WotW: A Knot of Thorns The First Parchment (Inactive)

Game Master Xzaral

A group of villains escape Branderscar prison to take revenge upon Talingarde.

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Google Doc Map Link (Currently not in use)


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King of Talingarde

The inability to see the map is definitely a concern for me. I know I get a similar issue when I'm at work, which uses an out of date version of Internet Explorer. Not sure if this may be the same issue. Does anyone else have trouble seeing the map? And if so, mind sharing what browser you use? See if we can't resolve it.


Not in use

For me I can 'see' it usually; just not 'update' it - but only at work.

It's just fine for me at home as I've got chrome running.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

I'll try to use chrome from now on.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

I can see it just fine. All I use is Internet Explorer.


King of Talingarde

I use Internet explorer both at work and home. Work's is out of date, and all I get there is usually either a flat image of a small section, or something incredibly scrunched up to be unreadable. At home, with an updated version, it works as normal. Now I'm not as savvy as I wish I was when it comes to software and whatnot, but if we can find someway you can see the maps, all the better.


Not in use

Some would already be aware, but my wife gave birth yesterday to our new baby boy.

Wife and Bub continue to do well and all things considered should hopefully be back in our own home as of tomorrow. Will see how the home-life settles out before committing to a specific time for wading back online so if DM-botting can occur for anything critical that would be grand. Bostarg would likely hide out of the line of sight for the most part ;)


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Congrats, Sweetman! Good to hear they both are doing well. :)

Liberty's Edge

Congratulations! What an exciting time. Good luck getting sleep, and enjoy the new bundle of joy!


King of Talingarde

Congratz! I'll do what I can for you in game. Just let us know when you can be back.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Congratulations, friend!


Not in use

Wife and baby boy now safely back at home so I'm comfortable in getting revved back into gear for this again :)

Might still be a bit spotty for a while, but confident I won't hold anyone up.


King of Talingarde

Just an FYI for everyone, I PMed Haruk and Beatrix to remind them it's their turns.


HP 45/45, AC- 18, Touch- 14, Flat- 14, CMD- 21, Fort- +6, Ref- +9, Will- +2, Percep- +7, Init- +4

You may want to instigate a policy to deal with slow posters in combat. Out of combat its rarely an issue but in combat, momentum really falls apart if you end up waiting for individuals for a day or more.

A lot of the PbP's i'm involved in have a declared policy on this, for example that a character will have its action taken for him/her if more than 24 hours pass since his or her initiative came up. I'd personally be fine with that one or any other really.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

I still cannot post reliably from my computer or see the whole map. Trying to work this out.

Sovereign Court

Which browser and which version?

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

I have IE 8 with Xp.


King of Talingarde

Just an FYI that tomorrow morning I'm having my wisdom teeth removed. Not sure how this'll impact my posting (I'm hearing lot's of doom and gloom about it), but in case for some reason I don't post for a few days, that's why.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Best wishes for you, bro!


Male Weremonkey Rogue/Ranger/Trickster

Today, Thursday the 3rd, I will be attending the Mighty Marvel Marathon, watching Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man II, Thor, Captain America and The Avengers. I will therefore most likely have spotty attendance in my games, though I will try to post when possible.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Wisdom teeth pulling sucks. It'll beat you down for about a day. After that it's better. It's just the first 24 hours that are the worst.


King of Talingarde

Yea, it sucks. I really don't want to do much of anything. So far I've found the old Transformers cartoons are the most relxaing thing at present.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Man I love those old cartoons. Transformers back in the 80's was greatness! :)


HP 45/45, AC- 18, Touch- 14, Flat- 14, CMD- 21, Fort- +6, Ref- +9, Will- +2, Percep- +7, Init- +4

I'd like to think items aren't just being placed because Haruk wills it ;).

If they are, let me find two spring loaded wrist sheaths in the next room please.


King of Talingarde

As a DM, it's my responsibility to ensure that items are available that are useable by the group, without simply handing them over their heart's desire. This includes either treasure looted being available, or available for purchase. If you had simply left without looking in room 12, you would have indeed missed an entire armory full of equipment.

What is NOT my responsibility is informing the group how to use said items. If a fighter wants to use a metamagic rod as a club while a wizard brandishes a greatsword without proficiency, that's up to the group to decide, not myself. As a group (or 6 individuals, I suppose) you should decide how to most effectively use the resources that have been provided.

This being said, remember you can attempt to bargain (appeal, discuss, etc), in character, with other players. RP-wise, you are a bunch of criminals in a prison with nothing connecting you to each other.

And finally, if you ask for spring loaded wrist sheaths, that isn't Haruk willing it, is it :P(insert evil laugh here).


HP 45/45, AC- 18, Touch- 14, Flat- 14, CMD- 21, Fort- +6, Ref- +9, Will- +2, Percep- +7, Init- +4

I was beseeching the mighty Haruk to beg the GM (or Asmodeus) for the items, you see. I'd totally hand over the crossbow in that instance ;).


Male Human Sorcerer(Infneral) 5/Infernal Disciple 3

OH mighty GM(Asmodeus) please let this humble servant find a pair of spring loaded wrist sheathes in the next room for my companion Alazandaru.

If you grant me this blessing, he will sign his soul over to you


HP 45/45, AC- 18, Touch- 14, Flat- 14, CMD- 21, Fort- +6, Ref- +9, Will- +2, Percep- +7, Init- +4

"Should have read the small print"... Alazandaru's smart enough to find a loophole in an infernal contract. Hes just not wise enough to think to check...


King of Talingarde

Contract devil appears. Let's see what we can do for you. Hmm, Viorec, Viorec, looks like we already have that one. Sorry, can't help you there. Unless you're interested in an upgrade package? You promise us your first born, we give you a deal that totally doesn't work in your favor? Sound good?


HP 45/45, AC- 18, Touch- 14, Flat- 14, CMD- 21, Fort- +6, Ref- +9, Will- +2, Percep- +7, Init- +4

I'm in, contract devil. There best be gold plated wrist sheaths with my name on it and a curse on anyone else who touches them though ;).

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Heya, gang. I've decided to drop out of this game. I appreciate the invitation, and I think it'd develop into a great time. But I continue to have problems with eaten posts and time to give the game its due. Good luck and have fun storming the castle.

Sovereign Court

All the best Steven. I'll continue to watch you playing Nikolai with interest in DM Barcas' game :)


King of Talingarde

Sorry to see you go Steven. I wish you well in all that you do.

With that, it drops the group down to 5. I'll leave it up to the five of you if you wish for me to recruit a replacement or not. I'm open to either.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

I'm good with 5. But if the majority prefer a 6th, then that's cool with me too.


Not in use

No problems Steven - happy gaming in the future.

I'm fine with 5 as well.


Male Weremonkey Rogue/Ranger/Trickster

As am I.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Alright, I've got listed under Morthos's profile the items AK mentioned. If there is anything else anyone thinks we should also take(and that doesn't dance on the side of ridiculousness as per encumbrance) let me know.

Out of these items, I'll need to know who's taken what. I know I took one of the longbow's. Not sure if anyone else did though. Can't remember if anyone took a chain shirt either. Let me know.


HP 45/45, AC- 18, Touch- 14, Flat- 14, CMD- 21, Fort- +6, Ref- +9, Will- +2, Percep- +7, Init- +4

Took a chain shirt before the storeroom from another guard. In the storeroom itself, took a Heavy Mace and the Light Crossbow.

Liberty's Edge

(oops, meant to post this yesterday and never hit submit) Well, that was half of our healing ability (still have our bard). Might not be a bad idea to look for a divine spellcaster to replace him.


HP 45/45, AC- 18, Touch- 14, Flat- 14, CMD- 21, Fort- +6, Ref- +9, Will- +2, Percep- +7, Init- +4

A wand of CLW is all the healing i'm really after. Happy with 5 or 6.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Obviously channeling is out of the question, so, I think if we can manage a wand as AK said, we'll be fine in that regard.


Male Human Sorcerer(Infneral) 5/Infernal Disciple 3

Guys, what in the Nine Hells?! Quit acting like heroic PCs. We're evil, vile people, who have commited a crime so horrid that we were deemed no longer fit to live(or live among normal citizens)

No fires, no hostages, no killing people who've surrendered. Haruk is a scion of Hell, I am going to be doin awful, bad things if I get my way. I really hope you all aren't going to continue to prevent me from playing my character.


HP 45/45, AC- 18, Touch- 14, Flat- 14, CMD- 21, Fort- +6, Ref- +9, Will- +2, Percep- +7, Init- +4

Evil doesn't mean Chaotic- the alignment system is done on two scales, after all.

Alazandaru has a twisted sense of honour and truthfully, hasn't really finished falling from grace yet.

But even if I was role-playing him as completely and utterly consumed by evil, he would see using hostages against what few guards are left as a sign of weakness. He has long term plans. These plans do not begin well from a reputation of slivering out of the prison using hostages.


Not in use

Haruk - evil has many flavors and I would posit that the rest of us are playing more along the lines of Lawful Evil, where as Haruk seems to be much more Chaotic Evil.

I don't want to play Way of the Wicked just so I can run around being a psychopatic sadistic murderer. And he will have IC issues with Haruk if that is really all you want out of this game. Bostarg has no compunctions with doing actions that are considered reprehensible - but they are done with a purpose not on a whim.

On the issue of the fire:
Setting a fire at the time it was suggested was a bad idea. That is why Bostarg spoke against it. There would have been a real chance that we could have been caught in the fire given the circumstances that you proposed setting it.

If the group still wants to set fire to the place after we are sure we can get away from it then Bostarg would have less resistance.

On the issue of hostages:
The concept of taking hostages doesn't make sense to Bostarg - plus we know that these particular guards aren't exactly virtuous. Hostages make it less easy for us to move around freely, and remove any stealth from the equation.

On the issue of casually slaughtering those that surrender:
Bostarg would have serious issues with this. He is lawful to a fault and follows a god that is the father of all infernal contracts. You got the guard to back down on an implicit promise that he wouldn't be harmed if he laid down weapons. Bostarg took that as a compact and acted accordingly (as in by locking him away where he cannot harm us nor are we directly responsible for his death).


HP 45/45, AC- 18, Touch- 14, Flat- 14, CMD- 21, Fort- +6, Ref- +9, Will- +2, Percep- +7, Init- +4

Bostarg, you put it all excellently. I've actually felt that honestly, Haruk is being RP'ed as Chaotic Evil rather than Lawful Evil, but I was loathe to make this an Alignment (TM) Thread.

Essentially making a deal to ensure someone's safety only to then suggest burning him alive inside is not, to my eyes, a lawful trait. Both IC and OOC, I was very surprised by this. Asmodeus is Lawful Evil- yes he's a tyrant, yes he wants dominion over the world- but he's insidious, cunning and yet can be trusted to honour his words and oath. The very epitome of a bargain with the devil is in itself one of the most potent symbols of Law- a contract, with extremely rigid and inflexible terms that both sides are expected to honour.

I'm in full agreement with Bostarg about the surrenders. While Alazandaru would honestly prefer to remove the risk and slay any who are still fighting, when Haruk or someone else has forced a surrender, he will honour that surrender accordingly; even if he doesn't agree with it in the first place.

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Truthfully, Way of the Wicked strongly emphasises Lawful Evil- this is because its hard to form party cohesion without the Lawful element. Thus far, Haruk seems to have been played as Chaotic Evil, which is downright strange as he claims Asmodeus is his patron.

I'm not fond of too much inter-group conflict, so I apologise if this post offends. Do note that I was essentially dealing with the above issues in-character and not wanting to make a fuss OOC- but as the discussion has now started, I am going to make my opinion clear as well.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Morthos deems it no challenge to kill someone unarmed. Especially some nobody, redshirt guard. He's just not worth it. Unless he wants to battle. He's more on the challenge of the fight than just killing someone to be killing. Dueling was his other crime(s).

But that's just Morthos's style.

Edit: Bostarg posted as I was writing this. As per the hostages, I agree with that. I actually put that in Morthos post as well. That they would only slow us down and get in our way.

Morthos also lives by the creed of allowing someone to live if you've given your word to them.

This is how I would deem Lawful. I feel Haruk is more along the lines of Chaotic. Chaotic to me is telling them we'd let them live if they dropped their weapons and surrender and then killed them. At least it feels like it to me.

But that's just not Morthos. I've never played an evil pc, so, I'm trying to play a Lawful bad guy as best I can. I think of "Chopper" and go opposite, yet, still evil.

Any one of you want to correct me on my opinion on chaotic and lawful, please do. It's easier to do with good characters than it is evil ones.


Not in use

An excerpt from Faiths of Corruption - Taboos:
If you are a true worshiper of Asmodeus, your word is your bond, and while you pride yourself on your ability to make clever deals and leave yourself escape clauses, breaking a contract is a sin of the highest order.


King of Talingarde

(un)Holy Alignments, Batman! We've got a discussion here!

To be quite honest, Haruk, I was going to be PMing you to discuss some of the same issues that have been brought up here. Please understand that I'm simply looking at the overall enjoyment of the campaign.

The others have pretty much laid out the issues as they stand, I don't feel I can contribute more than what has already been said on that. From the backstory you had provided I did have a good feel about the type of evil you were wanting to portray up until the end, as I had asked you about it. My certainty has slightly dropped now.

I would ask that you take a look through Faiths of Corruption as one tool. Take a look at Asmodeus's doctrine. Lawful Evil is not easy to play, just like Lawful Good in many ways. Worship of Asmodeus on top of it is even harder. You have to deal with many of the same issues just with a different perspective on them.

If you have any questions, please ask. The most important thing is that everyone enjoys the game.


Male Weremonkey Rogue/Ranger/Trickster

See, I'm playing Haruk as inherently better than pretty much everybody not LE, moreso if they worship somebody other than Asmodeus. Thus, he does not feel he owes it to them to follow through on any deals made because they are made with people beneath him. He's a supremacist, do you really think an old school member of the KKK or Hilter's Nazi party would care if they made a deal with a black person or Jew and then turned right around and did the opposite??

When he makes a deal or pact with somebody he considers worthy, he will honor it. But until then, he says what he thinks others wants to hear, but does not care if he needs to break the agreement, if breaking it gets him further than keeping it.


Not in use

That may sit well in your mind for Haruk - but it does not tally up with the actual approach and lore of Asmodeus in the Golarion setting. Contracts are immutable and once agreed must be followed - regardless of who they are struck with. Similarly followers of Asmodean doctrine are reliable to a fault after they have given their word.

And it is most definitely not Lawful (TM).


Not in use

Or to say it a different way - if you think everyone who is not an Asmodean worshipper is beneath you, then you simply wouldn't bother making an agreement with them or bargaining anything out of them.

But twice now when presented with a lone opponent, Haruk has been the one that has stepped forward and gotten them to surrender under promise of amnesty.

Statement 1: Lay down your weapons and I promise no further harm will come to you.

Statement 2: Just let us pass and no harm will come to you, promise.

Statement 3: Your sergeant has fled, your allies cut down. We have not a scratch on us, and you stand in our way. Will you die like the rest, or lay down your weapon and cease to impede our departure??

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