Hmm. Not sure how practical the wagon is when half the party will be able to Plane Shift, Teleport, and fully heal in a few rounds. But I guess it is a nice big bag of holding to put stuff in.
* * *
Can a Crystal and Shadow Dragon even *have* babies together?
Well, not all of us CAN do that.
And besides, we still need a safe place to sleep.
well, that's an aspect we haven't discussed yet.
Is it possible?
Oh, Sashin prefers the politically correct term Umbral Dragon.
It's more intimidating.
By the power vested in me by Her Brightness, Sarenrae,
I pronounce you dragon and other dragon.
This was certainly unexpected...
Hmm. Not sure how practical the wagon is when half the party will be able to Plane Shift, Teleport, and fully heal in a few rounds. But I guess it is a nice big bag of holding to put stuff in.
Yeah, while not the most practical, I tried to go for a cool concept, not to mention it is orders of magnitude better than the best bag of holding or portable hole.
I figured a magical merchant who also adventures would need to carry more stuff than normal, so I got a wagon.
I figured a wagon wasnt enough, and was dismayed at how much a portable hole could hold, and I couldnt find anything like the old Trunk of Storage.
So I started looking at Demiplane stuff, seemed just what I needed to get that "bigger on the inside" feel for the wagon. The special forms of travel were just there for ease of use and to make sense, as he didn't always have his own way of travel, and the portals linked to his home plane werent always the safest.
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I like the concept of moseying through the "inbetween" in a cosy, rusty looking wagon right out of an old kids movie. Makes me feel like we're...more legitimate? It gives an object on which to center ourselves rather than just being homeless murderers.
This was certainly unexpected...
Love at 1st bite
Runs away fast
OK! Crunch, Fluff, and Application Questions are all done for Oneidros! All info is in my profile. Comments, ideas, and corrections welcome.
As far as my own history, I've played two PbP campaigns to completion ("Fires over Blackcrag" and "And Madness Followed"). My longest running right now is a Rise of the Runelords game that started in Jan 2014. I enjoy both the roleplaying and the tactical elements, and am usually one of the more active posters in the campaigns I've been a part of.
There's going to be a ton of great competition for this one. Whether or not I get in, I've enjoyed the creative challenge the recruitment has offered.
Good luck to all!
I think what will be one of the greatest challenges for GM is to pick a party of similar power level.
Just from browsing a bit, those vary wildly. Some people were more restrained with optimization, others went to the town and set it on fire, there.
But I think for the game to work, all those picked need to be around the same level of awesome. Will be very interesting.
Also, congrats, Sashin. Can I be the bridesmaidflowergirl? You two are so majestic together. Your eggs will be lovely.
Don't worry about that too much, Yin. This is a gestalt game, which means that everyone should be able to pull multiple roles—and one of those roles might likely involve buffing allies, crafting items, or generally disabling enemies while your teammates sweep up.
I built scholar almost entirely for control and punishment rather than damage. I figure that's going to come down like rain in this kind of game so I went another route. Quite fitting with his cool and observant personality.
A ludicrous initiative score helps make that work.
Though the high post rate in the discussion is rather intimidating. I'm glad I didn't make him too talky.
Don't worry about that too much, Yin. This is a gestalt game, which means that everyone should be able to pull multiple roles—and one of those roles might likely involve buffing allies, crafting items, or generally disabling enemies while your teammates sweep up.
Aye, I'm not so much worried about the ROLES themselves. more about the amount of optimization.
There's some almost-humans in there that would need to roll a 20 to save against spells I cast.And others that have at least one save category in which only a 1 would fail them.
There's people with 40+ on a attribut score, others who's highest is around 20.
Some with skills around 25, others with skills of 50+
It's simply so wildly spread that I feel even remotely balancing against our bunch of gossamer lords and ladies would be hell unless those picked are somewhat similar in "relative power level".
Pretty much what Yin said. It's accurate from my point of view. I did my best to optimize within reason. Others... seem to have broken the ruleset over their knee.
I'm fine with being with people stronger than me. It, ironically, fits the character. I'm not fine with saving throws (being my really good thing!) being trumped by... the entire party. You know? Because while my concept is about someone who makes things, we run into the problem of 'anything that can hurt them will kill me. What am I doing here?'
And... honestly, it doesn't fit the character to go out with people on god-tier levels of power and then just die. Even with my ability to self-stabilize against a kill once a day.
(The fact we have PCs that need only 'not botch' or take 'always a chance' or the like to just drop my character in one round, with nothing I can do... really reinforces that I'm out of my league. I think there are 1-2 submissions I feel are at or below my power level, just glancing. My own fault, really, as I was the one who played up a noncombat concept.)
And in the end, the line is basically 'those who used templates' and 'those who did not' as the spot that shows the wild curve. Just as a basic idea: If I made my familiar advanced, he'd be better at int than me... with my +4 int headband.
And in the end, the line is basically 'those who used templates' and 'those who did not' as the spot that shows the wild curve. Just as a basic idea: If I made my familiar advanced, he'd be better at int than me... with my +4 int headband.
utterly true. Some people went more crazy than others.
I could be Class level 10/10 and have added a modified alicritous and suzerain creature.
then throw out 8 spells in 3 rounds, while permanently granting any allies within 60 feet a +23 morale bonus on attacks, damage, skills and saves.
Powerful? Sure. Fun? No. Pushing the limits is only good until you reach a certain point.
I made Yin pretty...survivable, but as a payoff she has almost no offensive potential herself. She won't rip anybody up, but she'll do fine as healer/controller/buffer/debuffer...across several power levels of entries here.
But the wild fluctuation of those power levels really is remarkable, and I can see how other roles are heavily affected by it.
Just as an example of character concepts that would be amazing to play alongside... but the crunch completely prevents them from coexisting, I'll go with Oneidros.
If we were to fight: If he fleet charges me, I have a 1/8000 shot of not being on the ground unconscious, and a 1/400 shot that he won't kill me while I'm on the ground. I have a 1/400 shot each time I attack him of hitting him, unless I spend a swift action to study. Then I bounce up to a 1/5 shot. If he uses none of his abilities. Meanwhile, on the spellcasting side: He has a 15% chance to fail a saving throw against me. Unless he pops one of his other abilities, in which case, I still do nothing, and he can just send it back at me. Luckily, I probably won't fail against his thiefed version, but I'll actually get hit by it. Then we move on and go to 'we're not fighting.' He does literally everything I do better than me, skillwise.
So, if we're in a group together... I'm my mastery. And a character. A very dead one, should we even attempt to challenge his. That's the -really- intimidating part of picking for this.
Doh, just finished Maerar's background and then pressed cancel instead of save. I'm an idiot.
Just as an example of character concepts that would be amazing to play alongside... but the crunch completely prevents them from coexisting, I'll go with Oneidros.
...
So, if we're in a group together... I'm my mastery. And a character. A very dead one, should we even attempt to challenge his. That's the -really- intimidating part of picking for this.
Yeah, thats the scary part. How utterly one-sided things get. If he hits me, I'm dead. Good thing he will never find me.
Heck, I can't even read through all those things I never heard about with shattered mirrors and broken blades.
I'd probably just try and pepper him with shadow graping umbral acid arrows, rays of exhaustion and the odd phantasmal killer on the off chance he fails 2 50% chances on the saves, using stealth and silent spell to stay off his radar.
Probably I'd just run and get someone else to bully him for me, though, while I support.
Or i could sneak up, open with a surprise round and try to plane shift him to a strongly aligned energy plane. If he makes the save, I probably have a problem though. Things get crazy...best wait until I have Contingency, that makes it a lot more workable :)
Doh, just finished Maerar's background and then pressed cancel instead of save. I'm an idiot.
I know that feeling...sorry to hear it.
Doh, just finished Maerar's background and then pressed cancel instead of save. I'm an idiot.I know that feeling...sorry to hear it.
It sucks, but it's fixed now.
All that remains for me is the daunting task of fixing my gear. Well that and my familiar.
As for Oneidros, I just want to hit his Touch AC while invisible and send him running for the hills.
Doh, just finished Maerar's background and then pressed cancel instead of save. I'm an idiot.
ouch! sorry to hear that
I went with the core idea then built a PC around that.
A futuristic Mind Hacker from a high tech world, that was my core idea.
Just as an example of character concepts that would be amazing to play alongside... but the crunch completely prevents them from coexisting, I'll go with Oneidros.
If we were to fight: If he fleet charges me, I have a 1/8000 shot of not being on the ground unconscious, and a 1/400 shot that he won't kill me while I'm on the ground. I have a 1/400 shot each time I attack him of hitting him, unless I spend a swift action to study. Then I bounce up to a 1/5 shot. If he uses none of his abilities. Meanwhile, on the spellcasting side: He has a 15% chance to fail a saving throw against me. Unless he pops one of his other abilities, in which case, I still do nothing, and he can just send it back at me. Luckily, I probably won't fail against his thiefed version, but I'll actually get hit by it. Then we move on and go to 'we're not fighting.' He does literally everything I do better than me, skillwise.
So, if we're in a group together... I'm my mastery. And a character. A very dead one, should we even attempt to challenge his. That's the -really- intimidating part of picking for this.
But... do you see his CMD?
|
Just had a look, sorry but it was the subject,
I think hes a reused Epic PC that may still need some stuff
down graded to the game PC level. I say this because under
Spell-Like Abilities
. . Constant—fly, telekinesis
. . At will—call lightning, summon swarm, tree shape
. . 3/day—elemental body II, spike stones, wall of thorns
Don't think you can have a CL 18 for a CL13 PC,
Also skills
Knowledge (local) +39 (, 3 class, 16 int)
Max is 13, so I think there is still epic stuff there.
So it may still be a work in progress.
Nope. All of that is from his race. And I didn't see his CMD. Is it because it's crazy high or crazy low? I can't really tell. And it wasn't really the point to call scrutiny to one of many apps :p
My point was that my character is very much an outlier in the group's power options. No one did anything wrong. It's just that my character really can't hang with the big dogs. :p. So... it's going to be hard to pick her. :(
Can a Crystal and Shadow Dragon even *have* babies together?
The way I have it written, in the traditional plumbing system as it is now, no. As for the source material, it does not say. I made it where dragons souls seeking redemption, since Crystal Dragons are chaotic good, are drawn into a single crystal. And fueled by the arcane spark of the dragon soul, the crystal forms into a dragon. All of the dragon weapons are supposed to be razor sharp so I think plumbing would be a little painful for fleshy dragons and the way crystals work physically and metaphysically I did not see them breeding in the normal sense. Since crystals have been focused on spiritually, this is how I based Crystal Dragons came to be. While male and female souls make up the Crystal Dragon population, they all do not have plumbing without a magical wish or some other forms of intervention.
And this is why I haven't been a fan of templates for a while (or monster HD in excess of class levels).
But there are usually equalizing effects that hit, one way or another, once the party is formed.
Regardless of power levels this wait is killing me.
One more thing about monster HD and attributes: If you made a monstrous PC don't forget that their level up stat points are already accounted for in their highest stat (probably).
Also, don't forget that the max base stat before racials and such is eighteen. I see a few people that missed one or both of these. :)
I specifically shot Suchak to be slightly above benchmarks for level 13.
IME nothing scares a GM of this sort of game away faster than actually attempting to min-max a Gestalt character, even without Mythic or templates or whatever.
Actually trying to fully optimize Gestalt (especially with Templates, most of which have been insanely under valued here) kind of misses the point of it. The challenge of a game like this is making a character who can still function within the CR system.
Some of these PCs are excellent thought experiments, but challenging them would be next to impossible. It's fun to make ultra high powered concepts (I made a Gestalt Alchemist/Wizard once who was immune to just about everything in the book. Just flat out immune, no save needed. And that was just passive effects) but a little restraint goes a long way.
YMMV but I see these sorts of charop requirements as a way to make interesting or bad crunch viable, even excel, rather than beefing up what is already overwhelming.
Maerar is finally done in full.
His familiar is still a work on progress. I actually have a problem with the free templates there as I'm going for an Ioun Wyrd, which is a construct. basically that means I can make it Advanced and that's about it since I don't want it to become bigger. I guess I could infuse it with some element, I'll have to check.
Power-level wise I rely on my ability to hit off touch AC and mess with action economy. Beyond that, I've got a ton of weaknesses.
Really though, I kind of just don't care to check specifics of two characters in a duel. After I finished my major revamp I stopped looking over the details of other applicants so that I would stay satisfied with my current build. So my advice is to do the same; don't think about it.
I doubt characters will be chosen on the sole merit of how high their numbers are. We're gestalt; everyone has high numbers.
Regardless deadline is coming up soon; looking forward to it either way.
I believe you misunderstand. I'm looking at the idea that people are playing, and then comparing it their crunch to see how well they applied intent to character. One of the things I always try to do is ensure that a character is a product of their abilities and vice versa.
In so doing, I discovered that I'm -really bad- at making a strong character at higher levels. Like, even worse than I thought when my very first post explained that I was going to do terrible on the crunch side of things.
And short of significant things that we don't yet know, I can't really, in good conscience, recommend taking my character (as much as I love her) over other people. Because she will be a detriment to any party of individuals that are actually going to be challenged. She's just that much below the curve. I'm not particularly worried about how strong others are: they're running their own race. I'm more concerned that using a 150 cc bike in an Indy car race will just wind up ruining the whole thing. :p
Aye. I totally understand. Also, weaknesses define character, imho.
Yin, for example, has a total Perception value of 2. She's not very attentive and easily distracted. Her own ability to hide is awesome but she probably couldn't find Garron hiding behind a Barn.
She can bluff very well too. Because she beliefs what she says, no matter if it's technically true. But her Sense Motive? Equal to the Perception.
She just takes everything at face value, or not, quite randomly.
Also, I saw some people with monster races that took up one side of the gestalt? I was not aware their racial HD stacked? I thought they would also be looked on at a level-by-level basis between the other side of the gestalt and the monster race side? *shrug* no matter.
Anyway Barrett, it's not so much about worrying about other applicants, or numbers. I'm definitely not. I had so much fun creating Yin that i'm already content no matter if she gets picked or not.
It was merely an observation on the different extremes provided here, and how difficult it must be to pick out a coherent group from whats offered. Because as Hotaru mentioned earlier...it could be the group comes up against an enemy.
Enemy casts an area-effect-save-or-die spell. Half of the party needs to roll a 20 to survive, other half needs to roll anything but a 1. Does not compute.
Thats why I was surprised to see such wide variation on some quick glances, because I expect that all the "extremes" will be sorted out during the selection process.
Also, thanks for offering to help me make Mora a bit stronger, Barrett. :) That was very kind of you. I just don't feel I can make up the difference without sacrificing who she is. Like, at all. But again, thank you for the offer. At worst I got to flesh out a small part of my world's history a little better. :)
I tried to keep Wodin to a rather standard gestalt power level (Metaforge and Vitalist aren't very synergistic at all; Metaforge enjoys the added versatility of being a manifester, Vitalist enjoys having free armor, weapons, and flight) and the template is more for flavor than actually boosting his stats. Pretty much, the end goal was "can fly, can fight, can heal" and while he's probably not the most effective frontliner (but still damn good), he's no slouch for a character that is designed to be a group healer.
I have noticed the spread between individual characters is huuuuuuuge in some cases. I don't think comparing how you'd do against them in a 1v1 fight is terribly indicative of anything, though. We're going to ostensibly be on the same side, afaik.
While Garron isn't super optimized, I think he sits somewhere in the middle of the power level scale, mostly due to high strength and hurling people into the sun (unless there's errata).
Also does anyone have a suggestion for another trait he could take? I want to take the overprotective drawback but don't have anymore traits I want.
@Wodin: Maybe 'in a fight' was the wrong way to go about it. How about: If the enemy has a 25% chance of hitting them, they have a 5% chance of missing me. If I can hit a target, they cannot miss. Stuff like that. 1v1 was unintentionally adversarial. But 'If I can succeed, they cannot fail' is a recurring theme on my character... in relation to the things (I thought) she is good at. Does that make better sense?
But with so many options available to us during character creation it's kind of counter-productive to expect a universal power level from all applicants, isn't it?
That's not to say that there aren't people who are really powerful and people who are not. I just think that makes for a better party. As thunderbeard has already pointed out, our roles in this game can exceed the typical party make up. Strength no longer defines a character, nor does weakness. Instead a player can focus on making the character themselves attractive without needing to worry about mechanics so much.
So you can't hurl people into orbit? So you don't have a billion attacks, or skill points, or whatever? Who cares? Yin has good enough saves that save-or-die isn't a problem for her and with Regeneration she doesn't realistically have to be worried about being killed via HP damage.
I'm sure I can rattle off as many positives about your characters as you can negatives! Focus on the positives!
While Garron isn't super optimized, I think he sits somewhere in the middle of the power level scale, mostly due to high strength and hurling people into the sun (unless there's errata).
Also does anyone have a suggestion for another trait he could take? I want to take the overprotective drawback but don't have anymore traits I want.
how about just picking anything that fits the character?
I only picked traits and drawbacks based on Yins personality and history.
Lucid Dreamer, Planar Savant, Broken Mind, and Umbral Unmasking
Surely a search by keywords on the SRD would also turn up some traits fitting for you?
@barrett
As said, thats all true. The only observation was that this spread was too far to be practical for GM purposes.
For all matters and intents, between people that stacked on templates, monstrous races and class synergy, and others that did not, it would be the same thing as running a campaign for a Characters at Level 3, 7, 11, 15 and 19, in the same group.
Sure you can do it, but the balancing is a hell of a lot easier if everybody picked falls into the same general RANGE of power. Thats all I was saying.
While Garron isn't super optimized, I think he sits somewhere in the middle of the power level scale, mostly due to high strength and hurling people into the sun (unless there's errata).
Also does anyone have a suggestion for another trait he could take? I want to take the overprotective drawback but don't have anymore traits I want.
@Wodin: Maybe 'in a fight' was the wrong way to go about it. How about: If the enemy has a 25% chance of hitting them, they have a 5% chance of missing me. If I can hit a target, they cannot miss. Stuff like that. 1v1 was unintentionally adversarial. But 'If I can succeed, they cannot fail' is a recurring theme on my character... in relation to the things (I thought) she is good at. Does that make better sense?
Okay, I see what you're saying.
To point, however, Yin looks at her character and feels like she's useless. I look at Yin's character and feel like she stomps all over me in quite a few important fields. Does this mean that either of our characters won't be able to contribue? I'm actually not so sure.
A quick glance at your sheet had me curious, because your ability scores seem ridiculously low, even considering headbands and stuff. Did you use normal point buy or the 1:1 increase method? With ability score modifiers from your race that add up to +10, I honestly have no clue how your scores are so low. Especially since you got another +3 from leveling up and then a +4 to your primary stats from the belt/headband.
I left the headbands and belt and hat of size all in the temporary section. The numbers are definitely all there. A actually, auditing it... I seem to have magicked up two points from somewhere. So definitely not low, no. Dropping charisma to twelve :p
Truthfully, it doesn't really matter how we built or why we built our characters the way that they are. The final decision will be made by SultanOfAwesome. I believe he stated many times over that he primarily is focused on fluff not so much crunch.
I tried to optimize my PC as he fully believes in knowledge and preparation can solve problems. Omniscience is omnipotence. Although, I did forget to stress that he is a pacifist of sorts and rarely will resort to violence unless the situation lends itself to that cause of action.
I again thoroughly enjoyed many of your builds. Some are iffy and didn't have really make any sense than trying to make an optimize build. If I don't make it this time, at least I'll have him ready for the next adventure opportunity that comes once in a blue moon.
Good luck!
While Garron isn't super optimized, I think he sits somewhere in the middle of the power level scale, mostly due to high strength and hurling people into the sun (unless there's errata).
Also does anyone have a suggestion for another trait he could take? I want to take the overprotective drawback but don't have anymore traits I want.
how about just picking anything that fits the character?
I only picked traits and drawbacks based on Yins personality and history.
Lucid Dreamer, Planar Savant, Broken Mind, and Umbral UnmaskingSurely a search by keywords on the SRD would also turn up some traits fitting for you?
I didn't try searching for keywords. The main reason it was hard to find a good trait isn't because there aren't good ones its because I wanted one that fits his personality. I decided to go with grim optimism.
Ah, I read that wrong. I am not a fan of Mythweaver's new sheets, so I kind of zone out when reading them. >_<
Cuàn, ouch, losing a background like that is painful.
Re balance, I'm very curious too. While I was starting on Oneidros' crunch I realized that his his stats would be pretty crazy based on the monster PC rules and PM'd the GM to ask about (a) if I was doing it right and (b) if he wanted to come up with a way to lower his stats (e.g. lower point buy or reducing the template). His opinion at the time was that it wasn't a concern...but really what I'm looking for is to play an interesting character in a game that's fun for all. I have many years of experience playing at low and mid levels but much less sense at this level. I hope that if there are balance issues in the party that detract from fun that we can adjust for them.
My offer to GM Merchant Zoruugasz is of course still open: If it makes the game better to tweak Oneidros some I'd happily do it (and expect we could do it pretty straightforwardly by reducing his ability scores or reducing his racial HD or both). I hope that that's true in general--that folks are OK with tweaking some characters up and/or down if we collectively realize it makes for a more interesting game.
Looking forward to the selections!
Okay, I see what you're saying.To point, however, Yin looks at her character and feels like she's useless. I look at Yin's character and feel like she stomps all over me in quite a few important fields.
Ah, nonono, you got that wrong. I don't feel I'm useless by far. I just brought up that I specifically made sure I am not optimized ACROSS the board.
That I have weaknesses, some by design(such as perception), others by class choice(such as only wielding magic, no weaponry...).I am VERY happy with how Yin turned out, and I feel that across quite a range of contributions she is a valid support.
Because she's mainly a buffer/debuffer/controller/healer, she just amplifies the power of whoever she is with. No matter if upper or lower end of the scale.
I just looked at others and found some people seemed to optimize very heavily, some very little. That was not meant judgemental towards either side, sorry if it came across that way.
I can assure you, I don't feel useless and I am not useless ^_^
I just have weaknesses, by design, to counteract the strong points(like saves, regeneration, stealth).
When I made the examples of Perception and Sense Motive I just tried to explain that for her as character, it totally makes SENSE to have super-low scores in those. I had skill points left which I spent on Perform(Dance) because she likes doing that. Rather than try and get perception up.
Man, I need to stop replying to threads right after waking up.
The point is mostly that I think it'll work out in the end. The GM has his work cut out for him, but he knew that when he decided to make a game involving level 13 mythic gestalt characters. ;)
Yeah. I slipped away from 'worry about the fluff more' just now. I really do worry about basically the same thing as Yin, though. It's not at all that others are stronger... it's that I don't want for him to have to balance with a 3, 5, 7, 9, 11... etc.
Yeah. I slipped away from 'worry about the fluff more' just now. I really do worry about basically the same thing as Yin, though. It's not at all that others are stronger... it's that I don't want for him to have to balance with a 3, 5, 7, 9, 11... etc.
I don't think it's really that much of a balance issue if you think about DC Comic's Justice League. You have Superman and Batman then the rest. If you consider any balance issue in the same manner, then a DM could offer a similar storyline with minor tweaking.
Also, thanks for offering to help me make Mora a bit stronger, Barrett. :) That was very kind of you. I just don't feel I can make up the difference without sacrificing who she is. Like, at all. But again, thank you for the offer. At worst I got to flesh out a small part of my world's history a little better. :)
I agree with this, I had the same comments about maxing my PC v PM from another player, who did not submit a PC funnily.
Kind of, "you know if you could did this and get, ",
Ok using Godling to slap Int bonus on all saves would have powerful but would have meant a whole new back story, that just was not hers. She is who she is and I hope I get picked so I can show who she is as a person not a "wait to see what I can do" thing.
It's just not my way of playing.