DM Greg's Red Hand of Doom

Game Master Algar Lysandris

Starting at 4th level you all had 5k gp to spend on equipment.

Quick cash loot count has the Party gained 63k gp adventuring (give or take around a few hundred gp)

Wealth for a level 5 should be 9k and 13k for a level 6 (Away from books so using online 3.5 table)

So (63 000 / 5) + 5 000 => 17 000 gp So above 30% the "normal" level...

I'm wasn't actually being serious. But I would point out that RHOD is frontloaded on wealth. Also our party is likely going to be blowing through a lot more of it than a normal group due to the lack of an arcane caster and needing to rely on more potions/healing to win the fight.

Though it would be awesome if we could get some bad guys wielding weapons or using items that we are actually likely to keep/use.
Fact of the matter is we need to earn/find double the gold value in items in order to keep up with the expected curve if we need to sell everything in town and hope there is something actually usable there.
It is also much more satisfying in my mind to wield the weapon pried from the cooling corpse of an enemy champion than having to scrimp and save every last set of banded mail from every single ambush to feel like we can keep up.

My bad... writing is a poor means to convey humour.

Itemization has always been a froblem with Published adventure. Normally the mod wtiters give out object for Melee / divine / arcane / Wounderous.

Party dynamics is left up to the players... (from a DM's perspective i am running the official module as is.)

Most of the good and valuable items have a personal relationship with the adventurers:

The magical banded mail and short sword were gained after a very hard fight just before entering Drelin's ferry. Or the gantlets / bastard sword / magical mitrhal shirt from Vraath Keep or the Magical Breast plate / wand of Magic Missle earned at Skull bridge.

I'll be waiting until tomorrow night and then will bot marru

Urg. Sorry. Been exhausted lately.

The reason I moved into the fog like I did was that I would be able to use it for concealment. that is to say 20% miss chance. Does that apply?

Yes that's one of the reason I cast this spell :)

indeed 20% for you to roll in case of hits.

To determine whether your target has concealment from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that provides concealment, the target has concealment.

When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has concealment if his space is entirely within an effect that grants concealment. When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you use the rules for determining concealment from ranged attacks.

In addition, some magical effects provide concealment against all attacks, regardless of whether any intervening concealment exists.

link

Bold is mine

So standing within the edge of the fog/mist and attacking a target outside of the fog, either with melee or range, does not impart a 20% miss chance, but the target would suffer a 20% miss chance for attacking into the fog.

This is just one part of the tactical advantage things like fogs/mists/clouds provide when used.

Marru the 20% concealment starts after 5ft away. If the creature is right next to you there is no concealment. And no Miss Chance on attacks. You are currently in J-49. In order to flank you would need to be in I-39. where do you wish to 5 foot step still K-47 it would leave you away from the creature ?

Isn't... isn't that exactly what I wrote? (Except for the concealment, part, because I was attacking into the fog.)

I'm really trying to understand (and play with) how you understand the rules, but I'm missing something.

Here's my breakdown, and understanding.

Previously, I couldn't stealth because I had no concealment. Got it. No problem. (I would likely have made a different move, but "oh well".)

So, this time Fhi'do is currently adjacent to him, no concealment.

Okay, so I'll 5 ft. step away to K-47, which means I get concealment (I am not in the fog, but he is, and there is fog in a corner between the two of us). Because I get concealment now that I'm more than 5 ft. away, I "stealth mode activate", then move around to flank to I-49.

(Incidentally, I believe this should also allow me to avoid an AoO, though I'm not certain how you'd rule it.)

Flanking sets up position to deny DEX modifier, and sets up for sneak attacks whether or not I was successful at stealthing. While flanking, I'm no longer hidden, but it doesn't matter - I've successfully moved into position by this point.

I'll accept an error where it's pointed out, but I'd like to understand what you're seeing and ruling v. what I'm seeing and what the differences are.

In the last several posts, I feel like I'm making rather severe tactical errors because I don't understand what you expect of me, game-rules-wise. Thus I'm making bad actions due to player misunderstanding rather than actual character misunderstanding.

I'm not trying to fight your rulings, just understand them. Thanks!

Quick answer:

From the spell:

The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target).

-----
My understainding is that the conceilment apply 5feet away and beyound.

Is you are in base contact in or out of the fog then the 20% / total conceilment doesn't apply

---
Marrus' action: Round 8: Hoisting his heavy flail, he quietly slides around to flank (5ft. step K-47, Hide: 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (14) + 19 = 33, Move Silently: 1d20 + 15 ⇒ (20) + 15 = 35, starting from concealment due to the fog, ending at I-49) and then swings for the goblin between him and Borum!.

I had you at the end of round 7 at J-46.

you action mentioned a 5ft step (or at least is what is confusing me and therefore prompting my question as to your movement. So that i can "close" this part of the round)

Is you are making a move action you just need to tell me what path you are taking if it involves some risque. If it doesn't then just classify like this

Marru moves from his starting position to outside the fig hiding during his move (skill check rolled etc) and finishing in (I49) flanking position with the hobgoblin.

(or just a classic: Move action from X to Y / standard attack from flanking)

Aoo: yup if you have sufficient movement (reduced stealth movement for example) by travelling this path: K47->K48->K49->J50->I49 No aoo is due.

If I am adjacent to someone, am I considered 5 ft. away? If so, I should be able to stealth with concealment. If not (which was what I was thinking you were saying), that is why I wanted to step out at all. I did not add the -5 penalty for moving at my full speed (my apologies! I just forgot to write that! Arg!), but if it's too confusing, I'll just move into flanking position and attack however I can the most directly. I'm not really sure where I am or why I'm there anymore, so, however Fi'dho can get to flanking, and attack, that's what I'm doing. Ignore anything else.

Round 8
Move to flank avoiding aoo and attacking target while flanking.
Got it i'll imput the results in the morning as i am going out for the evening

I can play with is interpetation of Obscuring Mist, but I totally disagree with it.

If the terms "adjacent" and "5' away" are not the same, then that opens numerous issues and concerns. By your interpetation of the obscuring mist spell, the resulting scenario is as illustrated.

Character | 5' square (0% miss chance) | 10' square (20% miss chance) | 15'+ square (50% miss chance)

My interpetation of the spell would be illustrated as:

Character | 5' square (20% miss chance) | 10'+ square (50% miss chance)

My interpetation is consistant with the defintion of concealment, obscuring mist/fogs, and numerous related posts/questions on the internet.

Obscuring Mist/Fog Cloud Ambiguity
Concealment at the boundary of Oscuring Mist
Obscuring Mist Concealment: 5 feet away or 5 Feet away
Obscuring mist clarifiation
Obscuring mist wording
Edge of Obscuring Mist

What is amusing is that Obscuring mist is ambiguous but Fog Cloud (1 spell level up) does exactly what you are thinking obscuring mist does Borrum.
It seems strange that Obscuring mist would be one level lower and a different spell with so few differences.

@DM Greg :
Can I do that as a full round action :
Strike with my flail with two hands
free action : take out a hand
attack with my claw as a secondary natural attack
free action : take back my flail two handed.
?

Away from books but from the top of my head i don't see any reason why you can't

Anyone else view on this?

*shrug*
I can't recall the particular rules that prevent it but I feel like I remember it being called out as not possible somewhere.
I know that bites can work like that though. Also stuff like extra arms, Talons, wing buffets and other nonsense can work. That -5 penalty for secondary nat attack hurts though.

A spell to consider once you hit L6 and get cleric 5 would be girallion's blessing. turns you into a natural attack beast with 4 arms. Unfortunately it ends up being an Either/Or situation with normal or natural when cast but 4 claws+ rend is nasty.
Really fun once you stack stuff like Divine favor with it.

Is very cheesy, that's why in my games, as a GM, I don't allow this. But it never hurts to ask !

For simplicity's sake (and my head) lets not allow it :)

Hello to all i am once again going on a longer off piste ski trip from the 20th to the 29th. i will not be able to post at all.

So feel Free to bot me.

Yay! We get to bot the DM. I say we bot him so that we defeat the enemy army with a paperclip.

Oh I know, we befriend one of the defeated manticore and it becomes our plucky sidekick.

Also most sure that Blade bearer is ultra-dead.

Heh. Two "round 8" posts. Alas, for limited time and copy/pasting. :)

The rest of the "day" will be unevent full.

Welcome to Level 6 for everyone !

Galdamor took a level of Ordained Champion.
So he will still not have spell of 3d level.

Rigo's taking another warlock level.

Looks like I forgot to update my HP last time I leveled. I should be at 30, not 22, after leveling.

Done leveling!

... fighters are frighteningly plain...

I did finally get rid of my non-feat and replace it with an actual one, so there's that. :)

EDIT: I'm also really happy that every attack roll against Fi'dho has really sucked during this combat. The highest was, I think, 12. :D

I'm looking for a Combat Feat... do you have a suggestion ?

EDIT : Galdamor was hit once for 10 damages. Nothing a Faith Healing could not cure :P

yup my rolling wasn't that good considering all those d20 i had

I haven't done 3.5 in so long, I'm trying to remember without going and opening a book. It's feats at 1, 3, 6, 9, 12? Not 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11?

@Rigo Yes it is, but thanks to my Prestige Class, I have the choice between an additionnal domain or a feat. I took the feat.

Borrum's Level 6 Adj

Class: Fighter +1
HP: +6 (1/2 HD+1)
BAB: +1 (fighter)[+6/+1
- Adj all attacks +1 to hit and add intertive attacks
- Adj grapple +1
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +1
Skills: Intimidate +1, Swim +1
Feats: Improved Toughness (Complete Warrior), Heavy Armor Optimization (Races of Stone)
- Additional +6 Hp
- Reduce ACP by 1, increase Armor bonus by 1

@Galdamor: Intimidating Strike (PH2), Law or War Devotion (can select it multiple times) (CC), Heavy Armor Optimization (RoS)

Intimidating strike is good, but I don't have the 4 ranks in Intimidate to take it (even better as I've planned to take Dread Tyranny (RoD) on my next level ).

Heavy Armor Optimization is also a good choice.

druid level 6. Natural spell and 2xday uses of wild shape.
Other sundry stuff as well.

If I think of a feat Galdamor I'll make sue to tell you.

I'm going to try for a third Ape, third times the charm and all.
Mountain Lion and Dire bat are the runner up options if that just flat out won't work.

So I cleaned up the loot list by hiding items we have already divided up. That left us with the items we buried and the items we have from the raids and 1st wave on Drelin's Ferry. I could not find in the game play thread or discussion thread where these items where handed out to anyone. If they were, I can update the list.

New Items

• Potion of CMW
  
• Scroll of Fly
  
• Scroll of Haste
  
• Scroll of Invisibility
  
• Short Sword +1 x4ea
  

I would suggest Galdamor, Swirls Mist, Fi'dho, and Borrum each carry a +1 Short sword, so we have a magical weapon each if we need it. Then Rigo carry the three scrolls.

Borrum is down to 2 potions of CLWs, so I would like him to get the potion, unless someone else doesn't have a potion on them. Please let me know.

Lastly, Swirls Mist and talked a bit about sunder and feat progression. What is your opinion on Borrum beginning to sunder items? I was planning on focusing on feat progression to continue raising Borrum's AC.

@GM Greg: I need to make a change to Borrum's level 8 update, dependent on how ppl respond to the question about sunder.

Galdamor will take Domination as his third domain and loose the Law Domain to gain a combat feat.

@Borrum I think to take the armor feat to enhance Galdamor defenses (not so much HP).
Galdamor don't need a magic weapon as he could now cast magic weapon spontaneously and as a cleric is not proficient with short sword.
As for sundering weapon or other piece of equipment you have Galdamor's blessing.

As a druid I don't believe I am proficient in short sword so if I'm using it things are really dire. But ill hold onto it as we have already mined this town of all useful gear.

I'm small. How does that affect me with the short sword? (Switching between editions, and I don't remember all the fiddly bits right now.)

In my memory you can use it as a longsword.

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

I mainly handed them out to people so that we had a magical weapon incase the situation required it. That and I didn't care to carry them all. But if you don't want to carry one in case of an emergency, Borrum will carry them.

If we ever get to a sizable community again, we maybe able to haggle a trade for more appropriate items for each of us.

I remember their being a passage that alters that rule in the complete warrior. Will look once I get home. Mechanics wise the real difference for those kind of weapons would be in the haft/handle. Swirls mist has wood shape so changing the grip and sizing to fit a small humanoid ought not to be very hard.

If my little jars of Sand proliferate we should be able to get in contact with higher level merchants in the bigger towns, given some warning and a priority order from their leader we could likely have weapons prepared for us and have Swirls Mist go pick them up with his speedy hawk form. That is if they don't have something we can use already. I can only assume that the leaders of the lion guard would want to outfit the hero's of Drellins ferry so they don't die.
Still say ripping useful upgrades from the hands of dead red hand champions is more fun in my mind but we can play the money game with our fantasy telephone spell if necessary.

So everyone ready to move out to the North Road?

Only thing I found in the Complete Warrior was the feat Monkey Grip.
I don't think it is worth taking a feat for an emergency weapon. A Medium sized short sword is one-handed weapon for a Small character, so you could not use it in the off hand, would take a -2 attack penalty and would do damage as a Medium weapon (1d6).

Monkey Grip [General]

You are able to use a larger weapon than other people your size.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can use melee weapons one size categoru large than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort it takes you to use the weapon does not change. For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed weapon for a Large creature) is considered a two-handed weapon for a Medium creature that does not have this feat. For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is still considered a one-handed weapon. You can wield a larger light weapon as a light weapon, or a larger tow-handed weapon in two hands. You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off hand, and you cannot use this feat with a double weapon.
Normal: You can use a melee weapon one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, and the amount of effort it takes io use the weapon increases. A larger light weapon is considered a one-handed weapon, a larger one-handed weapon is considered a two-handed weapon, and you cannot use a larger two-handed weapon at all.

Swirls mist is basically gone at this point. Yes moving ahead and going to do his ritual.
Going to try for one more ape because third times the charm and all.

I guess it was another book, might have been miniatures handbook or some splat book. Anyway I checked the rule compendium and there is no indication of a change in that one either.

Thanks for looking, guys. I have five oils of magic weapon - if you think it's a good idea, I'll stick with those, but if you think it's wiser, I'll hold onto one of the short swords. Either way! :)

(And yeah, I'm ready to go. :D)

if you have the carrying capacity, carry the short sword also. Single or less action to pull the short sword, compared to a move and standard to pull a vial and apply the oil, and leave you with no attack.

it is just a hold out weapon

Consider it done, then.

Hello to all,

i am back unfortunatly hurt with torn knee ligaments (and moral down the drain for the moment. MRI is scheduled in 10 days to get a better picture of the permanent damage).

Ready to resume gaming after catching up the thread

-----

Borrum you can make any change to your level 8 until we get into the next combat :)

@All: I have decided to take improved sunder as one of Borrum's feats.

Borrum's average damage with a 2-3 point power attack will be over 15.5 hp of damage, which will destroy most non-magical weapons and put a decent amount of damage on shields. If they don't have a weapon, then they cannot harm us as much.

Waraxe, Imp.Sunder, 2-handed, PA2: 1d20 + 13 + 4 + 4 - 2 ⇒ (14) + 13 + 4 + 4 - 2 = 33
Damage, Waraxe, PA2: 1d10 + 9 + 4 ⇒ (10) + 9 + 4 = 23 Avg=18.5

Waraxe, Imp.Sunder, 1-handed, PA3: 1d20 + 13 + 4 + 0 - 3 ⇒ (6) + 13 + 4 + 0 - 3 = 20
Damage, Waraxe, PA3: 1d10 + 7 + 3 ⇒ (6) + 7 + 3 = 16 Avg=15.5

Common Armor, Weapon and Shield Hardness and Hitpoints