King's Patron - Emermark management and discussion

Game Master Mardavig

OOC Emermark discussion

Thank you GM Mardavig!

If you need a more rules updated, but complex, kingdom's sheet I can provide you what I'm currently using for the others 2 campaigns. It includes the Heir and Consort positions too.

Emermark

"Ruler" of Emermark: Matsu Myuki +4 econ
Consort/heir: Marlani Orlovski/Valkus Lebeda +3 loy
Councilor: White Eagle +3 loy
General Etienne de Guerlin +4 stab
Grand Diplomat: Kyras LeBlanc +4 stab
High Priest: Anton Medvyed +4 stab
Magister: Carter Ma'Anubis +4 econ
Marshall: Lorald Orlovski +4 econ
Spymaster: Zartana Orlovski +4 stab
Royal Helper: Jenya +4 loy
Treasurer: Sebastian Callen +3 econ
Warden: Agrona Rivertusk +4 loy

Neutral Good: +2 stab
+2 loy

Edicts:
1 holiday +1 loy
+1 consump
Token promotions +1 stab
+1 consump
Light taxes +1 econ
-1 loy

50 build points

-1 bp claim hex

-2 bp prepare hill hex

-27 bp castle +2 econ
+2 loy
+2 stab
-4 unrest
+1 fame
+8 defense

-3 bp house -1 unrest

-4 bp hill farm -1 consump

-6 bp hill road (river)

50bp-43bp=7bp remaining (prior to tax phase)

Your total fame is 2 and your population is technically 1500. Building a castle abstractly adds 1000 to your population immediately. In fact it takes a little while for this many people to filter in. "Hey did you hear someone built a castle?""Let's pack up and get over there!"

If you want we can use the optional forms of government feature. You guys would technically be an Oligarchy, but you could also open the door to republicanism. It's your call.

If we were to be using the settlement size rules, up to you, Stag Fort would be small town, with Corruption -2, Crime -2, Law -2, Lore -2, Productivity -2 and Society -2. A danger rating of -5.

These are all the modifiers I can find at the moment that would apply to you.

Hey everyone.

We still need to decide capital city name. I like Freewater.

For the final kingdom stats I think we need to know what Miyuki and Zartana will decide to put their bonuses towards.

For the initial edicts I think either we go with

Holiday 1 (Founding or Harvest)
Promotion Token
Taxation Light

or

Holiday 1 (Founding or Harvest)
Promotion None
Taxation Light

I think our Stability is healthy enough without the Promtion and it brings our Consumption down by 1 for the first phase anyway.

Gah! I'm away on vacation and got elected Treasurer! (Hunts for abacus).... 15 plus 7, carry the 2....

dot

Aswering Zartana.
As I wrote before, I think it's better if the fixed Miyuki's bonus and the variable Zartana's goes to Economy. It's better to have a strong economy, to earn more possible BP.

I agree. The better our economy the more money we have to build other things. I would like to build a road as soon as possible to olegs outpost, surrounded by farms.

I agree.

Enjoying the occasional rts,
making money makes for more efficient and rapid building options.

So if I'm reading this correctly you guys want a strong economy. So the spymaster will add her efforts to the the ecomony and you'll go with 0 promotions for now, in order to reduce consumption.

This would also be the phase where if the council wanted to issue any 'edicts', in an RP sense, you would do so.

Moving on to the next phase.

Income Phase
Step 1-Make withdrawals form the treasury. This is a bad idea in general, but may be necessary on occasion. In any case, there's no need to do so now.
Step 2-Make deposits to the treasury. If anyone has 4000 gp or more they'd like to donate to the treasury this is when they'd do it.
Step 3-Sell expensive items for BP. exactly like it says.
Step 4-Collect taxes. This is the important part. Ordinarily we might call on Sebastian to do this, but since he's on vacation I'll handle it. I roll an 11, which is average, I add Emermark's economy score, which as I make it is a 22, subtract your unrest (0) for a total of 33, divide by 3. which means you guys collected 11bp in taxes.

As an aside, this has an approximate value of 44000gp, but bp are not strictly cash, they also equal labour (human capital), materials and other less tangible resources.

So after the first month of construction you guys pass the hat around, Sebastian does some sums and you now have 18bp in the treasury. If anyone feels I've erred please let me know.

That bring us to the Event phase, which is a lot of fun. There is a 25% chance that some event will occur. I rolled a 48 on the event phase, which means no event this month. But on the kingdom turn following a turn with no event has a 75% chance of getting an even, so there's a strong chance next month some kind of even will occur.

This completes your first month of kingdom building. During that month you guys all put in at least 7 days of "leadership activities" these need not necessarily have been continuous. So if any of you wanted to spend some time adventuring during the month of Erastus you would be within your rights.

We can also skip that, assuming you spent the first month working hard side-by-side with the good people to build your castle, houses, farm and roads. Then we could proceed directly to month 2 of kingdom building.

As Arodus rolls around the Iomedeans throw up their hats for their little Day of the Inheritor's Ascendancy.

Unless something specifically comes up regarding her church, Raven spends the entire time at home among the people, spreading her faith, helping everyone with births and funerals, as well as collecting support for the building of her temple.

I'm good with everybody spending the first month working to set up the capital. Which I think is Freewater?

By virtue of no one objecting, people start to call it Freewater.

Which reminds me. When it comes time to make the city map there has never been an explicit statement of how close the fort was to the water. The lake is to the south and may or may not border the southern edge of your town. Similarly the river may or may not be to the east. How close or far these features are is really your decision.

It seems to me it would be good to border both so the city district extends from the Hill Castle South East to end at two waterfronts? You get Hill and River and Lake all as defensive structures and there's a bunch of buildings that can only be built on water. I think it's up to the person who is making the city map :)

Being close to the water is for sure intelligent. As for the next month I think we should expand north build a farm and a road and for our city a craftsman wood to help with the buildings. Stone, food for the next months.

The hex to the northwest is a hills hex that contain the bladeberry thicket. There are no rivers or any other factors that would effect construction in this area.

The hex to the northeast is a hill hex that features a ford where the Shrike and the Thorn river meet. This ford acts as a bridge and negates the extra cost of building roads in hex with rivers. Aside from that no other factors affect construction in this area.

Ok now something of a clarification.
Is the bladeberry thicket a special resource?
If so do we need a farm, or a mine or anything like that to get some more benefits.
Resource: A Resource is a ready supply of some kind of valuable commodity that offers a great economic boon to your kingdom, such as exotic lumber, precious metal, gems, rare herbs, incense, silk, ivory, furs, salt, dyes, and the like. If you claim a hex with a Resource, Economy increases by 1. If you construct a Mine, Quarry, or Sawmill in a hex with a Resource, all of its benefits increase by 1. If you construct a Farm or Fishery in a hex with a Resource, those improvements decrease Consumption by an additional 1 BP.
Now it seems to me logically we should build a farm and we gain another 1 point of consumption decrease? For a total of 1 economy 3 consumption decrease. Correct? This would mean we can support easely a 1point consumption like token promotion?

The bladeberry thicket is a plant hex, which does not apply any bonuses or effects to kingdom management.

Since both hexes are hills and the one northeast has the special feature of a ford I think we should expand in that direction next turn and build a farm and a road. This place gives us a crossing to expand east easily if we decide to.

That would cost us

1 BP claim
4 BP Farm
3 BP Road

For 8 BP. Leaving 10 BP.

Enough for an mill, tannery or shop.

Shop needs to be next to a new house that needs to also be built for 3 BP so I think that's out.

Mill vs Tannery

mill economy +1, stab +1
prod +1
must be on water district

tannery economy +1, stab +1
society -1
discounted by stockyard

Mill has better bonuses and not discounted by anything. So I would go for that. We could built a house with the remaining 4 BP or hold on to it.

Didn´t we build a house already?

About Hex claiming:
Claiming River's Hexes has the disadvantage of doubling the Cost for roads, but it's also a long time investment 'cause river hexes has the benefit:

River: A River allows water travel through your kingdom, facilitating trade and allowing irrigation. Economy increases by 1 for every 4 River hexes claimed, and Stability increases by 1 for every 8 such hexes claimed.

Practically when you got 4 river hexes is as if you are having 2 roads in each hexes, when you got 8 river hexes is as if you are having 8 roads.

Anton's long term propose is, after doing this connection with Oleg, going to claim the hexes towards the Lost Temple, to rebuild the ancient temple of Erastil and a small village around it.

About City District(s):
1) Something important to remember about buildings:
- Having 1 castle gives us a discount (50%) on the first Noble Villa or Town Hall we will build in the same city.
This means: A town hall (costing only 11 BP instead of 22) giving as bonus Economy +1, Loyalty +1, Stability +1 and a discount (on the next first Barracks, Cistern, Dump, Jail or Watchtower),
or a Noble Villa (costing only 12 BP instead of 24) giving as bonus Economy +1, Loyalty +1, Stability +1; Fame +1 and a discount (on the next first Exotic Artisan, Luxury Store or Mansion)
- Unless we have unrest > 0, I'll avoid building other houses (3 BP) in a turn. House should be built only when we need one as Limit (ie. a Shop must be adjacent to 1 House or Mansion)

2) Mine personal contribute:
In this first months/turns our priority should be to have a Consumption of 0, and an Economy as high as possible.
For this reason I'll suggest to build some of the building with a limited cost, but with a bonus to Economy such as:
- A shop (8 BP), +1 Eco, Value +500 gp, could be updated in future to a Market or to a Luxury Store. We already have an House for the Limit
- A Smithy (6 BP). +1 Eco, +1 Sta
an so on.

3) Since nobody made a map of Freewater, here is mine propose for the current map:
Freewater 1st Month
And I'm for building a Shop in the Lot north to the House Lot (in this way, with a 2nd House in the West of the current House, we should in future upgrade the shop in a Market)

@Miyuki, you're right I overlooked the first house we built.

@Anton, Mardavig said the North East hex is a special hex with a ford so for that one at least road costs won't be doubled.

If I understand right, are you saying it would be better to build Freewater up rather than expand? I like the idea.

@ Jenya: Thanks, I missed that the ford negates the double cost for the roads. That's good reason for claiming this hex instead of the bladeberry's one, while still expanding the kingdom toward north.

What do you mean by "build Freewater up rather than expand?"

@ GM: I noticed the Kingdom's sheet is missing the +1 bonuses (on all 3 stats) for having a Capital in a Central/Defensible position in the Hex of the former Staglord Fort.
This means our actual stats are Size 1, DC 22, Eco +23, Loy +18, Sta +16, Unrest 0, Total Cons. 1, Treas. 18 BP.

EDIT: Technically, also the Staglord Fort hex qualifies as "Landmark", meaning +1 to Loyalty, but with the new built road it becomes a +2, bringing the total Loyalty up to +20

@ Anton Yes +1 to all three stats for picking the central hex. I also see where landmark is +1 to loyalty. I do not see where +1 loyalty becomes 2 loyalty when you add a road, but i know you'll explain it.

The reference about Landmark is hereor on page 211 of Paizo's Ultimate Campaign book.

I knew you'd help me out.

Ok, here is my take on your kingdom stats after the first turn.

Do you guys want to head out and adventure now, or start another month of kingdom building?

It's best to build the larger buildings and pull the discounts from them long term savings.

Consider creating city districts that specialize. Early now, but keep the long term in our sights.

@GM M, I did say I was going to begin exploring in 3 days, but seeing as I was elected, I will wait.

Any group can pull me in as needed. Will be back Monday.

Something for everyone: GM M. Has already made a statement along these lines, but keep this mind. We live in a feudal society. People will consider it very odd that their rulers come down and talk to them directly. And if 4 or more talk to every group that arrives, it will be strange indeed. We have govt positions to do that, or they will have people for it eventually.

I think it's fine for the initial settlement Sebastian as the kingdom really is fledgling but you're right as the kingdom grows we might want to roleplay this differently. Wardens and Marshalls and the like would of course talk directly to people all the time though.

For the Kingdom Phase I think we're settled with

Expanding North East and Building Farm and Road for 8 BP.

Can we also decide that FreeWater is bordered on the South by the lake and on the East by the River? Would be good for buildings and the name FreeWater would make much more sense too. :)

Within FreeWater we have 10 BP to spend.

We could build a Shop for 8 BP and Econ +1
or a Mill for 6 BP Econ +1 and Stab +1

I would suggest going for Mill personally as it's not discounted by a more expensive building so we're not wasting money, is cheaper, and it props up our Stability to boot which is looking a little low at the moment. Plus we can save the 4 BP for a hopefully larger building next turn.

Good point. And welcome back!

Sense Lorald leveled up his dex mod is +5 not +4 anymore so please update that for the phases. ;)

The economy of Emermark continues to gain strength.

Seems like you guys are eager to move on with more kingdom building. The book suggests a year of kingdom building before you might want to get back in the field. It's entirely up to you, of course, but if you want we can begin the upkeep phase of your second turn.

Each phase is a month right?

So 11 phases before going back into the field then. What time of year would that put us?

Back in the summer.

A year is just a guideline, there's nothing stopping you guys from adventuring again in the first month if you choose.

I'll like to have the suggested year of kingdom's turns, before going back on exploration, this should also allowed Team Orlovsky to complete their retro-active exploration so we have a definitive map of what we all explored before founding Emermark.
Anton will also like to spent this year helping the community for religious and other needs.

I'm trying to keep track of all the updated to level 4th PC sheets, because of the +1 ability bonus that could be relevant for the kingdom stats. But it's hard, because we are a lot of people, and not everybody already updated his avatar to level 4...

So, for now we have:
Anton Wis 17->18 already counted.
CWE Wis 17->18 meaning +4 Loy!
Lorad Dex 19->20 meaning +5 Eco! :)
Kyras already leveled up to 4th, but I'm not able to find where is the +1 ability bonus... in any case even bringing Cha from 18 to 19 don't impact on the kingdom sheet, for now (always +4)
Etienne Str to 19, no change for the kingdom (always +4)

Also in GM's updated sheet having Marlani & Valkus in the same slot bring a small error, because "Consort" & "Heir" bring "half" CHA to Loyalty, meaning half of 3= 1.5=(rounded down to) 1 each, for a total of 2, not 3 (Sorry guys, that's mine Lawful-Rule-Layer part)

This also bring me to another question: spending years in kingdom turns could bring some aging effects, especially for Anton and others PCs whose race have not a so long life expectancy (not everybody is like "auntie Natalya" :-D )
Anton on creation rolled a 26 years, and his "middle age" is at 30!
I've never rolled in which month and day he was born...
month: 1d12 ⇒ 11
day: 1d30 ⇒ 19
So, Anton was born on the 19 of Neth, 26 years ago, and his 27th birthday will be in the 5th kingdom turn... If you want to buy a present for your favorite Erastilian priest :)

Oh fun, my turn... Month: 1d12 ⇒ 6 Day: 1d31 ⇒ 9

9th of Sarenith, 20 years ago... Unless we count her rebirth, but I'm not sure of the date for that.. GM?

-Posted with Wayfinder

There is very little precedent for what happened to Raven. How that might affect her aging remains to be seen. If you are asking the date it would also have been in Sarenith, on the 23rd.

Since the next turn will begin with the Upkeep phase where there is nothing we can decide, only a Stability check (usually rolled by the Warden), and an eventual intervention of the Royal Enforcer. I'm for beginning it, so we can start arguing about the other turn phases too :)

Very well, upkeep phase!

Step 1- Determine Kingdom Stability. Current control DC is 21 and your stability is +16. In Agrona's absence I'll roll. 26 succeeds the check. Unrest decreases by 1, which would put you in negatives, so you gain a BP. Treasury goes form 18 to 19.

Step 2- Pay consumption. Subtract consumption from treasury. Your consumption is 0 (1 from size, 1 from your festivals edict, -2 from your farm. So your treasury is still 19.

Step 3- Fill vacant magic item slots. N/A

Step 4- Modify Unrest. Your unrest is 0 and stays that way.

Edict Phase
Step 1- Assign Leadership. I assume everyone is still happy with their roles?

Step 2- Claim hexes. The general consent seems to the be NE hex, the one with the Ford. That would be 1 BP. Treasury=18

Step 3- Abandon hexes. N/A

Step 4- Build terrain improvements. So I know you guys want to build another road, which only costs 3 bp because the ford makes the bridges free. Treasury=15

Did you also want a farm?

Herein begins the building debate for the Month of Arodus

I figure we build a farm as well in NE for 4 BP.

And in Freewater we either build a Mill on the water or a Shop North of the House in Anton's map.

My reasons for supporting a Mill over a Shop:

I would suggest going for Mill personally as it's not discounted by a more expensive building so we're not wasting money, is cheaper, and it props up our Stability to boot which is looking a little low at the moment. Plus we can save the 4 BP for a hopefully larger building next turn.

I agree on building a farm (4 BP) in the next hex.

I can also agree about Jenya propose of building a Mill, but look out that for now our city base value is still 0 gp, meaning in future we can't sell expensive items to increase BP at all (see Step 3—Sell Expensive Items for BP)
Instead developing a shop (and then upgrading it to Market) even if it costs 8 BP instead of 6 BP, and it also gives us only +1 to Economy (and not the +1 to Stability of a Mill), should let us sell items if in future we will need to fuel our kingdom economy.

I normaly would build the mill, but we do not have any harvest yet. I would vote for tavern or shop. As shop is cheaper I think it is better.

That is true... Raven is a special case...

-Posted with Wayfinder

I'm fine with shop also. Not married to the Mill. We'll build one eventually.

For sure. A mill was an important way for citys to make money. Also if we claim a farm hex next we can soon make mines.

For future reference, this is Raven's plan for her temple..

Shrine, 8 BP
Upgrade to Temple, 24 BP
Upgrade to Cathedral, 34 BP

This of course subject to future rp occurrences, but ooc, that's the plan..

-Posted with Wayfinder

(Sigh) level 4 too? I missed all the fun. Going to be busy Monday.

@ Raven: About Shrine(s) and the update to Temple(s) I (the player) and Anton (the PC) will perfectly agree.
About the Cathedral (which is limited to 1/settlement), Anton propose would be to build one big cathedral for all the Churches and Faiths of the Kingdom.
Because in his vision having Freewater (our Capital) with a big cathedral dedicated to all the gods, and a lot of temples dedicated to single gods, is better that having a cathedral dedicated to one specific god, that could cause conflicts... something like "Mine temple is bigger then yours" :)
In any case, that's probably something we are going to RP heavily, and I'll like to RP it!