OK. Hello to my initial group of four! Here's our Discussion/OOC thread, where I'll lay down the law, you'll discuss your plans for the game, and we'll all listen to each other as it suits us.
(Note: It should suit us quite often if we hope to have a good game!)
Before I get into anything meaty, I'm gonna lay down a few
GROUND RULES
1)Regarding text formatting when In-Character: Please use italics for thoughts, bold all spoken dialogue, and follow the standard conventions of English grammar as best you're able. If you're not sure how to word something so I'll understand it, ask me via PM.
1a)Quote marks: Use them for dialogue. Bold text and quote marks both.
1b)Please don't get annoyed or incensed if I say something about the way you worded something or a grammatical choice in the OOC thread. If I'm asking you about it, it means I don't understand what you're saying. If I don't understand what you're saying or meaning, I can't properly respond to you. If I can't properly respond to you, the game grinds to a halt.
2)Please make at least a marginal attempt to standardize your character sheets so I don't have to puzzle them out while dealing with all the other necessary game information. You can decide who has the best format amongst yourselves, but pick one please, and stick to it.
3)Don't let any antagonism from IC drip down into OOC. Period. Discuss feelings on game subjects liberally in OOC where necessary to prevent this, please.
4)Related to 3, make sure we all know where to draw the line on any given subject. If you're not sure "X" subject is OK to talk about, or if you think a certain character behavior might aggravate someone, ask first, either in OOC or by using OOC text in the IC thread.
Similarly, if something I do IC bothers you, tell me so I can correct it, or at the least make a compromise if it's something really important to in-game events.
Questions?
On to a few questions of my own:
A) I've been debating with myself whether to put the PCs into the "Heroic" chargen category or not. It would give you guys one better stat die, 5 more skill marks (and a higher cap on skills to start), and two more gifts. It might jive with the more lighthearted tone I'm going for, or it might make the game too easy.
A1) Are any of the other variant rules interesting? I'm not sold on most of them, but tell me if there's one you just can't live without, I'll consider its use.
B) Does counting each Adventure (essentially each minor plot arc) as a Chapter sound OK?
C) How much XP is too much to give out, and what rate is too quick for advancement? Now consider the other end of the scale.
@Quinn: I've found my PDF copy of Jadeclaw from 1st Edition. We won't be using its rules, since Jadeclaw's finally getting a 2E version, but it might prove useful for setting information.
Relatedly, we should decide what your "true" name is, because Zhongguo is this world's Asia analogue, and your current name is simply not one that would come from there. It's very much a Calabrian name.
@Rosza: Will you be statting our dear friend Guillaume, or will I? I don't mind it, since I'd be the one controlling him most of the time, but if you have a specific vision in mind, tell me.
Until I get a better idea of how to play and some rl exp I will refrain from answering A.
B sounds fine to me since that would be where chapters are in most books.
C I personally prefer faster advancement, particularly on pbp but that's up to you.
(going with Japanese for now since I know that) Real name is Kuin Hiriderin (in romanji)
Have to find my pass for dropbox, will probably get to it tomorrow. Thanks it will certainly help bg and rp.
Welcome and well met, everyone!
To answer the questions...
A) Yes, we would be more powerful, but we would also be more capable (or at least I know I would be). It is up to you.
A1) I don't know the optional rules, so I would not miss them.
B) Yes, but then isn't that what a chapter is supposed to be?
C) I think the rate of 1 exp per chapter, 1 gift per accomplished goal works just fine.
Of course, I haven't seen how it would play out in PbP, so these might be off. But, if it proves to be too slow, you could ramp the exp up a bit afterwards. Remember, its 5 Chapters to get a mark under this method, and 10 Chapters to get a gift. Our characters will not be changing that fast. (Which might feed back into point A).
4 XP to get a new mark in a skill, not 5. Just checked up on that to make sure!
After re-reading the character development chapter, it looks like I'll have to adjudicate where each Chapter is on a case-by-case basis, since they're supposed to come about every 90 minutes, averaging 3 in a lengthy play session.
I'm thinking somewhere around every 2-3 scenes is appropriate, since I tend to focus scenes around a single plot point at a time, but this may fluctuate a bit as we feel things out.
The Debriefing will also need finagling, since we don't have clearly defined play sessions in a PbP. For now I'll try to Debrief everyone when it seems appropriate, like the end of an Adventure (if it's a short one), or every 3-5 scenes in a longer Adventure. At that time anyone who thinks they've played their Motto particularly well can say so in the Discussion thread, and if we all agree then they can have their XP for that.
Does this sound good?
A) It world certainly increase character flexibility and power. As this is your first Ironclaw game you will be tuning encounters in any case. Whether you tune them atone level or another. I think the question becomes one of how people see their characters, power-wise? Not particularly interested in any of the optional rules.
B) Will likely require a bit of tweaking as players take more/less time than expected.
C) Your last set of suggestions sound good. I think I still need to fiddle with Rosza's motto a bit. I'm having a little difficulty summing her up. Her character is a little peculiar and there aren't a great many mottoes for flamboyant, manipulative anti-heroes.
Regarding Guillaume, isn't there an established, flat standard for allies and irregulars? A straight d6 in all traits, and thus in all species and career skills?
@Rosza: You are correct, Madonna. I'm assuming he's also a Dilettante? And what lineage is his Nobility?
A) I'll be straight up honest and say yes I want this. It's mostly the extra d8, though a couple gifts is very nice. It puts Ceallach where I imagined him at. I'm quite ok without any of that though, since I've never played this before anyway. Let me read the optional rules and get back to you.
B) If a minor plot arc is essentially 3-5 focused scenes, given the speed of pbp, then we hit a chapter probably about every 2 to 3 weeks. Fine with me.
C) If we start at Heroic, I would keep XP at standard levels. Conversely, if we start at normal, then I would prefer to see XP ramped up slightly, until we get to about the Heroic point. So, mostly standard advancement, possibly with a few bonuses thrown in. Instead of simply giving out a gob of extra xp, perhaps we might have to opportunity to earn a gift or skill mark through roleplaying certain encounters. The gift or skill in question would be up to you decide upon, based on how we handle things, as well as whether we've actually learned anything. It would require some tracking of our overall IC posting, but could be neat.
EDIT: Also, in case anyone cares, my name is pronounced (at least according to the website I got this from) KELL-uch Mac SHAY-uch. Means 'strong' or 'mighty, son of 'wolf'.
@Rosza: You are correct, Madonna. I'm assuming he's also a Dilettante? And what lineage is his Nobility?
I had presumed a Dilettante, yes. Hmmmmmmm. I'm not sure. There aren't a lot of different weasel bloodlines listed in the book. In fact unless I am misremembering there are only two...The other one had a more Swedish sounding name???
*Checks* Långsvansad. Polecats from the Isle of Auvrich. And they're a bunch of xenophobes, which makes that unlikely...And they are the only other weasel nobility listed besides the minor ermine house Lissemanteau.
Perhaps a significantly distant cousin (would explain their early encounter). Or, for that matter, an unlanded or simply disenfranchised noble, still bearing letters of patent and with a bloodline that is known, even if repudiated of late (whatever that might mean, given the HIGH STANDARDS apparently attributed to the Lissemanteau. >_>). Alternately, a super-minor house (perhaps a literal HOUSE, which remains the only inheritance and land of what was once a larger and notable noble family...Plenty of those in European history!) of our own creation? There have to be/have been other weasel-based noble houses at some point, even if none were ever major except in their own minds...
@Rosza: Well the book does tell us to create our own Minor Houses as we wish/need them, and there's plenty of land for them to claim, so creating our own weasel house shouldn't be a problem. Given the Lissemanteau are around the Lyore region, perhaps he's even from the Avoirdupois side? Perhaps a branch of the Lissemanteau that didn't join the Doloreaux?
On another note, how do you feel about Guillaume acquiring Improved Ally when Rosza accomplishes her Goals? That way you wouldn't have to spend valuable XP or reward Gifts on making Guillaume better, though you still could if you wanted to.
@Ceallach: Another reason Gaelic and Welsh are awesome, but super-confusing. Meaning appropriate, though it'd be either a dialect of Berla Feini or simply your father's name that gave the last part that meaning, as some digging in the corebook reveals that the Phelan call themselves "Faela," which apparently means wolves. (Cannot make accent marks in this forum?) Perhaps you've some family ties to the Bisclavret? The "mac" or "sen" naming tradition comes from the Tuatha na Bianfael, and doesn't seem to be followed much by the other Cells.
Glad to know someone here is intimately familiar with the setting. :)
I find pdfs hard to pore through for such details.
Au contraire, at least in the Phelan section, Mac is used by Phelan. However, they only use it to do lineages. Generally, they seem to be referred to by their given name only, and the parental names are used with histories, or if confusion arises. I simply listed his full name for...purposes.
I'm not so much intimately familiar with it yet as having the hardcopy right in front of me. Mostly I've only been reading Triskellian's section and the Rinaldi, since that's the immediate environs.
I imagine that if I could find some of the 1E splat-books I could have a lot more information on things at hand, or I could just make it up as we go along.
@Rosza: Well the book does tell us to create our own Minor Houses as we wish/need them, and there's plenty of land for them to claim, so creating our own weasel house shouldn't be a problem. Given the Lissemanteau are around the Lyore region, perhaps he's even from the Avoirdupois side? Perhaps a branch of the Lissemanteau that didn't join the Doloreaux?
That might very well work!
On another note, how do you feel about Guillaume acquiring Improved Ally when Rosza accomplishes her Goals? That way you wouldn't have to spend valuable XP or reward Gifts on making Guillaume better, though you still could if you wanted to.
I was thinking on that myself!
Also, re: mottos and goals.
The obvious one was staring me in the face:
"The ends justify the means." That's darned near perfect for a fallen noble getting their hands dirty.
(On the other hand, there's:
"Audentes fortuna iuvat" (Usually translated as "Fortune favors the bold." but it's literally "Fortune favors the audacious.") Which I think is a great deal more suitable for her, personality-wise...But is a little harder to justify since although she IS pretty audacious she isn't a berserker, and she's perfectly willing to talk or tease others into doing dirty work for her.)
As for her goals, her long range goal is to outlive her siblings...Not only because of the title and lands, but because they are all threats to each other (because of the title and lands)...So even if she doesn't want the family holdings, she has to become powerful enough to keep her head. And that, perhaps, makes for a good short-range goal, because starting money in Ironclaw has nothing to do with nobility or career, everyone starts pretty poor, and "Aurum Est Potestas."
(Gold is power.)
And now we just need a suitably French-ish name for them, and a bit of history.
@Motto: I rather think "Fortune favors the audacious" could work well for any kind of setting or encounter. It doesn't really matter how she gets things done so long as she gets it done in keeping with her flamboyant manner.
@Goals: Starting Goal: Acquire power in Triskellian? We could easily play that into gold thanks to the Guilds, and political connection could come from the Lissemanteau's representatives in Triskellian (every Major and Minor house keeps at least a small manor there according to teh Gazetteer. Not inclined to disagree.) Rosza is probably not the official house rep for a number of reasons.
I just uploaded my Jadeclaw 1E PDF to the Dropbox, so anyone who wants to look at it for setting information for Zhongguo should feel free to grab it.
It did bring something to my attention regarding language, though. The Zhonggese speak their own language, which I believe is Zhonggese (the book is terribly edited) as well.
This means that to be fluent in Calabrese, Quinn needs the Language: Calabrese Gift.
If you're up for it however, we can roleplay to the best of our ability your recent arrival in Calabria and play up the language barrier a bit. Maybe you only speak a smattering of important phrases? Perhaps you've been here long enough to understand a decent bit of what's said, but speaking it still gives you trouble? Lemme know how you want to play that.
And now we just need a suitably French-ish name for them, and a bit of history.
Since the weasel nobility seems to have a sort of "L" thing going, how about Laurraine (from "Lorraine")? That also breaks with Lissemanteau (ermines), since in my first mention of Guillaume he was listed as a polecat (ferret), and something of an Athos to Rosza's D'Artagnan as fictionalized by Dumas in The Three Musketeers.
@Motto: I rather think "Fortune favors the audacious" could work well for any kind of setting or encounter. It doesn't really matter how she gets things done so long as she gets it done in keeping with her flamboyant manner.
@Goals: Starting Goal: Acquire power in Triskellian? We could easily play that into gold thanks to the Guilds, and political connection could come from the Lissemanteau's representatives in Triskellian (every Major and Minor house keeps at least a small manor there according to teh Gazetteer. Not inclined to disagree.) Rosza is probably not the official house rep for a number of reasons.
I've updated her motto and goal on her character sheet last night, thinking similarly.
Rosza is certainly not a Lissemanteau representative. Shes too young and inexperienced, in semi-exile from her own house, and much too much of a loose cannon. Of course, that doesn't mean the House can't make use of her...
Younger nobility turned troublemakers are almost a disposable resource in tales of court intrigue.
...Rosza certainly has a bit of that attitude in regard to her coterie.
Addendum:
Another of the early Guillaume comments noted an extant bond between his family and Rosza's. So if the de Vieuxponts are a "greater" House via the Lissemanteau bloodline, there might be a hereditary treaty/relationship between the de Vieuxponts and the Laurraines, with the Laurraines being hereditary retainers to the de Vieuxponts. So just as Rosza is the youngest of the de Vieuxpont bloodline, Guillaume is likely the youngest (or at least third in line) of the Larraine, and his father is likely an aide to Leon... and his eldest brother and eldest sister likewise attached to Rosza's siblings.
Calabrian politics don't really make a distinction further than Major and Minor Houses. If the Laurraine family serves the de Vieuxponts, they're likely only Nobility via their connection to the Lissemanteau, which is a tenuous position to be in at best.
The way I see it, there could be plenty of different families making up the House of Lissemanteau (there's certainly historical precedent for it), with the most senior family at the top of the heap actually claiming the House name for their own. Rosza and Guillaume could be part of two different families in the same House, with one being lower on the totem pole than the other.
Of course, that would require Guillaume being a weasel, though I'm certainly not above Rule 0'ing that and saying the Lissemanteau includes both weasels and ferrets. Are there actually any ferret nobility in the books? I don't think so...
Calabrian politics don't really make a distinction further than Major and Minor Houses. If the Laurraine family serves the de Vieuxponts, they're likely only Nobility via their connection to the Lissemanteau, which is a tenuous position to be in at best.
The way I see it, there could be plenty of different families making up the House of Lissemanteau (there's certainly historical precedent for it), with the most senior family at the top of the heap actually claiming the House name for their own. Rosza and Guillaume could be part of two different families in the same House, with one being lower on the totem pole than the other.
That's roughly what I meant by the greater/lesser thing...Where they stood with regard to each other in the grand scheme of things.
Of course, that would require Guillaume being a weasel, though I'm certainly not above Rule 0'ing that and saying the Lissemanteau includes both weasels and ferrets. Are there actually any ferret nobility in the books? I don't think so...
It may be that the ermines are the 'noblest blood', (ermine being traditionally associated with royalty in terms of the fur trade, at least. XD ) but that there have been diverse marriages and there are now a variety of weasel-kind in the region and in the 'extended family', but all the powerful families are ermine (or at least ermine in tracing lineage, with few non-ermine marriages and those unimportant to the bloodline)?
Just a heads up to people. I was planning on having the game post up this morning, but last night I was feeling pretty darn terrible so I didn't get everything done for our first outing. Assuming nothing else goes terribly awry, we'll be starting either late tonight or tomorrow morning.
Any last minute questions before we begin?
Or I could have a sudden burst of brainpower and get everything but the number-crunching done with already. Huh.
Game thread incoming.
I'm gonna keep us at the standard level. It just feels right. The first adventure or two won't be particularly long though, so you should be well on your way to being experienced folk by the time they're done with.
Gameplay thread posted. Check the tab at the top of the array. ;)
Dice rolls: here or in the Gameplay forum? Presumably spoilered if there. Any other specifics of how you want things handled or formatted?
Keep dice rolls in the Gameplay thread, please. I don't really see a need to spoiler tag them honestly. Offsetting them with OOC text or just the green dice text is enough, and we'd all see everyone's rolls at a game table anyway.
Other specifics...um, put the gameplay terms of your actions in OOC text underneath your main post body so I know what's going on at a glance. Other than that I think we'll be fine as we go along. Still not sure how to handle interrupts via PbP though.
Keep dice rolls in the Gameplay thread, please. I don't really see a need to spoiler tag them honestly. Offsetting them with OOC text or just the green dice text is enough, and we'd all see everyone's rolls at a game table anyway.
Other specifics...um, put the gameplay terms of your actions in OOC text underneath your main post body so I know what's going on at a glance. Other than that I think we'll be fine as we go along. Still not sure how to handle interrupts via PbP though.
A statement of intent?
I.E. "Since I have focus this round, if X tries to do Y I will do Z."
That'd probably work best, though I could always call for interrupts for other things I suppose. Like "X is going to do blah blah and such. Does anyone with focus want to interrupt X?" That way people could switch their intent if necessary without backtracking.
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(Since I didn't see anything about the address "Madonna" in the Ironclaw Omnibus notes on Triskellian, I assumed it was rule zero on Ultrafennec's part and it occurred to me to run with the idea, so...I ran this by him before posting it here.)
A few words about Triskellian forms of civil address*:
As Triskellian was in the past ruled by a Don and established by the Rinaldi, it has taken on a somewhat Italian flavor in many regards, particularly having to do with propriety. Rather than Sir or Madam, nobility (and only nobility) are addressed as Signore and Madonna (although sometimes Signora, an even more archaic form is used). Many titles are also changed in the local argot, such as Duc and Duchessa, Conte and Contessa, or gentilhuomo and gentildonna. One of the learned class of scholars, lawyers or notaries may go by messer, while an artisan may be maestro or maestra. A degreed scholar is a dottore or dottora, and a high clergyman may be known as a monsignore, while lesser priests are likely to be referred to by the more humble padre or don. Poveruomo (poor-man) is also a legitimate form of address, particularly among the penitents of S'Allumer, who may consider humility and vows of poverty respectable.
* Based on notes from Cohen and Vance's book, Daily Life in Renaissance Italy
Another little assumption I'm making, if UF will permit:
As riding-critters in the corebook are lizards, I'm going to assume that most other stock are (including poultry-sized reptiles rather than chickens, because we do have intelligent birds in Ironclaw). There's probably some kind of lizard that is making the transition between scales and fur and is sheared and carded for its 'wool'.
Yes, piddly details, details, details but I find them helpful in imagining the setting.
I don't know UF's feelings about such things but I rather like it when everyone is kind of pitching in their own little tidbits and ideas and details. :)
I'm totally cool with people making up details for the world along with me!
Just realized I forgot to bold spoken text in my last post, and now it's too late and the forum won't let me edit it. Ooops!
Iz cool, just do your best to remember it. As we've already seen, I don't always remember to put all the necessary tags in there either.
I'm going to start doing "arrival" posts for the people already on the move here in a bit.
Before we get into any sticky situations, are there any rules questions people need/want cleared up? I realize the book doesn't have the greatest of editing, and there's a lot left up to me as the Host in this system, so ask away.
Thirdly, I hear there's a Maptools plugin for Ironclaw on the official forum somewhere, so I'm going to check it out and hope that I can make some actual maps for combat and everything else where positioning is important.
Sorry folks, busy, BUSY day and tomorrow will be another one. Half-awake, half-assed post.
Actually, the running joke as I have heard it is that giant (cow-sized)spiders are used for wool.
Or maybe they're just playing with an arachnophobe.
From what I've seen, the standard difficulty for things like initiative and soaking damage is 3. Is this correct?
Depends on what you mean specifically. 3 is the standard number you need to beat on a die to earn a success, and since most tasks only require the one success, I suppose you could phrase it like that. As long as you get a 4 or better on a given die, it's a success (against standard difficulty).
The full dice rules start on page 110, and I found them fairly clear. Recommend reading them through a few times to be sure though.
And now everyone's in the same room together! Take a moment to describe your characters for the benefit of everyone that didn't read spoilers that weren't theirs (unless everybody read each others posts lol), react to Cedric's statements, the usual routine.
Quinn, you may wish to reconsider pr edit your post.
While it's very Renaissance-festival to call everyone 'my lord' and 'my lady', in IC if you don't have the Noble Gift as part of your character sheet, your character is NOT 'Lady'.
(P.S., if you read back in my stupidly long post, Guillaume introduced both himself and Rosza. Lengthily. Sorry if it gets lost in the paragraphs. Look for the bold text.)
She simply returned the introductions in her formal fashion(Her asking for your name is a habit cause one generally is more formal with introductions where she is from, feel free to ic comment),
She is not recognized as a noble here in Calabria because she is from foreign lands, though she still sees herself as one.(would have taken the Noble gift but somehow I missed that there was one, this is why I dislike pdfs)
And no she doesn't go around calling everyone my Lady and such all the time, just during introductions and formal situations.
The Noble gift wouldn't have been appropriate for your character right now anyway Quinn, since nobody in Calabria recognizes the Zhonggese as anything but enigmatic, potentially dangerous foreigners.
Now on the other hand if you make connections here and can prove that you're somehow above the common people of the isle, you may be able to take the Noble Gift and be recognized, though you're still foreign which is a bit of an awkward thing in Calabria going by the books.
Your introduction's fine by my book too. An interesting little custom, I'll be sure to use it later on. ;)
I hope Ms. de Vieuxpont does not mind my borrowing of her Ally Guillaume. He makes such a convenient mouthpiece at times.
I hope Ms. de Vieuxpont does not mind my borrowing of her Ally Guillaume. He makes such a convenient mouthpiece at times.
Absolutely not!!! I expected that we both would play him dependent on the situation. I have thus far only been playing him inasmuch as it was expedient due to first, isolation, and second, making everything into one 'entry post' to get stuff going faster. But yes, I fully expect you will use him as an NPC on a regular basis.
In fact I hope you will, because while I need the writing and dialog practice, many times of day I have time for a quick note (like this) but not to ponder "How would the dialog go?" and write these long bits...
All good then. Hopefully I can match your tone of him and he doesn't get inconsistent.
A weasel that behaves inconsistently from one moment to the next? SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!
And speaking of behavior... *Buckles down and begins writing up more Rosza*
This is going to sound terribly finicky, but if players could group and tag their rolls according to where their dice are coming from, that would be great for me to learn the system quicker. Like...let's say we've got a random person who's got a roll that allows his Species and Career dice for the sake of argument.
Similarly with each bonus die you can claim, please mark it out separately for each one of those instances so I know where each of them's coming from. I'll do you guys the same courtesy.
And Natalia joins in the fun of teasing Guillaume.
Poor lad. One must do terrible things when they're stuck in....THE FRIEND ZONE.
/Rod Serling.