2nd level warriors with magi, gunslingers, pouncing barbarians, and summoners.

Much like one of my favorite scenarios

The Advanced Class Guide.

I'm looking forward to not seeing the huge bag of books that I bring to classic PFS games.

I don't play PFS. But I think I am going to use this Core Campaign idea to roll back my game to a simpler place.

Then, going forward, I'm going to require that players essentially ask permission for all non-core elements they want to introduce, from spells to classes to feats.

Keeps the idea of lots of options being available, but on a more "this is a special thing to add in" basis, rather than an "everything goes" basis.

We'll see how it goes...

Marsh

grandpoobah wrote:

(the other half is the scenario, I can't remove a Magus villain in core mode, but I can at least choose not to run certain scenarios).

I am by no means a killer or ever terribly adversarial GM, but I have to admit to looking forward to some payback after 100+ scenarios of players roflstomping my 2nd level warriors with magi, gunslingers, pouncing barbarians, and summoners.

Much like one of my favorite scenarios ** spoiler omitted **

You think those level 2 warriors will have a chance against even Core only characters? Two handed weapon users will still one shot them, colour spray, grease and giltterdust will still neuter them and animal companions will still eat them for breakfast.

No more Emergency Force Sphere. Rot in pit you unnecessary piece of rules bloat. You are the worst designed spell in all of PF, and that's an accomplishment. Arcane casters DO NOT need a get out of jail free as an immediate action.

*Thousands of men rise to their feet in applause. The sound is deafening.*

Mike Seales wrote:

grandpoobah wrote:

(the other half is the scenario, I can't remove a Magus villain in core mode, but I can at least choose not to run certain scenarios).

I am by no means a killer or ever terribly adversarial GM, but I have to admit to looking forward to some payback after 100+ scenarios of players roflstomping my 2nd level warriors with magi, gunslingers, pouncing barbarians, and summoners.

Much like one of my favorite scenarios ** spoiler omitted **

You think those level 2 warriors will have a chance against even Core only characters? Two handed weapon users will still one shot them, colour spray, grease and giltterdust will still neuter them and animal companions will still eat them for breakfast.

I am curious as to whether or not those kind of builds will self-select out of Core mode. Do the kinds of players (or the kinds of builds) that ROLF stomp normal PFS plan on actually playing in CORE mode (or building similar types of characters)? Or will most players choose to opt for something less obvious (or non optimal):

e.g. will most barbarians be two weapon wielding? Will wizards focus on general spells (instead of high damage evokers and high DC enchanter/conjurors).

It will be interesting to see the types of builds that show up in core mode, and how that affects the play environment.

I am mostly just looking forward to not having to worry about so many resource books to consult. The different classes and options never bothered me on principle. I don't mind gunslingers and summoners in the fantasy setting. I guess my Warcraft play has desensitized me to them.

I will not miss Gloves of Reconnaissance, as these have trivialized a couple of scenarios I have been in.

I understand being upset about rollplayers picking deities and not even investigating the tenets of that religion, but what exactly is stopping anyone from playing a paladin of Ragathiel in Core?

I understand being upset about rollplayers picking deities and not even investigating the tenets of that religion, but what exactly is stopping anyone from playing a paladin of Ragathiel in Core?

Paladins in PFS require a legal deity within one step of LG.

Only the core 20 deities are legal in core, as the rest come from other sources.

Mackenzie Kavanaugh wrote:

I understand being upset about rollplayers picking deities and not even investigating the tenets of that religion, but what exactly is stopping anyone from playing a paladin of Ragathiel in Core?

Paladins in PFS require a legal deity within one step of LG.

Only the core 20 deities are legal in core, as the rest come from other sources.

That's a rather extremist interpretation, especially since deity has absolutely no mechanical effect for paladins and claiming that background-only choices can only be made based on the Core book and PFS Guide would mean that the only nations a person could come from are Absalom, Andoran, Cheliax, Osirion, Qadira, Taldor, and Thuvia. Even Numeria is never referenced as an actual nation, and I can't find a single mention of Varisia anywhere in the book. But hey, sure, why not throw out all the lore as well as the mechanics, and people are no longer allowed to name the city they're from unless it's Absalom or Oppara.

Kelly Youngblood wrote:

Mackenzie Kavanaugh wrote:

I understand being upset about rollplayers picking deities and not even investigating the tenets of that religion, but what exactly is stopping anyone from playing a paladin of Ragathiel in Core?

Paladins in PFS require a legal deity within one step of LG.

Only the core 20 deities are legal in core, as the rest come from other sources.

That's a rather extremist interpretation, especially since deity has absolutely no mechanical effect for paladins

This has already been clarified by Mike Brock as only allowing the 20 core deities for clerics and paladins

and claiming that background-only choices can only be made based on the Core book and PFS Guide would mean that the only nations a person could come from are Absalom, Andoran, Cheliax, Osirion, Qadira, Taldor, and Thuvia. Even Numeria is never referenced as an actual nation, and I can't find a single mention of Varisia anywhere in the book. But hey, sure, why not throw out all the lore as well as the mechanics, and people are no longer allowed to name the city they're from unless it's Absalom or Oppara.

This has already been clarified by Mike Brock's post on background as allowed as long as no mechanical benefit

Oh boy. It's a big list for me.

In no specific order:

Magus
Gunslingers
Summoners
Beast Totem pounce
Swashbuckler
Anything related to Swashbuckler
Oath of Vengeance
Zen Archers
Clustered Shots
Snap Shot
Witches
Snowball
Pit spells
Warpriest
Invulnerable Rager
Bloodrager
Agile weapon enchantment

I'm looking forward to the prospect of not needing to stack initiative just so I can get a round of combat in before the *stuff from this list* ends the encounter.

andreww wrote:

Mike Seales wrote:

grandpoobah wrote:

(the other half is the scenario, I can't remove a Magus villain in core mode, but I can at least choose not to run certain scenarios).

I am by no means a killer or ever terribly adversarial GM, but I have to admit to looking forward to some payback after 100+ scenarios of players roflstomping my 2nd level warriors with magi, gunslingers, pouncing barbarians, and summoners.

Much like one of my favorite scenarios ** spoiler omitted **

You think those level 2 warriors will have a chance against even Core only characters? Two handed weapon users will still one shot them, colour spray, grease and giltterdust will still neuter them and animal companions will still eat them for breakfast.

I am curious as to whether or not those kind of builds will self-select out of Core mode. Do the kinds of players (or the kinds of builds) that ROLF stomp normal PFS plan on actually playing in CORE mode (or building similar types of characters)? Or will most players choose to opt for something less obvious (or non optimal):

e.g. will most barbarians be two weapon wielding? Will wizards focus on general spells (instead of high damage evokers and high DC enchanter/conjurors).

It will be interesting to see the types of builds that show up in core mode, and how that affects the play environment.

Going through a mental checklist of local regulars who typically build powerful characters, everyone I'm thinking of is just looking for a good time playing Pathfinder, and so will see Core as just "Hey cool, more chances to play!" and will bring the same "Let's have some fun" attitude (and their strong characters) to their Core tables as they have to regular tables.

Feral wrote:

I'm looking forward to the prospect of not needing to stack initiative just so I can get a round of combat in before the *stuff from this list* ends the encounter.

Huh. Blatant public announcement of cheating from a 4-star GM. That's interesting.

How is this cheating? I took this as feral saying as a player he doesn't need to stack initiative to get a chance to have an effect on combat.

Feral wrote:

I'm looking forward to the prospect of not needing to stack initiative just so I can get a round of combat in before the *stuff from this list* ends the encounter.

Huh. Blatant public announcement of cheating from a 4-star GM. That's interesting.

I believe he was talking about as a player, and by "stack initiative" he meant do things like take the Improved Initiative feat.

Perhaps I misinterpreted that statement. Post deleted.

You wound me sir.

I thought by "stack initiative" he means running multiple baddies at one time, such as "all three rogues with identical statblocks go on the same initiative" or even "your animal companion goes on your initiative". I can't think of hardly any GM's who don't stack initiatives even though it's RAW to have individual.

By stacked initiative I mean Reactionary, Improved Init, and Cracked Dusty Rose Ioun stone.

I recall during one special half the party got one-shot by the monster's opening move (not me) and I still didn't get to act before the monsters were all dead. Viva la Core!

Spirit's Gift.

Already banned for quite some time IIRC.

By stacked initiative I mean Reactionary, Improved Init, and Cracked Dusty Rose Ioun stone.

I recall during one special half the party got one-shot by the monster's opening move (not me) and I still didn't get to act before the monsters were all dead. Viva la Core!

It all makes sense now!

Summoners.

Ragathiel.
Teleportation Wizards.
Kitsune Fey Enchanters.
Summoners.
Kitsunes in general.
Zen Archers.
Skalds.
Pouncing Barbarians.
Superstitious Barbarians.
Summoners.
Other random bullcrap Empyreal Lords that people pick for its favored weapon, with no understanding of the actual philosophy/flavor of the religion.
Evangelist.
Vicious Stomp.
Burst of Radiance
Summoners.
Rulership Variant Channel.
Spirit's Gift.

Had problems with Summoners?

Disk Elemental wrote:

No more Emergency Force Sphere. Rot in pit you unnecessary piece of rules bloat. You are the worst designed spell in all of PF, and that's an accomplishment. Arcane casters DO NOT need a get out of jail free as an immediate action.

*Thousands of men rise to their feet in applause. The sound is deafening.*

Not just men.

I won't miss Emergency Force Sphere either, though a simple errata would fix it. Duration: Concentration.